Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,206
    No doubt perceiving chemistry between two performers is subjective.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2022 Posts: 1,711
    talos7 wrote: »
    No doubt perceiving chemistry between two performers is subjective.

    It is definitely subjective, but I definitely agree. I thought the chemistry with Lea in NTTD was much stronger than the "two good actors" I saw in CR. But while it's of a different type given the nature of the screen relationship, I thought Craig's chemistry with Olga in QOS was the strongest of all.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't Craig have final approval of his Bondgirls? He was certainly reported as having insisted on Eva Green and their chemistry was off the scale, so it's not as if he's unaware of that aspect. If Dan had the final say, he'd hardly have agreed on Lea Seydoux if he thought they weren't a good match, would he?

    I guess this is in the eye of the beholder as I never really saw all this apparent chemistry with Green. They acted well together, but they're good actors. I actually got more vibes of a genuine adult relationship from the beginning of NTTD with Seydoux.
    I still think Green was miscast, good though she is.

    That is controversial!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2022 Posts: 16,382
    I don't know if I'd call it chemistry, but I believed the passion between him and Solange and also with Monica Belluci. It's not exactly a hugely controversial view, but I'd like to have had Belluci play the lead with him in a film.
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Didn't Craig have final approval of his Bondgirls? He was certainly reported as having insisted on Eva Green and their chemistry was off the scale, so it's not as if he's unaware of that aspect. If Dan had the final say, he'd hardly have agreed on Lea Seydoux if he thought they weren't a good match, would he?

    I guess this is in the eye of the beholder as I never really saw all this apparent chemistry with Green. They acted well together, but they're good actors. I actually got more vibes of a genuine adult relationship from the beginning of NTTD with Seydoux.
    I still think Green was miscast, good though she is.

    That is controversial!

    What, that Green was miscast? Yeah, I think she is. For one thing she's supposed to be a British Treasury agent, and she clearly ain't! :) But beyond that she's given that sparkling repartee scene on the train and it's been written for a Diana Rigg type, but that's just not her. The later scenes towards the end suit her more, but I can certainly imagine other actors being more suited to the role overall.
  • Posts: 4,139
    Y'know, I must admit, as much as I like Eva Green and believe her Vesper is an improvement on the novel's character, I actually don't disagree. Compared to Bond girls such as Tracy and Octopussy in the films, I never got the sense she was especially the love of Bond's life. Maybe a different actress would have had a different impression on me.

    Then again, I kind of feel that about the novel's Vesper too. She's just a bit too naive. Bond is depicted as being a younger, seemingly more arrogant and impulsive man than he is in later books too. It makes sense he'd throw in the towel after a particularly bad mission and want to settle down with the first girl he finds. Of course, what happens later is particularly tragic and has that long lasting impact on him, but it's debatable whether the relationship would have panned out if Vesper hadn't have committed suicide.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yet when some interviewer suggested to Craig that he'd had 'great chemistry' with Eva Green, Dan enthusiastically agreed. So there! ;)
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited July 2022 Posts: 693
    Reading the comment sections of videos like this is very telling. Lots of angst over BB and MGW, plus skepticism about the possibility of even making any more Bond movies after NTTD. Many comments along the lines of "Bone is done, let him rest in peace."

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the producers really underestimated how much damage NTTD would do to the franchise, especially if they didn't actually intend it to be the last Bond movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    007HallY wrote: »
    Y'know, I must admit, as much as I like Eva Green and believe her Vesper is an improvement on the novel's character, I actually don't disagree. Compared to Bond girls such as Tracy and Octopussy in the films, I never got the sense she was especially the love of Bond's life. Maybe a different actress would have had a different impression on me.

    Then again, I kind of feel that about the novel's Vesper too. She's just a bit too naive. Bond is depicted as being a younger, seemingly more arrogant and impulsive man than he is in later books too. It makes sense he'd throw in the towel after a particularly bad mission and want to settle down with the first girl he finds. Of course, what happens later is particularly tragic and has that long lasting impact on him, but it's debatable whether the relationship would have panned out if Vesper hadn't have committed suicide.

    That's a really good observation about whether he just went for the first girl after his bad mission; yes you may well be right.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2022 Posts: 8,183
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Reading the comment sections of videos like this is very telling. Lots of angst over BB and MGW, plus skepticism about the possibility of even making any more Bond movies after NTTD. Many comments along the lines of "Bone is done, let him rest in peace."

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the producers really underestimated how much damage NTTD would do to the franchise, especially if they didn't actually intend it to be the last Bond movie.

    Doom and glooming losers don’t have a say.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    Oh the complaints are loud and frequent, not a new phenomenon. Familiar experience.

