It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
There's definitely something missing at the end, and they shot Bond's car sliding along on its side- I feel like he must have done a Bondian cool thing but they cut it out.
The bit which grates with me as a car guy is that when Bond gets some clear road there's no way those Alfas would have kept up with his V12 Aston. I think it actually would have been enjoyable to show the power of the thing, a bit like that fun bit in the TND car park chase where Bond does a massive burnout in his BMW.
I think it’s a mixture of issues. There are other sections of the film where it feels like there’s not enough coverage (I think there’s almost a random jump cut which quite overtly breaks the line on Camille during the plane sequence/when she’s at the back of the plane, which has always jarred me).
I think it’s probably down to rushed production issues and Forster’s/Schaefer’s lack of experience on a project of that scale. It might not be an issue of too much or too little coverage but not getting the right coverage (again, you’d have thought the artsy bowling ball or fan shots would have just been scrapped as it doesn’t really add anything visually to the story, but they went with it). That and there are times when QOS makes very consciously stylistic decisions that I don’t personally think work for the film and seem very much pre planned (the cutting to the horse race before the Sienna chase is a big one for me. There’s this wonderfully tense bit of dialogue from White, but instead of building up to Mitchell taking out his gun in the scene it instead cuts to what’s going on outside. I understand what it’s doing in theory but it really comes off as something I’ve seen first year film students do, and it takes away a lot of genuine suspense from the film).
There’s stuff in there that’s kinda cool - the door coming off of Bond’s Aston, him manoeuvring so one of the Alfas gets hit by the truck. But yeah, it feels like there needed to be something more special in there.
I do like that move Bond does to rip his own door off, that's pretty cool. But that bit is actually another odd choice which Forster (presumably?) makes: at two points in this film he shows that Bond's chases actually lead to injury of innocents, which I don't think has happened in a Bond film before and feels kind of against the rules. That lorry driver has a head-on smash: he's not okay; plus there's an innocent woman in the crowd at the Palio who we see get shot and fall - I don't really know why that's in there. These bits just feel wrong and make Bond look bad for putting innocent people in the way, they shouldn't really be there.
But yeah, Mendes is in a different league, especially with SF. Even SP has a confidence to it even if I’m not always sold on some of the gags and creative choices.
It’s ok, the rapid editing covers most of it up so not everyone notices! It is a bit odd when you think about though, very true.
Hear hear!
Here’s my personal issue with all that - I think the action we see in QOS is actually very staged. It’s an issue I have with Bourne too - strip away the rapid editing and handheld camera, and the fight/action choreography is actually very stylised. For me, things like the fight with Slate or Green coming at Bond with the axe don’t ever feel as real as something like the CR staircase fight or the train fight with Patrice in SF.
I think it’s a case of an interesting idea, but with the wrong execution. For me CR works better at making its action sequences feel real because everything about it works together. We actually see Bond struggling to keep up during the Madagascar chase and taking shortcuts. We see him getting knocked around during the staircase fight, him chugging whiskey after and patching his wounds. The editing and cinematography during those sequences are motivated by character movements/keeping the action flowing, so it’s not just a case of one component doing one thing and what’s being shown onscreen another. SF’s a similar case too. I don’t quite get that in QOS. The rapid editing/camerawork is doing one thing, and yet Bond is doing things like inexplicably surviving a parachute drop of a few feet, beating up Slate and Green with very slick/stylised choreography etc. That’s fine, but it’s a bit jarring to see it presented in that way.
I think the Slate fight is edited/shot that way, and I will say the sound design is good and the strongest part of it (love the crack as Bond twists his hand). But the choreography itself is pretty polished, almost like they know how the other is going to move (almost dance-like in a way). It’s a bit jarring for me, but again that’s an issue I have with Bourne too. But yeah, a very flat fight for me, unfortunately lacking in much tension.
I think it’s a case where SF just blends everything much better in both style and substance. It doesn’t need to have QOS’s heightened, gritty cinema verite style because what’s happened prior is giving the audience so much - Bond is injured, there’s a sniper that could hit either of them, and he needs that hard drive. It’s very much edge of your seat stuff. It’s shot effectively and actually I think the choreography is much more convincing than in QOS (it looks slightly slower, which makes sense as they’re on a train and Bond has a bullet in his shoulder. Not to say it’s completely realistic/isn’t heightened, but it works).
I get the sense in the second Patrice fight in the skyscraper that they really know what the other is about to do like a dance, but again it's more exciting because it's had so much build-up and of course we know how formidable Patrice is at this point, and also it's one of the most achingly stylish things in the whole series, it's just so cool.
From the Craig era, the most impressive fight scene is the staircase scene in CR. That is flat out brutal. Obviously intricately staged, but raw and brutal, and followed up nicely by Bond showing his wounds. Fight sequences in subsequent Craig films have never been as convincing.
Yeah, the Shanghai fight works because we know Bond is still not at his best. It's very much presented as a rematch between Patrice and Bond, and when Bond wins it's ultimately more satisfying.
I'd say it actually doesn't feel quite as dance-like as QOS. It feels like a genuine scuffle, albeit one presented very stylishly. I think it's because it's not quite as fast as the fight in QOS (again, during the Slate fight there are moments when you can literally count or tap you feet to the rhythm of Bond blocking punches).
