The Last Jedi SPOILER THREAD

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Comments

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Nice artwork. Who is the artist?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Nice artwork. Who is the artist?


    Cam Kennedy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Thanks, will try to remember that name.
  • Posts: 4,615
    Rebounding the AT-AT cannon onto other AT-ATs, via Luke's light sabre to bring them down would have been far better IMHO and been a nice reference to the scene in the first movie where he uses the training ball to deflect energy.

    It could also have been a better way to raise tension as Kilo could have ordered one shot, then a salvo and then everything. As he scales up the attack (in scale with his anger), it provides more energy for Luke to deflect back at the AT-ATs and would show how Kilo's temper is his downfall.

    Obviously also better if he was actually there (I have read many reviews that discuss the concept of a heroe's sacrifice and Luke was deprived of this) using the original light sabre that he should have shown some form of respect for rather than literally junking in his first scene. Using the same light sabre would have "bookended" the movie nicely and, if Luke was to die, passing it to Rey before his death would have been a good metaphor for the series passing from one generation to another and a more moving death scene than "fainting on a rock".

    One weakness leads to another re the script and it was all so avoidable. Still very frustrated and confused.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Caught it again on New Years Eve, enjoyed it even more now the expectation out the way and just had a chance to concentrate on the story and enjoy the experience.

    Yes the Mary Poppins moment still is somewhat jarring and the Canto Bite segment isn't great but for me this was much more satisfying than TFA was on it's next viewing.

    I was going to wait for a second viewing to see where it sits for me and now I can confidently say this is how they rank for me.

    1. ESB
    2. Star Wars
    3. TLJ
    4. Rogue One
    5. ROTJ
    6. TFA


    I'm stopping there because like TND, TWINE & DAD I try to imagine the prequels don't exist, works for me.

    I was there in 1977 when Star Wars first arrived so I'm not someone who came in later, so sue me for liking TLJ I just did, can't say anymore than that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I think all of us who saw Star Wars in 1977, still call it by its proper name, Star Wars.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    I think all of us who saw Star Wars in 1977, still call it by its proper name, Star Wars.

    I didn't see it in 1977 but it's still just Star Wars to me. I never bought into the episode thing - probably thanks to me educating myself by wearing out my father's VHS copies of the originals when I was a pre-teen.
  • Posts: 4,615
    Still seething......

    There is a "truth" within a character. When you take existing characters and see them acting out of character, that is the key issue with Last Jedi.

    In TFA, when Han re=enters the Falcon, he smiles : "Chewie, we're home". It's a great moment (used as a key part of the trailer) as its warm and communicates the audience how much Han remembers "the good old days".

    Contrast this to the scene in Last Jedi where Luke is handed his original light sabre. What emotion does this bring? Anger that he is being connected with a history he is trying to forget? Curiosity about how this girl found the sabre? Fondness for "the good old days"? Sadness at the loss of his father? any emotion would be something. But he shruggs his shoulders and tosses the sabre over his shoulder like is a piece of trash. And, by doing so, treats his own heritage as trash. And if thats how he feels, then why should the audience care?

    (Remember the scene in Skyfall where Bond sees his DB5 trashed? He is really really pi##ed at this and it ups the stakes, taking his anger to the next level, its good writing. The DB5 in Bond is as iconic as Luke's light sabre.More than just metal. Something that brings heritage and emotion.)

    Its just the most dreadful writing and makes JJ look like some kind of genius.

    Entertainment is about story. Stories are about character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Contrast this to the scene in Last Jedi where Luke is handed his original light sabre. What emotion does this bring? Anger that he is being connected with a history he is trying to forget? Curiosity about how this girl found the sabre? Fondness for "the good old days"? Sadness at the loss of his father? any emotion would be something. But he shruggs his shoulders and tosses the sabre over his shoulder like is a piece of trash. And, by doing so, treats his own heritage as trash. And if thats how he feels, then why should the audience care?
    I got the impression that this was the whole point though. It was meant to be a head shaking moment for the audience. The director was making a statement. "Let the past die, Kill it, if you have to". Johnson was deliberately trying to be controversial. Resetting expectations for the future of the series.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I kinda liked the tone it set for the rest of the movie which wanted to prove that Jedi are not some superhero's who make the right choices but the are as fallible as the rest us "normal humans".
    The Jedi were not able to stop the rise of the Emperor and his ilk and not strong enough to reunite the galaxy in a democratic republic as they were before. Luke realized that clearly as did Ren.
  • Posts: 4,615
    "I got the impression that this was the whole point though. It was meant to be a head shaking moment for the audience. The director was making a statement. "Let the past die, Kill it, if you have to". Johnson was deliberately trying to be controversial. Resetting expectations for the future of the series. "

    Can you imagine the outrage if a new director did that with Bond? You can send the series in any direction you like but to change the nature of existing, loved characters makes no sense. Kill them off with dignity and set the new direction with the new characters.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 7,653
    Then again recasting Fisher or Hamill would be a difficult job. I kinda like that the old folks have given their moments but that the stories continues in a new directions. Star Wars was for quite some time more the Skywalker family troubles and adventures. With Ben Solo we have a new generation of Solo/Skywalker possibilities.

    You cannot compare 007 franchise with SW, the last time anybody created an outcry about an new actor they were put away as simpletons. With SW there is just too much characters at play. I think it is the story of R2D2 & C3P0.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I think the key thing they were trying to get across in TLJ is that it's not about destiny or fate or dynasty. It's not about symbols (like a saber) either. It's about free will. It's about democratizing the force and acknowledging it's available for everyone who has the capacity to tap into it. In a way, it's quite zen.