    @Since62 your comment a few pages back painted the picture. I'm enjoying the present and looking forward to what the future brings. The franchise is in quite a strong place is my thinking.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2022 Posts: 3,789
    You know guys, as much as really liked Craig for this scene, but seems he's not coming back.

    I'd liked to see the scene in FRWL novel where a thick paperback book and a cigarette case saved Bond's life when Red Grant shot him, but I have no idea who can fit this scene if looking at those actors strongly considered for the role.
  • edited July 2022 Posts: 4,139
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    You know guys, as much as really liked Craig for this scene, but seems he's not coming back.

    I'd liked to see the scene in FRWL novel where a thick paperback book and a cigarette case saved Bond's life when Red Grant shot him, but I have no idea who can fit this scene if looking at those actors strongly considered for the role.

    It's a bit of a cliche now. I suspect it was in Fleming's day too, but the reason why it kind of works (at least for me) is exactly because it's such a silly, implausible idea rendered realistically. Instead of just the cigarette case or the book being in our hero's pocket all along, we actually read Bond's thoughts/him coming up with the plan, the descriptions of him taking these items and slipping them into his pocket etc. Fleming describes the pain Bond feels in his ribs, the fact that he feels the hot lead against his chest. I feel for such an idea to work there'd have to be a similar kind of tension and realism injected into the scene. It'd be unlikely to be a cigarette case nowadays so some sort of alternative object would have to be foreshadowed. It would be cool to see played out onscreen though.

    As for who could play it... well, I don't know. Then again I'm of the opinion that anyone supposedly 'strongly considered' for the role at the moment by the press are unlikely to actually get the part.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2022 Posts: 16,382
    I'm not sure we'd buy it nowadays would we? It is a bit silly :)

    I would have quite liked if he'd be given a gadget watch to be worn as a knuckle duster - like it turns into a high powered taser or something when he punches someone with it. Just as a nice nod to Fleming's idea that you could use a watch as a knuckle duster (I realise it was supposed to be featured in CR in that way -and can still be glimpsed).
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 2022 Posts: 3,789
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm not sure we'd buy it nowadays would we? It is a bit silly :)

    I would have quite liked if he'd be given a gadget watch to be worn as a knuckle duster - like it turns into a high powered taser or something when he punches someone with it. Just as a nice nod to Fleming's idea that you could use a watch as a knuckle duster (I realise it was supposed to be featured in CR in that way -and can still be glimpsed).

    But would it also knuckle Bond's hand too?

    It's actually a coincidence as I'm looking for that particular scene in CR, then you've mentioned it here.

    About that FRWL scene, yes it would be a bit fun at least, that we thought that Bond was dead because he's shot, but it's wrong, he's saved by something that he puts at his chest.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm not sure we'd buy it nowadays would we? It is a bit silly :)

    I would have quite liked if he'd be given a gadget watch to be worn as a knuckle duster - like it turns into a high powered taser or something when he punches someone with it. Just as a nice nod to Fleming's idea that you could use a watch as a knuckle duster (I realise it was supposed to be featured in CR in that way -and can still be glimpsed).

    I had an idea for future Bond gadgets where he has a bunch of modern technological equipment that doubles as low-tech weaponry. His phone has a shiv in it. His earpiece is a small explosive. So a reversal of the usual pattern: the hidden function is extremely old-fashioned.

    The earpiece bomb is particularly tidy because he can blow something up with it, and then we're rid of the spy movie-ruining communication gimmick once and for all!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm not sure we'd buy it nowadays would we? It is a bit silly :)

    I would have quite liked if he'd be given a gadget watch to be worn as a knuckle duster - like it turns into a high powered taser or something when he punches someone with it. Just as a nice nod to Fleming's idea that you could use a watch as a knuckle duster (I realise it was supposed to be featured in CR in that way -and can still be glimpsed).

    But would it also knuckle Bond's hand too?

    Well yeah, that's why I think it would be good for it to be a specially-designed gadget: to explain how it doesn't break his fingers! :D
  • DB5MNDB5MN USA
    Posts: 47
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Reading the comment sections of videos like this is very telling. Lots of angst over BB and MGW, plus skepticism about the possibility of even making any more Bond movies after NTTD. Many comments along the lines of "Bone is done, let him rest in peace."

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think the producers really underestimated how much damage NTTD would do to the franchise, especially if they didn't actually intend it to be the last Bond movie.