Yeah, I think a lot of it's about how everything works together. The choreography in QOS isn't bad by any means I'd say, and to some extent it'll always look a bit contrived without the proper sheen of editing and cinematography. I'd say that the way the scene is edited/shot doesn't do it justice.
It's a bit like whenever I hear the criticism that The Dark Knight Rises has bad fight choreography (there are unfortunately a few moments where we can see punches not landing and goons falling, or scuffles which are played out a bit too slow within the shot) but I think that film's issue is that a lot of the later fights are shot very wide without much cutting at points. It's badly directed in that sense.
I think the staircase fight in CR is one of the best fight scenes in Bond, up there with the train fight in FRWL. Well edited (although I always notice that one shot where they've slowed it down ever so slightly as Bond is kicked down the stairs towards the end, presumably just to keep the pace of the scene from not feeling too quick... even that's arguably quite a good decision though), it's not too fast or slow, great choreography, and very good cinematography. And yeah, showing the aftermath is a wonderful touch. I'd like to see a similar kind of thing in the next film where the audience really get the sense Bond can get hurt.
I've brought this point up before, but there's a Cubby quote somewhere that Bond chases don't put the public in direct danger (excepting of course the nuclear bombs that Bond deflects/defuses in say TB and OP).
That's why the PTS of SP never quite sat well with me. There's something about the helicopter being about to crash into the spectators, and the repeated (female only!) screams from below, that don't feel Bondian to me either.
I blame Mendes.
It might just be an issue of tone ultimately (ie. I'm sure innocent lives are put in danger during the tank chase in GE, and of course those chases in LALD/AVTAK, but ultimately they're a bit of fun and the viewer likely isn't going to worry about a random person's car getting a bit damaged). In QOS the woman getting shot (I don't think fatally for what it's worth) is genuinely quite shocking and takes us out of this Bond/villain chase.
I don't think Cubby's words (if accurate) on that were the wisest, to be honest.
That's alright, Mendes made sure there was nobody on the streets of Rome later in the same film. Or on the streets near Vauxhall. So I guess that should balance it out for you.
+1
And if he did, he probably wouldn't have stopped to point in awe at a komodo dragon while he was being attacked.
I can believe it because the goon he's taking in is a bit bigger than him and further away in that particular moment (they sort of spar/circle each other for two seconds from what I remember). Bond doesn't really need to go on the attack at that point and would probably get into more problems if he did. Different scenes to the CR/QOS examples though I suppose.
I always find QOS and SP way more jarring and out of tone with the Bond of CR than SF to be honest. He's almost superhuman in QOS to point I never believe he can get hurt - a bit bloodied maybe, which feels a bit superficial really. It was so great seeing Craig's Bond in CR get legitimately hurt, even wincing as he dabs a wound after the staircase fight and chugging whiskey. We'd certainly never seen Bond in hospital in any of the films before. For me it's one of the vital elements missing from QOS. Even when the villain's coming at him with an ax I never quite feel like he's in danger.
That's funny though, I love it.
Yes the bit where Bond's tank catches up with a police car and runs over it while it's moving does seem a bit needly dangerous of him! :D
Agreed. Comparing the openings to QOS and SF, I much prefer QOS's due to its spontaneity. The Aston gets its door ripped off, exposing Bond to potential gunfire. Bond narrowly dodges the tractor-trailer, the Quantum car tries to do the same and gets slammed head-on. Bond escapes down the quarry road, but is almost hit by the cop car that's tumbling downhill after it was shot up by the Quantum agents.
But SF? Patrice gets into a car. Bond gets into a car. There's a brief, very linear chase where not much happens apart from Bond's car losing a sideview mirror. Bond knocks Patrice off the road. Patrice gets on a bike. Bond gets on a bike. They ride together across a linear path on the rooftops. It feels very staged. Actually, the whole movie has an uncanny, almost video game feel to it.
Bond films tend to have that video game kind of feel in their first acts, especially as they get more modern. Something like TSWLM's Egypt section feels very much like that with Bond's objectives/who he has to find constantly changing and him going from location to location rather quickly. Works for me. Makes it feel more like Bond has to think on his feet/the situation could change at any moment.
"It feels very staged" is what I always come back to when not loving the action and spectacle in SF.
It really depends on the sequence, but I tend to like the more 'matter of fact' fights. The ones where it actually looks like two people going at it, and the camera/editing (and of course sound which is so under appreciated) heightening everything but not distracting from the scene.
Take FYEO. The chase starts off with Bond on skis being pursed by bikers. Already it's wildly different from other chase scenes, but then Bond skis down a luge, and Krieger follows him on the bike. That's something you'd only ever see in a Bond movie.
The recent movies have largely lost that type of novelty. Ironically, only Spectre attempted to bring back old-fashioned Bond action sequences with the opening chopper fight (good) and the car/plane chase in Austria (original but boring).
Going back to SF, what if instead of Bond also getting on a conveniently-available bike, he has to use some alternate form of transportation to keep up with Patrice? That's how they would've done it during the classic era.