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Tobey Maguire reacts to Andrew Garfield reacting to Spider-Man: Homecoming.
As a kid I wished they would air that show here.
It's now the 8th Marvel Studios movie in a row to be certified fresh
TWS
GotG
A:AoU
AM
CW
DS
GotG2
SM:HC
Would have been 14 but Thor Dark World messed up.
Only 2 movies haven't been certified fresh since Iron Man 1, and only 6 below 80%.
That's a remarkable streak and will continue with the next 3; Thor Ragnarok, Black Panther and Infinity War. Feige is the only producer in Hollywood effectively doing his job, meanwhile all these clowns outchea think they can cobble together a cinematic universe just like that. They've all failed to varying degrees; while others seemingly don't gaf and rely on past glories. We need more producers to actually produce...quality.
It is quite an achievement indeed, especially since some other outfits can't even string together an unbroken chain of 'fresh' main character films, let alone a connected universe.
I mostly agree with you. Usually when it's "certified fresh" it's a movie worth checking out but not always. I believe the new Ghostbusters was "certified fresh" and that movie wasn't great. They've even gave some great movies a low score, so take the site for what you will.
You're a better fan than I. If I'm being totally honest, as a massive spider-man fan, I haven't been completely satisfied with any of the 5 solo films. I still went to see them at the cinema but I always walked away disappointed. The first 2 Raimi films are the best of a disappointing bunch and I really didn't like Maguire or Garfield. I was sold on Tom Holland instantly and from what I've seen of Homecoming it looks to be better than its predecessors. Seeing this thing in 2 days, hopefully I won't be disappointed.
Interesting review
The only two Spider-Man films I really liked were Spider-Man 2 and The Amazing Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was decent but they tried to rush the unwanted Sinister Six movie. Spider-Man (2002) was dull and doesn't really hold up today. Spider-Man 3 is so bad it's almost good... which really isn't a good thing. I do think Holland is a breath of fresh air for the character of both Peter and Spidey. I was sold with his few scenes in Civil War.
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Easily my favorite poster for this movie
Absolutely loved this film and it's my favorite among the Spider-Man films, with The Amazing Spider-Man just behind it. They finally got Peter Parker and Spider-Man right! Holland nailed it! Marisa Tomei was a great Aunt May (although I think I like Sally Field just a little more). Peter and Aunt May's relationship was probably my favorite of any of the movies. They had a touching montage towards the end of the movie. Keaton as Vulture was great too and I hope we get to see him come back to be part of Sinister Six (in a Spidey movie, not a stand alone).
The rest of this will have spoilers, so read ahead if you've already seen it or don't care...
I kind of was hoping Laura Harrier's Liz Allen would be a replacement for Gwen Stacy but by the end you know she won't be. In fact they completely skip over Gwen Stacy, or any character like her. I'm okay with that but I hope they introduce her in later films. Maybe the Ultimate version of her... or possibly Spider-Gwen.
That brings me to MJ. She is in the movie and surprise, she's played by Zendaya but she's called Michelle until her last scene when she says, "My friends call me MJ." I'm absolutely okay with her being black but they didn't make her a knockout, much like how Zendaya is in real life. Peter doesn't drool over her like he does in the comics and the other movies. They made her a punk-ish girl. I guess it's just something I'll get used to. Besides, I have a feeling they'll make her a model/knock-out in future movies.
Then just as the movie ends Peter puts on his Spider-Man suit and Aunt May finds out he's Spider-Man. It was a funny moment as May stands behind Peter and just says, "What the fu..." and then the credits roll. I just don't know how I feel about her finding out so soon. I suppose they could just say that he convinced her it's just a costume and he's not actually Spider-Man but I doubt that'll happen. My guess is something will happen in Infinity War that'll make her forget he's Spider-Man.
I'll probably go see it again a couple more times!
Spider-Man film ranking:
Spider-Man: Homecoming
The Amazing Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 3
Wow, it's like this guy literally dipped his hand into my brain and pulled out my main criticisms of the film. It's nice to know I wasn't seeing things.
I'll be around to post my full thoughts, but here are the initial impressions I wrote after my first watch a night ago:
Spider-Man: Homecoming
This is a movie I know I'll need more time to absorb, much like Logan from earlier in the year. Both movies I would call solid and good, but that I have a hard time negotiating the flaws/faults of. The movie certainly isn't bad, nor did it blow my socks off and make me leave the theater fist-pumping the air like Wonder Woman. I have a long history with this character and grew up learning morality from Raimi's films, so I have my heart tied up in this as well.
