Do you believe in ghosts?

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  • edited October 2016 Posts: 9,847
    Ah the recycled story conspiracy this is a fun one because it shows how limited some people knowledge of the actual stories are. One website said to destroy Christianity you must do four things


    1. Find a theory from the mid 1800's that hasn't been discussed that week (don't ask why but all of these including the recycled myth conspiracy comes from the mid 1800's)
    2. Utilize old obscure documents that are usually misinterpretations or in some cases simply made up
    3. Never utilize cutting edge research as it will be the death of your claims
    4. Always be vague never go into too much detail in any way shape or form.


    Michael Skepner is a proponent (or was at one point) of the rescycled myth theory the issue of course is the example he likes to use is Osris and well if the makers of that myth were to come to our world today hey would be suing Mary Shelly not Matthew Mark Luke and John. Though here is the way Skepner tells it, Horus (now I am going off of memory rather then Wikipedia) was killed in a very torturous way had followers and rose again after three days. Sound familiar to anyone.. Only Problem is that here is how most Egyptologist believe the myth goes that Osris did die only a he was scattered across the four winds and Isis his lover sowed up the parts and made love to the corpse and gave birth to Horus shouting it's alive... Yeah sounds like a whole mother story written in the 1800's doesn't it. Now true some mystery religions in the second and third centuries borrow from Christ but really if anything it's the bible being plagerized not the other way around the only thing the New Testament "steals" from heavily is the Old Testament which makes sense. Apart from that most resurrection myths like he goddess Easter are really just based around crop cycles and while they involve a ressurection of some kind when going through the myths and then the story of Jesus of Nazareth there are minimal similarities.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Countless others. Krishna, Buddha, Mithra, Apollo,Balder, Apollonius of Tyana, Pythagoras etc etc.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    If this God bloke exists, I don't like him very much. The amount of people he kills. :))
  • Posts: 9,847
    If this God bloke exists, I don't like him very much. The amount of people he kills. :))

    American motorists kill twice that many on an average year (see I can quote from one of the most boring bond films ever)

    As for thunder finger it's has been a while since I studied world religions but I see two in your list that can be disqualified instantly

    With Budda there is no ressurection only reincarnation.

    Pyhtagrious if I am remembering my Greek history correctly was never considered a god until the brilliant Raymend Benson released a novel called the Facts of Death (which of course was written 2000 years after the bible)

    Apollo o don't believe was resurrected either he ascended to the heavens after being on a journey if memory serve me rightly again it's been a while. Balder and Mithra were both mystery religions that sprang up after Christianity and Krishnia doesn't so much ressurection but takes on various forms the creator and destroyer. Again this is all based on memory and give me a week or so and I can do more research of the above isn't suffecent enough.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Risico007, your confidence is misplaced, and beyond amusing, to be frank.

    While I don't doubt there may have been someone like Jesus at the time (doing non-supernatural deeds and trying to stand up for Jews in "non-magical" ways) who was then sent to death like John the Baptist for opposing those like Herod who despised their efforts, the man as depicted in any religious source couldn't have existed. I shouldn't have to point that out, but in this case, I guess I must.

    You can write useless paragraph after paragraph trying to defend your masters work, but if we're really going to debate about whether Christ rose from the dead on the third day, I must say I refuse to lose more brain cells to you than I already have discussing this tripe. You can't really strive to call other people here blind when you're the one banging your head into a wall every time you try to round a corner.
    If this God bloke exists, I don't like him very much. The amount of people he kills. :))

    @Thunderpussy, the God of the bible is an absolute monster, yes. He creates everything and has control over what's created, yet has a fit when (gasp) things go belly up.

    My favorite is when God allows his greatest follower, a simple and good man named Job to be tortured by Satan, given sickness, robbed of his family and put through more endless tragedies just so he can prove to Satan that no matter what he could do to Job, he would never lose faith in a "God."

    I love the religious who call themselves "God fearing," as it's so bogus and backward. If you're thick enough to believe in something like that, and on top of it you fear the person you're counting on leading you to salvation, you might as well find the nearest bridge and do a belly flop of it onto a shore of rocks.

    Cleverer minds of ancient times counted on people falling straight in line to follow these bullshit tenets, therefore the bible and those who crafted it represent and lead the single most continuous act of social control ever orchestrated in our world. While in the far past it must've been great having a book you could throw at someone misbehaving to tell them, "you're going to hell if you do that shit again," after a while the populace's ignorance balloons and balloons until it feels ready to burst. In the modern age where we're developing at such a steady degree technologically and socially, the last thing we need are these God fearing sort who hold everything back. We've got enough loons out there today acting in despicable ways because they think their acts will deliver them to divine reward and salvation. Terrorists following the radical teachings of Islam and Buford and Mary who pray on their knees to God in a baptist church, pleading for more money (instead of trying to get an actual job and get it themselves) both suffer from the same mental virus of belief in the unbelievable.

