Is Pierce Brosnan really all that bad ??

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  • Posts: 11,189
    I quite liked Jonathan Pryce in the role even if he was somewhat light-weight.

  • Posts: 4,617
    I think it adds some depth if you have a motivation from the bad guy that you can have some form of empathy with or see that at one time they were on the right side. If you just go for greed via money via selling more newspapers via creating new stories. Its like the CEO of Tescos planning to blow up the competition. If you can add another emotion rather than greed, I think thats a good thing IMHO
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think he was a god villain, the power some of these media barrons hold through
    Newspapers, TV and radio along with web and internet media. They can control
    Public opinion by twisting a story to their own ends, or even control governments
    So for Me, Carver was a believable contemporary villain. :)
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,189
    patb wrote: »
    I think it adds some depth if you have a motivation from the bad guy that you can have some form of empathy with or see that at one time they were on the right side. If you just go for greed via money via selling more newspapers via creating new stories. Its like the CEO of Tescos planning to blow up the competition. If you can add another emotion rather than greed, I think thats a good thing IMHO

    I work for Tesco's and I'd love to see a Bond film where the CEO plans to blow up rival companies (I wouldn't put it past them ;) ).
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Tesco, couldn't afford the explosives these days. :))
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,189
    DrGorner wrote: »
    Tesco, couldn't afford the explosives these days. :))

    If the henchman did enough shopping they could save points off fuel that they could then use for their evil deeds.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) get them from their everyday essentials range.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    What I liked about Lazenby, apart from his obvious looks and fitness for the role, was the following:

    He took a part in a movie that could very easily have fallen into hokiness. Even with his limited experience, he was able to give us an acting performance that did not fall into sentimentality or emotionality. It was quite a measured, vulnerable performance in this respect from him. I felt that I was watching a battle hardened agent get broken down by a woman. However, I did not think that the man was going to burst into tears at any point during the film.

    On this respect alone, I think he deserves an A. It's a very difficult thing to pull off. Brosnan would not have been able to do this, based on his performance in TWINE. He would most likely have overacted sentimentally, as is his approach.

    Only Craig has been able to surpass this in CR, and Craig is an exceptional actor. So that says something for Laz.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Anyone seen "The Ghost" , its a decent film but he is just not up to it IMHO
    There is a crucial scene onboard a jet where he is confronted and he is left wanting
  • Posts: 4,617
    Sorry, one more , Mama Mia, during "The Winner Takes It All" check out his hands, doesn't know what to do.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Anyone seen "The Ghost" , its a decent film but he is just not up to it IMHO
    There is a crucial scene onboard a jet where he is confronted and he is left wanting

    I can't remember the specific scene you're referring to (I know there was an outburst of sorts), but I thought Brozz was very good in that film generally. He really fit that role well.

    I've been meaning to watch it again so may take it in this weekend.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Its a film that I really want to like but I cant stand EM, hes just one of those actors I cant take to (we all have them), a great concept though and a good twist.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The Ghost is one of Brosnan's best films IMO. He gives a decent performance - he's not a great actor, but when he's properly cast he can do a decent job. I agree about Ewan McGregor - very annoying. But that seems to suit this role, where he's playing a slightly sleezy ex-tabloid hack. You're on his side but you don't fully like him. I think it works well. Good casting all round by Polanski.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I get your point about EM. He's been in some stinkers (I remember some crap with Ashley Judd some years back - I walked out of the theatre).

    I like Polanski generally so I am a bit biased. I dislike Blair too so again I enjoyed this film due to the parallels.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I remember a certain scene late on in that film at an airport. I was like "noooooooo" :(
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I remember a certain scene late on in that film at an airport. I was like "noooooooo" :(

    Really? Funny how you're picking up on Brosnan not being good in The Ghost, and here I am defending him.

