Is there going to be a Cat in Spectre?

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,816
    "Hello Poooooooosee." I took it that way.

    I relish the "return" of Bond staples, it was always just a matter of time and I expected it to play out that way from 2006. Moneypenny. Q. That was part of the plan. MI6 not going in for exploding pens? Think about it, folks.

    There can't be an elimination game played with what came before, the homages are already a part of the established Bond film formula. And it's really unavoidable anyway at this point.

    This revived discussion really puts perspective to a lot of the complaints laid against the Craig Bond films.

  • Posts: 2,918
    I relish the "return" of Bond staples, it was always just a matter of time and I expected it to play out that way from 2006. Moneypenny. Q. That was part of the plan. MI6 not going in for exploding pens?

    Some Bond staples deserve to be left in the dust when they've outlived their purpose. That doesn't apply to Moneypenny or Q, who were reinvented capably for the Craig era. Blofeld wasn't. He drowned in a sea of camp and unimaginatively recycled tropes. And why does Blofeld even need that cat? It worked when we didn't have the character's face to look at. When we did, it made Blofeld look less threatening and more goofy. Peter Hunt had the good sense to put aside the trope in OHMSS--not coincidentally Blofeld's best outing after his face reveal.
    And the screenwriters can surely devise new gadgets instead of recycling exploding pens. They're paid to do that sort of thing.
    There can't be an elimination game played with what came before, the homages are already a part of the established Bond film formula. And it's really unavoidable anyway at this point.

    A modern Bond film needs to be fresh and relevant to a general audience, not the equivalent of a tribute band for nostalgists. And since the best Craig films (CR and SF) were not generically formulaic, why settle for the "established Bond film formula"? I want to see films as startling and exciting as FRWL and GF were to audiences in the 60s. Spectre failed because it made cliches out of the personal stories from the prior Craig films and lazily recycled tropes from earlier Bonds.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The cat wasn t totally absent in OHMSS. It had about as much screentime as it did in SP.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Revelator wrote: »
    -since Blofeld's face couldn't be seen, the cat gave the audience something visually interesting to look at while Blofeld spoke.

    What's so interesting about a cat?

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It gave Blofeld s hands something to do. He might as well have had a girlie on his knee, of course.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    If that is the case have him hold say, a baby Komodo Dragon. Or have him fiddle with a violet scented cachou.
  • Posts: 15,125
    It gave Blofeld s hands something to do. He might as well have had a girlie on his knee, of course.

    Actually I think Blofeld is pretty much impotent and his affection for his cat is an indication of this.

    In any case the cat was used sparingly in SP, as a nod to the cinematic character and in an original way, so I was quite happy with his presence.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It gave Blofeld s hands something to do. He might as well have had a girlie on his knee, of course.

    Actually I think Blofeld is pretty much impotent and his affection for his cat is an indication of this.

    In any case the cat was used sparingly in SP, as a nod to the cinematic character and in an original way, so I was quite happy with his presence.

    Well, Fleming's Blofeld was asexual.

  • Posts: 2,918
    The cat wasn't totally absent in OHMSS. It had about as much screentime as it did in SP.

    But the most prominent scene involves Blofeld tossing the cat aside when he hears Bond has escaped. Then he joins his team on skis. It's a rejection of the cat and what it stood for in YOLT's version of Blofeld.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Actually I think Blofeld is pretty much impotent and his affection for his cat is an indication of this.

    Not so. In TB Blofeld has no interest in sex, in OHMSS he has an evident sign of syphilis, in YOLT he's bumping uglies with Irma Bundt. Furthermore, it seems out of character for Blofeld to have affection for cute animals. The only beings he has affection for are ugly monsters like Irma.
    In any case the cat was used sparingly in SP, as a nod to the cinematic character and in an original way, so I was quite happy with his presence.