    People waste so much time putting their belief in this stuff, all for nothing.


    For those seeking vindication for the sense they have not to indulge in fantasy outside of their light fiction reading before bedtime, I give you our greatest modern day philosopher, Rust Cohle, who speaks paralyzing truth to the fever dreams of the religious:



    ^ @DarthDimi, Rust is a character right up your alley.
  • Posts: 15,124
    We can start another thread about the historicity of Jesus. There's very little evidence for it (which does not mean he never existed) but that is completely irrelevant to the existence or inexistence of ghosts.
  • Posts: 9,847
    @Risico007, your confidence is misplaced, and beyond amusing, to be frank.

    While I don't doubt there may have been someone like Jesus at the time (doing non-supernatural deeds and trying to stand up for Jews in "non-magical" ways) who was then sent to death like John the Baptist for opposing those like Herod who despised their efforts, the man as depicted in any religious source couldn't have existed. I shouldn't have to point that out, but in this case, I guess I must.

    You can write useless paragraph after paragraph trying to defend your masters work, but if we're really going to debate about whether Christ rose from the dead on the third day, I must say I refuse to lose more brain cells to you than I already have discussing this tripe. You can't really strive to call other people here blind when you're the one banging your head into a wall every time you try to round a corner.
    If this God bloke exists, I don't like him very much. The amount of people he kills. :))

    @Thunderpussy, the God of the bible is an absolute monster, yes. He creates everything and has control over what's created, yet has a fit when (gasp) things go belly up.

    My favorite is when God allows his greatest follower, a simple and good man named Job to be tortured by Satan, given sickness, robbed of his family and put through more endless tragedies just so he can prove to Satan that no matter what he could do to Job, he would never lose faith in a "God."

    I love the religious who call themselves "God fearing," as it's so bogus and backward. If you're thick enough to believe in something like that, and on top of it you fear the person you're counting on leading you to salvation, you might as well find the nearest bridge and do a belly flop of it onto a shore of rocks.

    Cleverer minds of ancient times counted on people falling straight in line to follow these bullshit tenets, therefore the bible and those who crafted it represent and lead the single most continuous act of social control ever orchestrated in our world. While in the far past it must've been great having a book you could throw at someone misbehaving to tell them, "you're going to hell if you do that shit again," after a while the populace's ignorance balloons and balloons until it feels ready to burst. In the modern age where we're developing at such a steady degree technologically and socially, the last thing we need are these God fearing sort who hold everything back. We've got enough loons out there today acting in despicable ways because they think their acts will deliver them to divine reward and salvation. Terrorists following the radical teachings of Islam and Buford and Mary who pray on their knees to God in a baptist church, pleading for more money (instead of trying to get an actual job and get it themselves) both suffer from the same mental virus of belief in the unbelievable.

    People waste so much time putting their belief in this stuff, all for nothing.


    For those seeking vindication for the sense they have not to indulge in fantasy outside of their light fiction reading before bedtime, I give you our greatest modern day philosopher, Rust Cohle, who speaks paralyzing truth to the fever dreams of the religious:



    ^ @DarthDimi, Rust is a character right up your alley.

    So instead of reading through my thoughtful work your simply going to say ridiculous comments like that.

    Well like I said your incredibly Naive and I guess that with all those "wasted brain cells" you have lost the ability to use common sense and reason sigh

    Just once I would like an actual counter argument instead of name calling but that is too much to hope for from this crowd of "intellectuals"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    There should be an emoji for a microphone drop ! :D
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited October 2016 Posts: 28,694
    @Risico007, I read your post, as inconsequential as it was, and gave you a response as to why it makes no sense for Jesus to have existed as the bible depicted. What more do you want? If I have to argue with you why a man can't rise from the dead, that's fucking tragic.

    Me and the other "non-believers" counter all the time, but we get just as much bullshit back in reply as you say we give you, especially on arguments about ghosts, as sensations of hauntings are explained away by environmental phenomenon acting on the human body. In instances like this, however, it's not difficult to imagine that we feel ludicrous for debating with you whether a man can die and rise from the dead, right? Right?

    For all the brain cells I lose to these debates, I sleep soundly in the solace that I'm not living my life in a feigned image of salvation and prayer, and that I'm not hoping endlessly for a paradise that isn't awaiting me beyond six feet of piled on dirt at the end of this "life" gig.