    I would agree with this take I have similar frustration
  • Posts: 1,859
    Good luck figuring out where Bond goes from here if it will be another two years before they pull the trigger.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    When do you think they will stop making Bond films and writing Bond books on a regular or semi-regular basis? 50 years? More? Less?
  • Posts: 2,161
    I think we’re there so far as films go.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited July 2022 Posts: 8,183
    Maybe Eon will only start making films every 2 to 3 years once fans realize how spoiled they themselves actually are.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think we’re there so far as films go.
    Well, now they are taking longer to come out, but they're still making them with some degree of regularity. At the very least, after a film comes out, we know EON is going to make another one. Do you think that's going to change in the near future?

    Whatever the case, at some point, James Bond will no longer be of major interest.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    mattjoes wrote: »
    When do you think they will stop making Bond films and writing Bond books on a regular or semi-regular basis? 50 years? More? Less?

    I think this is an interesting question. Are you asking: when does Bond become culturally insignificant?

    Bond's emergence is tied to the boomer generation, so as they go, and if the films stop coming out regularly to draw in new viewers with contemporary films, Bond's popularity is sure to wane.

    I'd think the continuation books are not financially viable without an active film series bolstering them.

    So yes, 50 years sounds about right.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    echo wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    When do you think they will stop making Bond films and writing Bond books on a regular or semi-regular basis? 50 years? More? Less?

    I think this is an interesting question. Are you asking: when does Bond become culturally insignificant?

    Bond's emergence is tied to the boomer generation, so as they go, and if the films stop coming out regularly to draw in new viewers with contemporary films, Bond's popularity is sure to wane.

    I'd think the continuation books are not financially viable without an active film series bolstering them.

    So yes, 50 years sounds about right.

    Yes, that was the implicit point of my question.

    I think you're probably right about the books relying on the films for commercial viability.
  • Posts: 3,327
    echo wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    When do you think they will stop making Bond films and writing Bond books on a regular or semi-regular basis? 50 years? More? Less?

    I think this is an interesting question. Are you asking: when does Bond become culturally insignificant?

    Bond's emergence is tied to the boomer generation, so as they go, and if the films stop coming out regularly to draw in new viewers with contemporary films, Bond's popularity is sure to wane.

    I'd think the continuation books are not financially viable without an active film series bolstering them.

    So yes, 50 years sounds about right.

    Not so sure. I think there is enough mileage with Bond to make these films as long as films are still being made.

    It's because the essence is about good v evil, which is the basis for most films. As human beings this is fundamentally what we are seeking constantly - reassurance that good defeats evil.

    And Bond epitomises that. Sure, there are variants on the theme. Fleming's take was more down-to-earth, gritty, realistic, more espionage, which has managed to stand the test of time right up to the present day. But escapism was also a big part too, and this hasn't changed either (and I doubt it ever will).

    Then we have had other variants - more gadgets, more outlandish (YOLT, MR, DAF, DAD), more sci-fi, more comedy, lighter hearted approach, more tongue-in-cheek.

    Bond has managed to adapt for half a century. What Fleming wrote back in 1952 is still in some way relevant to 2022. Yes, certain things are now dated - sexism, racism, colonialism. Bond no longer smokes 60 a day, but he still enjoys wearing luxury items or driving fast cars, and this is just as relevant today.

    CR and SF are fairly rooted in the world Fleming wrote about, and these are the most successful films in recent times, so whatever jackpot formula Fleming stumbled upon back in 1952, I doubt even he would have realised just how adaptable that would be for the next 100 years (and counting)...


  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    If a new viewer or reader gets the bug from any source, there is a wealth of product to absorb. That doesn't depend on frequency of new films and books. It just feeds them.

    The franchise is virtually forever, and is the example of classic stories being retold all the time and for all time.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,206
    I think that literary Bond will continue far beyond the cinematic Bond. I can see cinematic Bond taking a very long hiatus, eventually being revived by a new generation of filmmakers. Ironically I think it would be done as a period piece set in the 60’s
  • Posts: 16,162
    We're down to only 2 films per decade now. By those calculations, the next actor will probably only do two films, if we're lucky. They'll likely be spaced five or six years in between.

    I doubt he'll stick around for a third outing.
    If the productivity continues to decrease we may get one film per decade, resulting one film per actor.

    At some point Barbara and Michael may just throw in the towel...................then turn the franchise over to Purvis and Wade (evil laugh follows).
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    The main issue isn't the lengthened production times themselves, but how they haven't resulted in better Bond movies.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    talos7 wrote: »
    I think that literary Bond will continue far beyond the cinematic Bond. I can see cinematic Bond taking a very long hiatus, eventually being revived by a new generation of filmmakers. Ironically I think it would be done as a period piece set in the 60’s

    I think literary Bond is running out of steam pretty desperately, isn't it? Are there any more gaps to fill? And Horowitz was a breath of fresh air, but he's done now with no obvious place to go, and Fleming feels pretty mined out now.
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