    Yes, to a degree they sacrificed our preconceived expectations of Luke, I don't think it was done as poorly as many think. Is he coming back for the next one as a Force Ghost? If so, there is the potential for more to be said with his character.
  • Posts: 2,107
    I hope they have Luke as Force ghost in episode 9.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I hope they have Luke as Force ghost in episode 9.

    I would not bet any money on that as it would not make any profit at all.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,109
    The Last Jedi has bombed in China apparently I thought it would have done well there.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The Last Jedi has bombed in China apparently I thought it would have done well there.
    That's unfortunate given the pandering. TFA didn't do all that well there (relatively speaking) also. The SW legend is not as well known there.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,109
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Last Jedi has bombed in China apparently I thought it would have done well there.
    That's unfortunate given the pandering. TFA didn't do all that well there (relatively speaking) also. The SW legend is not as well known there.

    Yes it would appear they were aiming for the Chinese market, you are right it's a religion almost in the States and the UK.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Last Jedi has bombed in China apparently I thought it would have done well there.
    That's unfortunate given the pandering. TFA didn't do all that well there (relatively speaking) also. The SW legend is not as well known there.

    Yes it would appear they were aiming for the Chinese market, you are right it's a religion almost in the States and the UK.
    The same applies to Bond. It underperforms in that market, perhaps for similar reasons.
  • Posts: 12,526
    well? Just been to see it and really enjoyed it. Can't believe Snoke was despatched like that so easily. I thought he was great and far better than Kylo Ren. Surprised Luke has now gone and obviously their will be no Leia.

    Guess that just leaves C3PO, R2D2 and Chewbacca as legacy characters then.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,109
    Having watched TLJ again I am convinced Snoak is not dead and that was a force projection off Snoak in the throne room.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Having watched TLJ again I am convinced Snoak is not dead and that was a force projection off Snoak in the throne room.

    Surely it would have disappeared like Luke's? The 3rd one is all about Kylo Ren now and Rey.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,109
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Having watched TLJ again I am convinced Snoak is not dead and that was a force projection off Snoak in the throne room.

    Surely it would have disappeared like Luke's? The 3rd one is all about Kylo Ren now and Rey.

    It's the dialogue from Snoak during his death scene it fits exactly with what happens, to make Snoak credible in my eyes it has to be a force projection. If Snoak did die his character is beyond stupid lol
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Having watched TLJ again I am convinced Snoak is not dead and that was a force projection off Snoak in the throne room.

    Surely it would have disappeared like Luke's? The 3rd one is all about Kylo Ren now and Rey.

    It's the dialogue from Snoak during his death scene it fits exactly with what happens, to make Snoak credible in my eyes it has to be a force projection. If Snoak did die his character is beyond stupid lol
    That's true. I feel the same way as well. For a chap who instigated the entire Rey/Kylo event it seemed surprising that he fell for this obvious trap by Ren.

    I think folks may have a more favourable impression of TLJ once the entire story is told. I'm sure TESB also seemed disjointed prior to ROTJ coming along to tie it up.
  • Posts: 12,526
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Having watched TLJ again I am convinced Snoak is not dead and that was a force projection off Snoak in the throne room.

    Surely it would have disappeared like Luke's? The 3rd one is all about Kylo Ren now and Rey.

    It's the dialogue from Snoak during his death scene it fits exactly with what happens, to make Snoak credible in my eyes it has to be a force projection. If Snoak did die his character is beyond stupid lol

    Lol! Especially after his big speech! Well I guess we will find out sooner or later?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited January 2018 Posts: 25,109
    One thing that TLJ has done by being none committal with certain arcs is JJ can come in and implement whatever his ideas were when making TFA, in fact JJ can decide to take the characters wherever he wants.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2018 Posts: 17,795
    Just saw TLJ an hour ago...
    Still processing, but in a nutshell- it was pretty darn good. The last one lost me as soon as Solo was killed, so given that he was gone, this was a definite step up on almost every level. Technically speaking, it was flawless. Even the Snokes CGI wasn't too distracting. However, this is still not the story I would have done myself, so basically everything outside of the original trilogy for me is still just expensive fan fiction. But as fan fiction goes, this is about as good as it gets IMO.
    Oh, and give Mark Hamill an Oscar, please?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    @chrisisall

    I'm conflicted on Hamill as his performance was really good but he was playing a version of a character that I love but didn't recognise in this film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    @chrisisall

    I'm conflicted on Hamill as his performance was really good but he was playing a version of a character that I love but didn't recognise in this film.

    The reason I didn't cry when he did the Jedi-fade at the end was that the whole film didn't feel quite right to me. He did a tour-de-force (no pun intended) acting job here, but like I said above, this is just really good fan fiction to me.
    In MY view, Leia went on to become a full-on Jedi, and help battle other threats to Galactic freedom.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    chrisisall wrote: »
    @chrisisall

    I'm conflicted on Hamill as his performance was really good but he was playing a version of a character that I love but didn't recognise in this film.

    The reason I didn't cry when he did the Jedi-fade at the end was that the whole film didn't feel quite right to me. He did a tour-de-force (no pun intended) acting job here, but like I said above, this is just really good fan fiction to me.
    In MY view, Leia went on to become a full-on Jedi, and help battle other threats to Galactic freedom.

    I was actually annoyed at myself for not feeling too emotional during that Binary Sunset scene in TLJ. I said to myself "this is a great moment, right? Why doesn't it feel like it?"

    It was then that I realised the film had completely failed to connect with me, despite my enjoyment of it.
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