    While I'm here, more words from another great philosopher:


  • There should be an emoji for a microphone drop ! :D

    [-( (THUD.)
  • This is not the place for religious debates. Around Halloween time it's not surprising that people talk about ghosts, just like we'll talk about what we got or are giving for Christmas. But better threads than this one have been derailed by religious debates. Let's not even go there. Anybody want to discuss how many of Bond's allies can dance on the head of a pin?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I hate any public displays of rhythm !
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 4,617
    I was with a group of friends in the pub on Saturday and we regularly discuss religion. One friend lives in London and he told a story of an Orthodox Jew who lives in the same block of flats. On their day of rest, they are not allowed to turn lights on and off. To assist with this, they use those automatic timers and set them the day before. But the timer had broken so my friend got a knock on the door and was asked to go round and turn the lights on. It was an interesting moral/ethical situation as my friend is an athiest and we discussed whether turning the light on was simply a helpful/nice thing to do or did it re-enforce and confirm the original delusion?
    Also, I had to apologise to my friend as I was not sure if he was pulling my leg but I since found this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_on_Shabbat

    Before anyone comes up with a claim I am anti jewish, hopefully my previous posts will show that I treat all religions with equal distain so there is no favouratism.

    How is this relevant to the thread? Well, it struck me as some what ironic that some ghosts are claimed to turn lights on and off and other relgions forbid live humans from doing the same thing. If only they could get together? The orthodox jewish community could invite the ghosts around on their holy day to turn the lights on for them.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @patb, that's an interesting ethical quandary that I'd be unsure how to deal with. Like you I view all religions with an equivalent measure of contempt, but I also wouldn't want to ignore the request and put the fearful man into a crisis when he thinks he's misbehaved in the eyes of his supreme being, all because of me.

    How do you think you would you have dealt with it, if you were in your friend's position?
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 4,617
    "Grow up and turn the lights on yourself"

    By agreeing to the request, you become part of the issue. People have every right to live in what ever land of delusion they choose. But if the World they create involves relying on non-beleivers to help them go along with their rules, they have crossed the line.

    I also know that I am consistant in that atheism asks nothing from others. I turn my own lights on, cook my own food etc etc My belief system does not require confirmation/assistance from third parties

    PS Imagine how my neighbour would react if I asked him to feed my invisible dragon whilst I was on holiday? (thankfully, my mum comes round)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Surely by asking another to turn on the lights, you are making that person "sin" in the eyes of your God ? So are you infact being "evil" in doing so, so either way, your God will punish you ?
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 4,617
    You are applying logic, big mistake.
    Perhaps non believers are already on their way to hell anyway so turning a light on is not going to make a big difference but, yes, there is an ellement of hypocrisy and selfishness within the request
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Surely by asking another to turn on the lights, you are making that person "sin" in the eyes of your God ? So are you infact being "evil" in doing so, so either way, your God will punish you ?

    Dammit, you're right. The only solution is to smash all the bulbs in your house, then buy new ones when the blackout period is over.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    My 8 year old daughter asked the village vicar who was attached to the school ( it was a c of E school) why dinosaurs are not mentioned in the bible, he didn't really give her a valid response, he told her because when the Bible was written mankind didn't know of the dinosaurs existence, she also wondered why a merciful God would wipe out thousands of Thai people with a tidal wave as they were mostly fisherman, why not us or America or Europe who damage the planet so much, his response was God moves in mysterious ways and all his actions need no justification and to have faith. She replied is it because they believe in different gods? he just told her there is only one true God.
    When she asked me I simply said the Thai people live in an area prone to such geological events and that the bible was the greatest work of fiction ever written, by the Romans to appease a growing difference in beliefs and that it encapsulates aspects from a lot of beliefs, I also told her the vicar was right that at the time the bible was written people didn't know about the dinosaurs to which she said well if they didn't know that how can they know about Adam and Eve and the creation of the world? Exactly I replied..
  • Posts: 4,617
    With the right tools, an 8 year old can work it out. It's not rocket science
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Surely by asking another to turn on the lights, you are making that person "sin" in the eyes of your God ? So are you infact being "evil" in doing so, so either way, your God will punish you ?

    Dammit, you're right. The only solution is to smash all the bulbs in your house, then buy new ones when the blackout period is over.