    Not original enough, and what's the point of nodding to an outmoded, cliched, campy, Austin Powers cliche of the character? The cat stands for Spectre's failure to make Blofeld a credible, modern villain. If Blofeld returns, I don't want to see that damn animal anywhere near him. All it does is make Blofeld into a stupid cartoon.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Maybe he could have a Siberian tiger next time, like Putin.
    PUTIN-TIGER.jpg
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    There's a long tradition in literature and art about cats and villains. Do you know Grimalkin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimalkin

    Of course remember Egyptians or... Disney movies!

    And what about this?

    3m01.jpg
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 2,918
    The tradition has become a little moth-eaten by now, and the cat-stroking mastermind trope has decayed into a cliche through overuse.

    Richelieu was a cat lover in real life, but even in his case it's possible to overdo the felines--his desk was overrun with frolicking kittens in the otherwise excellent 1921 film Les trois mousquetaires.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Maybe he could have a Siberian tiger next time, like Putin.
    PUTIN-TIGER.jpg
    Looks more like a leopard to me. It has spots, while tigers have stripes.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I couldn t find an actual picture of him with the tiger, but after some searching:
    2cb10ff557741bbe1999187c598c1dce--siberian-tiger-vladimir-putin.jpg
  • Posts: 2,918
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Revelator wrote: »
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
    And through manipulation has managed to install a moron puppet as U.S. President who does everything to destabilize the West, so MI6 is the world's last hope. But I'm sure that's going beyond "suspension of disbelief", isn't it?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
    And through manipulation has managed to install a moron puppet as U.S. President who does everything to destabilize the West, so MI6 is the world's last hope. But I'm sure that's going beyond "suspension of disbelief", isn't it?

    I am Putin s moron puppet here at MI6.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
    And through manipulation has managed to install a moron puppet as U.S. President who does everything to destabilize the West, so MI6 is the world's last hope. But I'm sure that's going beyond "suspension of disbelief", isn't it?

    I am Putin s moron puppet here at MI6.
    So how are you working toward destabilizing MI6?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mattjoes wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Revelator wrote: »
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
    And through manipulation has managed to install a moron puppet as U.S. President who does everything to destabilize the West, so MI6 is the world's last hope. But I'm sure that's going beyond "suspension of disbelief", isn't it?

    I am Putin s moron puppet here at MI6.
    So how are you working toward destabilizing MI6?

    Little by little, like a vaporizing drop of water daily building mass. A stormcloud is coming.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    We have people everywhere.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,588
    Revelator wrote: »
    Not a bad idea for the next Bond film: a vain, kleptocratic, murderous Russian supervillain who collects big cats to flatter his ego.
    I am reminded of one Mexican drug lord who got busted years back. I think we talked about it here. Among the seized cache were gold plated AK's, handguns encrusted in solid gold, stolen art, as well as flipping lions!
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I think it should be revealed that Blofelds white cat is the mastermind of Spectre.
    Blofeld is merely a puppet. Hopefully that is Boyle and Hodge's great idea. It would neatly tie the story to Spectre. If it could be revealed that the cat once belonged to Vesper or M (Judi Dench) it would really be the story arc that Craig's Bond has been trying to achieve.
    *In the chance that anyone believes this, I wish to point out I'm joking...or am I.*
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Benny wrote: »
    I think it should be revealed that Blofelds white cat is the mastermind of Spectre.
    Blofeld is merely a puppet. Hopefully that is Boyle and Hodge's great idea. It would neatly tie the story to Spectre. If it could be revealed that the cat once belonged to Vesper or M (Judi Dench) it would really be the story arc that Craig's Bond has been trying to achieve.
    *In the chance that anyone believes this, I wish to point out I'm joking...or am I.*

    At this point, I wouldn't put it past EON.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 15,125
    @Revelator only in OHMSS is there any sign of an active sex life for Blofeld and we have no idea of the circumstances for him catching syphilis. It is also very possible that he's in a platonic relationship with Irma Bunt. Or at least there's no indication that they are sexually active or sexually attracted to one another. Cats have represented in folklore devilry, witchcraft, cruelty, etc. All good reasons to have one as Blofeld's pet and totem animal. As for being spoofed, name me one Bond trope that has never been parodied.