    The tables are turned my friend!
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,189
    No, a scene where something happens to his character.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Can't remember. You'll have to remind me.
  • Posts: 11,189
    He gets shot suddenly
  • Posts: 4,617
    RP is clearly a talented director and the book sold well and it clearly is based on Blair..but therefore, you need someone who has had the charisma, gravitas and charm to lead the nation for many years.With respect to PB, I think we can all think of actors who would have given it a better shot. He just comes over as too light weight IMHO
  • Posts: 11,425
    Hmm. He is supposed to be a Blair type politician - who some would argue is the ultimate lightweight politician in the sense that he seemed to float above the political fray for some many years and was then brought low by one mega disaster - ie invading Iraq. I think Brosnan was actually really well cast here. He is a bit of a lightweight actor, but that's what made him appropriate for the part. He has that air of a sort of vacuous catalogue model - good looks, superficial charm and a sort of lack of substance. I'm not saying that's what Brosnan the man is like (I'm sure he's a very nice guy), but he really does suit those sorts of roles. The Taylor of Panama is another film where he's actually really well cast.

    Brosnan's looks are both a blessing and a curse. They mean he has often been cast in heroic leading man roles, when that's not actually really his strength.

    This is why I always felt he was miscast as Bond - or at least he should have played Bond very differently from how he did it. He should have been nastier, harder and more morally ambiguous.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Nasty Brosnan in The Fourth Protocol

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I agree with your earlier points @Getafix re: Brosnan suiting the role of a Blair type politician because of the way he presents - he suits the smarmy types like the Tailor of Panama too.

    I disagree on Bond though. I don't think he's really suited to Bond based on the 4 films he made. Even if he played it harder, nastier & in a morally ambigous way, I think he would have had to put out too much of himself - it would have been excessive. I think he was very good in the November Man for instance and the aforementioned ToP, but that is not James Bond. There is more of a subtlety to Bond....a knowing experience....that Brosnan never captured, for me at least.

    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.

    I don't see any difference here whatsoever.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.

    I don't see any difference here whatsoever.

    Well, that could be part of why we may have a difference of opinion on this matter perhaps.

    For me, one is assured. The other is strained. Forced. The shoe fits on one and not on the other. That's my perception though.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Well Connery smirks and Brosnan raises his eye brows for a second. What's the difference meant to be?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I can't explain it. It's my read on it and that is an example. Brosnan did not seem believable with the lines and the subtle arrogance (i.e. like in the bankers office in TWINE - everything seemed forced to me).

    At the end of the day, to sum it up, I did not find him believable as 'hard Bond'. I believed him more as 'soft Bond', which is what he was in TWINE with Electra, and that 'soft emotional Bond' is not a Bond I like.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree with your earlier points @Getafix re: Brosnan suiting the role of a Blair type politician because of the way he presents - he suits the smarmy types like the Tailor of Panama too.

    I disagree on Bond though. I don't think he's really suited to Bond based on the 4 films he made. Even if he played it harder, nastier & in a morally ambigous way, I think he would have had to put out too much of himself - it would have been excessive. I think he was very good in the November Man for instance and the aforementioned ToP, but that is not James Bond. There is more of a subtlety to Bond....a knowing experience....that Brosnan never captured, for me at least.

    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.

    I was trying to be nice to Brosnan - going along with the line that he could have been good if he'd had better material and tweaked his performance. But essentially I agree with you - he was fundamentally miscast and had he played Bond to his strengths, the role would have been completely redefined.

    I actually think that's the route he should have gone down. EON would probably never have allowed it, but that whole idea of Tarrantino directing Brosnan as this sleazy, corrupt, over the hill Bond is really tantalising. Perhaps it wouldn't have been Bond, but it would have been interesting. Did Brosnan ever suggest directors to EON like Dan does? May be he did and they weren't interested or EON said no, but I just sense a lack of engagement with the character and the whole process.

    I also wonder whether Brosnan just lacked courage. EON is accused of a lot, but I think they give their actors more leeway than the Brosnan defenders make out. If they're so controlling, how come Dalton's portrayal supposedly shocked audiences. When DAD came out, who imagined the next Bond film would see a performance like the one that Craig gave? The fact that the Brosnan era is bookcased by two of the hardest hitting entries in the entire series kind of undermines this idea that it was EON who forced Brosnan to give this bland 'greatest hits' performance.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree with your earlier points @Getafix re: Brosnan suiting the role of a Blair type politician because of the way he presents - he suits the smarmy types like the Tailor of Panama too.