    C'mon apply a bit of logic man! Far easier to just remove the main fuse than go to the expense of buying new bulbs! :-bd

    My personal take on religion is that it was (is) used as a means of controlling the masses.
  • Posts: 9,847
    So now we are on to dinosaurs and the bible.... Ok sure first and foremost I take it neither you nor your daughter nor (and I hope I am wrong here) your local vicar read the book of Job cause the creatures in that book sound very similar to what we call the Baraciosauris and possibly a trex (which is also described in one of the earlier biographies of Alexander the Great) ... And while many will say why not call it dinosaurs well that word wasn't invented till I wanna say the mid 1800's in fact if you spoke to say Sir Issac Newtown and told him about dinosaurs he would call you crazy until you showed him a picture and then he would say "oh you mean dragons"

    Ancient man new of the dinosaurs existence and there is enough archeological proof to showcase it from the picture of the triceratops at Ankor Wat to Trex bones in Ancient Greece etc so I have no disproven two myths

    1. Dinosaurs were indeed in the bible
    2. Ancient man new these species existed but didn't use 20th century words to describe them.
  • Posts: 4,617
    15 ¶ Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
    16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.
    17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
    18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.
    19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his
    sword to approach [unto him].
    20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
    21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
    22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the willows of the brook
    compass him about.
    23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he trusteth that he
    can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
    24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares.

    Yes, uncanny, what a great description.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2016 Posts: 18,281
    I don't want my thread derailed by a tirade on religion. We've discussed all of that before elsewhere at considerable length. It has no relevancy to the question in the OP, namely 'Do you believe in ghosts?'

    On the point about changing the thread title to being about all of the paranormal, I am also opposed to that as well. Ghosts is a broad enough subject to discuss in one thread without going off on any tangents and there is 'Dragonpol's Strange and Bizarre Mysterious World' thread already created to discuss such phenomena.

    If someone wants to start a religion thread go ahead by all means but this thread really is not the place for such a discussion.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop North Yorkshire
    Posts: 281
    Risico007 wrote: »
    So now we are on to dinosaurs and the bible.... Ok sure first and foremost I take it neither you nor your daughter nor (and I hope I am wrong here) your local vicar read the book of Job cause the creatures in that book sound very similar to what we call the Baraciosauris and possibly a trex (which is also described in one of the earlier biographies of Alexander the Great) ... And while many will say why not call it dinosaurs well that word wasn't invented till I wanna say the mid 1800's in fact if you spoke to say Sir Issac Newtown and told him about dinosaurs he would call you crazy until you showed him a picture and then he would say "oh you mean dragons"

    Ancient man new of the dinosaurs existence and there is enough archeological proof to showcase it from the picture of the triceratops at Ankor Wat to Trex bones in Ancient Greece etc so I have no disproven two myths

    1. Dinosaurs were indeed in the bible
    2. Ancient man new these species existed but didn't use 20th century words to describe them.
    I'm not sure the people of angkor Wat were studious Christians, I never said people didn't know of the existence of dinosaurs either, but science proves without any doubt dinosaurs existed on this planet before modern man, the fact you believe in the bible means you believe in Adam and Eve, though the bible omits neanderthal man also. If your a religious man and that works for you then fine but the sooner it's admitted that religion in all its forms are a belief system and state of mind rather than historical fact the better IMHO.
    A huge amount of ghost sightings happen in around religious buildings church's etc most of the people frequenting these places are of religious mind sets and are preconditioned to accept such things as ghosts, the existence of priests performing exorcism's bridges the religion/ paranormal gap, validating any posts on this thread concerning these topics I would say
  • Posts: 15,124
    Oh boy now dinosaurs in the Bible! I've heard all that rubbish before and it can be summed up by: confirmation bias. Or: scientists find something and theists try after the facts to apply it to the Bible. I'll give this to the Catholic Church and the C of E: at least they know they lost that battle a long time ago.
  • edited October 2016 Posts: 12,473
    Maybe someone should start a, "Do you believe in extraterrestrials?" thread. Could prove interesting I think.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Maybe someone should start a, "Do you believe in extraterrestrials?" thread. Could prove interesting I think.

    I was just about to do that. Should I go ahead?
  • Posts: 12,473
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Maybe someone should start a, "Do you believe in extraterrestrials?" thread. Could prove interesting I think.

    I was just about to do that. Should I go ahead?

    Go for it!
  • Posts: 15,124
    To get back on topic, something that annoys me with the claim that there are ghosts and that they are the spirit of dead people is that we now know that souls are superfluous to our existence: we can rewire a brain and completely change someone's personality, we know we need eyes to see and if they are wounded or destroyed one turns blind, etc. But a ghost apparently sees without eyes, functions without brains, speaks or screams without vocal chords, is immaterial yet can touch, move objects, etc. Oh and needs clothes for some reason.
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