My main takeaway from the film is that the Marvel formula can be both a bolster and a detriment or hindrance to this character. Yes it's cool to see Spider-Man in the same universe as his other big screen heroes like the comics come to life, but a lot of baggage also comes with that. My biggest problem with this film is that it essentially neuters Spider-Man and puts him on a leash. Tony isn't in it as much as I feared, but still far too much to the point that it begins to feel like Spidey has to share his movie instead of having it all to himself and that's not what I watch a movie of his for. I didn't care to see Tony solving his problems for him, because part of Peter's journey is doing stuff on his own. The real magic of the Raimi films is just that, where Peter must come into his own without anyone's help and face the responsibility Ben told him about fresh faced and with no cushion. I naturally hated the hand-holding that goes on between Tony and Peter in the film, because I just wanted to see more of Peter and still don't buy the surrogate father theme they're going with in the movie.
The second biggest issue I had with the film was one of scale. It feels so small, in both impact and stakes, like Spidey occupies a very flat world. The structure and pacing of the film is often all over the place and because there's never a clear organization of action beats there's no monumental climax I feel being led up to that feels like a massive finale worthy of the character. This film essentially looks like a flat graph interrupted with minor to mediate bumps to signify the points of action, whereas the Raimi films had a far better sense of pacing and planned action out more effectively to make it feel like the movie was constantly gaining momentum to something big, representing a big spike on the hypothetical graph. I don't feel that with this film, and when it ends it just ends without the amazing feeling I'm used to having with the climax of a Spidey film.
I think some of these issues may be on my side, as I still hold that Raimi's take on the character, and Tobey's performance as Peter and Spider-Man, is head-and-shoulders still the best we have. Those films were able to have the lightness of the character loom large but also contained a very adult sense of stakes where the content you were seeing was packed in consequence. Homecoming feels too much like a kid's film, and I didn't like that because Raimi was able to take the light and dark of Spider-Man's world and blend them nicely without such a tonal inconsistency occurring.
I don't want to loom over the bad, however, as I did enjoy a lot of it, namely:
*Tom Holland. On the whole, the lad is great. He is able to play up the awkward fish out of water nature of Peter well, and he is very entertaining and humorous, nailing the comedy of Spider-Man that is an essential part of the performance. I never found myself not liking him and he's easy to fall in line with. He also does a lot of his own stunts, because of his acrobatics and dancing background, giving a real impact to the action that isn't effects driven. I very much look forward to seeing this talented actor play as this character for many years to come, as he reminded me fondly of why I loved Tobey Maguire's Peter/Spider-Man so much.
*I really enjoyed the ways that the film shows anticlimactic moments in Spider-Man's life to offset the larger pieces of action, giving his crime fighting a very stark and humorous sensibility. In montages we see Spidey stopping thefts and doing a lot of leg work...and also giving old ladies directions around his neighborhood. The humor is odd but very Spider-Man. One very meta moment I loved was another time when Peter was in a race to get to a location and was swinging along until he came to a large stretch of park property where he had nothing high up to attach his webs on. With great frustration, he is forced to run after the object he wants instead of cooly flipping and flying to it. This scene reminded me of all the times I'd play the Spider-Man games and would find myself doing a bunch of cool web swinging and flips in the air, until I accidentally landed in Central Park and couldn't web swing effectively, embarrassing myself and looking foolish and lame. I like that the movie showed both the exciting and impactful moments of Peter's work, but also the tedious and disappointing parts to ground it.
*Aunt May and Peter's relationship. One of the biggest accomplishments of the Raimi films was how it built up the relationship with Peter and May, and it's one of the things that still makes me smile when I revisit them because Tobey and Rosemary Harris meshed so beautifully and May became that sweet old lady you wanted in your own family. While I don't think Tomei and Holland match that earlier pairing yet, there is great promise of that in this film and I look forward to seeing how the two of them grow together in the next films. There are a lot of sweet moments between them in this movie that I loved, where you see May trying to be a good mother to Peter even though she knows she can never have that blood connection, and Peter in the same token is trying to make her life easier because he knows how much she is still trying to face her past tragedies (implied as Ben's death).