    I disagree on Bond though. I don't think he's really suited to Bond based on the 4 films he made. Even if he played it harder, nastier & in a morally ambigous way, I think he would have had to put out too much of himself - it would have been excessive. I think he was very good in the November Man for instance and the aforementioned ToP, but that is not James Bond. There is more of a subtlety to Bond....a knowing experience....that Brosnan never captured, for me at least.

    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.

    I was trying to be nice to Brosnan - going along with the line that he could have been good if he'd had better material and tweaked his performance. But essentially I agree with you - he was fundamentally miscast and had he played Bond to his strengths, the role would have been completely redefined.

    I actually think that's the route he should have gone down. EON would probably never have allowed it, but that whole idea of Tarrantino directing Brosnan as this sleazy, corrupt, over the hill Bond is really tantalising. Perhaps it wouldn't have been Bond, but it would have been interesting.

    Agree again on the Tarrantino redefinition of Bond. I think Brosnan wanted that (he was pushing for it) because he probably knew it would play to his strengths. Sort of an alternative universe Bond if you will.

    Of course, EON would never have gone for that and it was quite obvious to me when they cast Craig that they knew that they had to prioritize inherent masculinity first as well as acting prowess going forward.

    Any actor who gets Bond from now on has to be first and foremost a superior actor, and also have some inherent on-screen virility - at least while Babs is in charge.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree with your earlier points @Getafix re: Brosnan suiting the role of a Blair type politician because of the way he presents - he suits the smarmy types like the Tailor of Panama too.

    I disagree on Bond though. I don't think he's really suited to Bond based on the 4 films he made. Even if he played it harder, nastier & in a morally ambigous way, I think he would have had to put out too much of himself - it would have been excessive. I think he was very good in the November Man for instance and the aforementioned ToP, but that is not James Bond. There is more of a subtlety to Bond....a knowing experience....that Brosnan never captured, for me at least.

    As an example, when Connery tells MP in YOLT that he had a double first in languages from Cambridge - just look at the way he delivers that line. The subtle knowing arrogance. Compare that to the way Brozza delivers to Oxford line (in Russian) to Denise in TWINE. Big difference.

    I was trying to be nice to Brosnan - going along with the line that he could have been good if he'd had better material and tweaked his performance. But essentially I agree with you - he was fundamentally miscast and had he played Bond to his strengths, the role would have been completely redefined.

    I actually think that's the route he should have gone down. EON would probably never have allowed it, but that whole idea of Tarrantino directing Brosnan as this sleazy, corrupt, over the hill Bond is really tantalising. Perhaps it wouldn't have been Bond, but it would have been interesting.

    Agree again on the Tarrantino redefinition of Bond. I think Brosnan wanted that (he was pushing for it) because he probably knew it would play to his strengths. Sort of an alternative universe Bond if you will.

    Of course, EON would never have gone for that and it was quite obvious to me when they cast Craig that they knew that they had to prioritize inherent masculinity first as well as acting prowess going forward.

    Any actor who gets Bond from now on has to be first and foremost a superior actor, and also have some inherent on-screen virility - at least while Babs is in charge.

    I think you're right. Casting Brosnan was Cubby's last big decision and arguably (from a creative sense) one of his worst. We know that Babs was more than a little bit of a Dalton fan. ;) I generally trust Bab's judgement when it comes to casting Bond, although not necessarily some of her other decisions. I think Craig was inspired. He's not my favourite Bond at all, but I respect his take on the role, and he was just what the series needed after Brosnan. I have no doubt that Craig's replacement will be a solid actor as well. I actually hope he'll be an improvement, although he'll struggle to match Craig's commercial success I think.

    But really, where next? In a way you could argue Craig has radically redefined the character more than any one else - more than Dalton even. His take is a sort of thuggish bruiser. All the enjoyment of the finer things in life has gone out the window. Bond is a ruthless professional killer, entirely focused on the job all of the time. The fun, fine wine and the women have largely been put to one side for bone-crunching fights and a brooding surliness.

    I just wonder if Craig can redefine Bond so much, then why not let Brosnan do that parallel universe Bond that he apparently wanted? I think it could have been really interesting. Although I understand that EON don't want to damage the image of Bond.

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