    And I think you're reading too much OHMSS' cat scene. It was getting old and that's probably why they kept it short but they still had one.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    . Cats have represented in folklore devilry, witchcraft, cruelty, etc.

    Yes, but mainly black cats.
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnxW11r-VpTOMG8eS0LkjswuUf16acnT4e-26NBg9Lmr5aiX9Q
  • Posts: 15,125
    Ludovico wrote: »
    . Cats have represented in folklore devilry, witchcraft, cruelty, etc.

    Yes, but mainly black cats.
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnxW11r-VpTOMG8eS0LkjswuUf16acnT4e-26NBg9Lmr5aiX9Q

    That's a cat?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That s the idea.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 2,918
    QBranch wrote: »
    I am reminded of one Mexican drug lord who got busted years back. I think we talked about it here. Among the seized cache were gold plated AK's, handguns encrusted in solid gold, stolen art, as well as flipping lions!

    And Pablo Escobar owned several hippos, which have now escaped and infested the waters of Columbia.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    only in OHMSS is there any sign of an active sex life for Blofeld and we have no idea of the circumstances for him catching syphilis.

    Do you require an origin scene for his tertiary syphilis? I think it's much creepier for Fleming to let us wonder. And I think it's pretty clear in YOLT (Bond and Tiger are clearly convinced) that he is very involved with Irma Bundt and has taken her as his consort. If it was any clearer the reader would need a barf bag.
    Cats have represented in folklore devilry, witchcraft, cruelty, etc. All good reasons to have one as Blofeld's pet and totem animal.

    No, all too obvious reasons. And once again, it out of character for Blofeld to show any care or consideration for animals. Bond is the one who gets upset about fish, not his villains.
    As for being spoofed, name me one Bond trope that has never been parodied.

    Good rule of thumb--if it appeared in Austin Powers, it's well past the sell-by date.
    And I think you're reading too much OHMSS' cat scene. It was getting old and that's probably why they kept it short but they still had one.

    Hardly. The most memorable scene with the cat is of Blofeld tossing it aside in order to join his men on skis on pursuit of Bond. Nothing in a film like this is there randomly. Remember that Peter Hunt disliked Donald Pleasance's Blofeld for being sedentary and moving badly. Hunt's Blofeld would be the opposite, and that meant putting aside the most obvious sign of sedentariness--that damned cat.

    And of course Fleming had no need for a trope that dated back to Cardinal Richelieu. His Blofeld didn't need cuddly pets to be scary:
    The forehead was serrated with wrinkles above a nose that, while the files said it should be short and squat, was aquiline and, round the right nostril, eaten away, poor chap, by what looked like the badge of tertiary syphilis. The eyes? Well, there might be something there if one could see them, but they were only rather frightening dark-green pools. The Count wore, presumably against the truly dangerous sun at these altitudes, dark-green tinted contact lenses.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,816
    Benny wrote: »
    I think it should be revealed that Blofelds white cat is the mastermind of Spectre.
    Blofeld is merely a puppet. Hopefully that is Boyle and Hodge's great idea. It would neatly tie the story to Spectre. If it could be revealed that the cat once belonged to Vesper or M (Judi Dench) it would really be the story arc that Craig's Bond has been trying to achieve.
    *In the chance that anyone believes this, I wish to point out I'm joking...or am I.*

    Thanks for the clarity, @Benny. I was going to suggest they read the book.
    51pVkxY%2BacL._SX317_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
  • Posts: 15,125
    @Revelator I never said we needed any specific details about how Blofeld got syphilis. He must have been sexually active between TV (where it is stated he isn't) and OHMSS. To which extent we don't know. How clear is it that Blofeld and Irma Bunt have sex and are not platonic? Not to appeal to authority but Umberto Eco agrees with me on the nature of their relationship.

    Every aspect of Bond has been parodied by Austin Powers. Heck the cat was parodied in DAF! No Fleming didn't need such trope, but using visual short cuts has been a constant in the movies. And I'm fine with too obvious association. Dr No is an evil Chinese man and I don't mind either.
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