I really loved watching these two together because they felt like a real mother and son, something that casting a younger May in the form of Tomei helped along. She and Holland have really nice and genuine chemistry that just fit, and I always wanted to see more of them.
*Michael Keaton (though not for why you'd think). I didn't love Vulture in this film, and was disappointed with some of his use, but one thing I was happy that remained was a carryover from the Raimi films, where the villains each had a sense of empathy you could attach to them.
I'll be talking more about this movie in the Marvel films thread on the forum, but I just wanted to get my immediate thoughts out now while they were fresh. In conclusion, a good, very solid movie that hits the right notes without necessarily stealing the show or really impacting in the way the originals did or how The Dark Knight did for that period in filmmaking. I think that without the Raimi films I would be easier on certain parts of the movie, but because I have such love for those movies, especially 2 which remains my favorite comic book film, it felt harder for Homecoming to stack up because I've seen so much of it done more effectively in those movies.
I would of course recommend it, for fans and non-fans alike. It's a good time movie that you could unwind to and it ultimately leaves you with a warm feeling minus any highly emotional drama or overdone angst. For fans of the character I think there is a lot to love, as the character is very much true to who Peter should be, and I loved how Holland was able to bring out the kinds of ideals I expect to see an actor do. He's carrying the torch from Tobey brilliantly and I think the movie sets up sequels that can build off this base and become the kinds of movies I'd like to see with a bigger sense of scale and stakes (and hopefully less Iron Man) with a dash of maturity to balance those tones.
I also think the post-credits are some of Marvel's best, but not for any reason you'd think, because in a very meta way they criticize a phenomenon in the industry they helped to build. Like a lot of the self-aware comedy of Homecoming, it was nice to see that they can joke with themselves as well.
People keep saying that Tom Holland's Peter Parker aka Spider-man was exactly how the character was supposed to be. I can't really agree with this assessment. It seemed as if the screenwriters couldn't make up its mind on whether to portray Peter Parker (sans the Spider-Man costume) as an introvert or an extrovert. I found it rather confusing. And it's a miracle that Tom Holland didn't, as well. Or did he?
Tony Stark WAS NOT NEEDED in this film. And he turned out to be a crappy mentor. And the way the movie resolved the Tony/Pepper romance was cheap and sloppy writing overall. Then again, their breakup was handled in a cheap and sloppy manner.
If Michelle Jones was supposed to be a new version of Mary Jane Watson, then the effort was a waste of time. She seemed like a completely new character. And frankly, the filmmakers should have kept it that way.
And could someone explain why there were Public Service Announcements featuring Captain America (Steve Rogers)? Especially since he was a wanted man by this point, following the events of "Civil War"? As for the MCU timeline overall, all I can say is . . . CONFUSING!!
I thought he got his can kicked about equally, if not more in Civil War. Ant Man and Cap both destroy him, and he ends the fight gasping for breath on the ground at the airport. In Homecoming he struggles, but doesn't get so trounced that you question his credibility; he takes hits, but hits back.
Peter is new to this whole thing, remember, so he's had to come into his own. He'd only gotten the suit from Tony literally minutes before his big fight at the airport, so he didn't have time to really know how to use it to his advantage. In this film he's still getting familiar with it and its massive horde of tools, with hundreds of different webbing options alone. That's a lot to absorb.
I didn't feel this at all. If you look into introversion and extroversion you'll find that it is a science of energies where the introverted lose energy around others and extroverts gain it in social situations. Introverts are more comfortable around the familiar, and the extroverts of the world embrace changes and new experiences. As an introvert I know this, and was able to relate to Peter's plights as he tried to fit in and avoided being so anxious about so many things.
I think many people misunderstand introverts, and think they are quiet and reserved at all times, which isn't the truth. As I stated, familiarity is a great comfort to introverts because it's through the familiar that we are able to best approach being ourselves. When Peter is in strange surroundings, like Liz's party full of strangers or in his attempts to ask her to the dance- a big step for him-he is unsure of himself and can barely get through his words as he stutters. In contrast, he is perfectly natural and himself whenever he's with Ned or Aunt May. This is because introverts are able to be extroverts in the eyes of those who they love, like friends and family, because we feel comfortable around those we know and not those we don't. My friend once told me that he saw how closeted and uncomfortable I was in crowds at dances, but was so outgoing and full of life around him, because my familiarity with him and our strong friendship allowed me to come out of my shell in a way I couldn't around strangers. I think Peter is experiencing that same thing in the film, where he comes out of his shell with Ned and May (or even Tony and Happy), but hides in other situations.
We must also realize that, through his Spider-Man persona, Peter is able to come out of his shell more than ever because he is working anonymously. Under the mask he's not awkward geek Peter Parker, he's Spider-Man, a new person that frees him from his usual human hang-ups because nobody knows the truth about him. Make sense?
I think Tony's presence could've been a lot worse, and because the point of the movie was to prove that Peter could be a hero under any circumstances, Tony needed to butt in at times to set up the moment where the young hero had to do it all on his own.
I'm writing about this particular part of the script in a long film analysis, and will get into why I think this idea of the movie works, despite my dislike of its existence in principle.
Like the Tony Stark issue, I'll be talking about this issue too in my analysis. Ultimately I don't like how MJ was wasted at times, as they could have built up her character much more, but they could still use her as a character who flowers and comes into her own through her friendship with Peter and the other kids in future films. She is very reserved and has trust issues in opening up with people, which could point to the family issues MJ has had as a character in the comics and films before, making her feel more like the character than not.
Easy-the instructional videos were produced around the time of The Avengers, as Cap's uniform is the one he used in that film. The gym teacher comments that he has to use the tapes as part of state law, and like many government arms, New York's officials were probably too lazy to have the tapes re-filmed and just stuck with having Cap in them. I thought they were hilarious, frankly, and I'm glad they were there. I'm biased as a loyal Team Cap member, but still.
As for the timeline, I'm slightly confused on it too. If Homecoming takes place in 2017 that means Avengers and the Battle of New York was in 2009, which means that all the first two Iron Man films, Hulk and the first Thor movie (and the ending to Cap's first) took place in the span of a year. Of course the timeline of any long-running series is rarely detailed simply because it's hard to chart it, like the Bond films for example. Anyway...
Well, let's not forget that we're talking about multiple heroes, each having his (or her) own adventures, and some even on other planets and in other dimensions. So, it's not really a stretch to think that said adventures can (and do happen) within the span of a year, and even at the same time. I really don't see what the problem is here.
I don't think it was played off as a joke, it was treated as a big reveal punctuated by it being obvious how much MJ likes Peter. If they aren't going to build her as the new version of the character and have her grow to be with Peter they wasted a character for a very weak and ill-advised "joke," who could've been developed more beyond a one-liner shouting machine.
I'd say this was either very poorly thought out, or they've changed their minds since the backlash and are trying to walk it back.
In some ways I'm glad, others not. It seems like such a weird choice to make. If they didn't want people breathing down their neck about Zendaya playing MJ, don't have the character referring to herself as MJ. It's on them that the backlash even happened.
Well, that's all down to perspective. For some it reads as a big reveal that falls on its face (like for me) and for others it's a fun little reference that amounts to nothing. At this stage in the game I don't think we can argue which is the more true one, as we need to see where this story goes to see if Michelle becomes a love interest for Peter as MJ has in the past, or if they remain friends and they have no destiny together.
It just seems like a poor decision to have a character call herself MJ when Marvel knows all that is attached to that character from both the comics and films. They invited outrage and comparison by trying to be funny, and failed miserably. This isn't helped by the lovey-dovey eyes MJ gives to Peter, signaling that these two are likely going to be an item down the line. If it wasn't meant to be more, don't treat it as a bigger deal than you want it to be.
I agree with @Milovy and think Feige was just covering his butt saying it was only a nod to the character. There's absolutely no point to have her say that if she wasn't the actual MJ. Not to mention why have her on the poster and not Liz? It can't be because of Zendaya's popularity because I don't know anyone who knows who she is.
Personally I think they should go with it and have her be the MJ love interest in future movies. Sure she doesn't act like MJ but I honestly think that could be a good thing. MJ is always a damsel in distress. The new MJ could be a bit tougher. As for her looks (aside from her being a different color) it would be neat to see her character grow over the course of a few movies and become the knockout MJ we all know. Zendaya is actually beautiful, when she doesn't have makeup on to make her look otherwise. As she changes throughout the movies Peter could notice her more and start to fall in love.
Anyway, just a thought that I think they could and should roll with. We'll see what happens once the next Spidey movie comes out.