Reviewing The Bond Soundtracks - You Only Live Twice

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I'd be cool with any of those, myself. Reading these pieces I've become more aware of certain recurring ideas in the scores. Fine work indeed.
  • Posts: 4,044
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yes, absolutely a marvellous thread you got going here @vzok. Some very good research done on each musical score. I wonder what's next? Could it be one of the following, what I personally think is the golden age of 007 music, that being YOLT, OHMSS or DAF?

    Well John Barry did many great Bond scores, but I’d say those three are his best. I might look at them in that order.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I played the "Train Ride" music from LALD against the film and it appears to sync up. As one would expect, the suspenseful interludes underscore the cutaway shots with Tee Hee in the baggage car.

    Though clearly, the scene didn't need any music. And the music that was composed for it is too active and busy.
  • Posts: 4,044
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I played the "Train Ride" music from LALD against the film and it appears to sync up. As one would expect, the suspenseful interludes underscore the cutaway shots with Tee Hee in the baggage car.

    Though clearly, the scene didn't need any music. And the music that was composed for it is too active and busy.

    I wonder who decided to skip that track in the movie. On the whole George Martin wasn’t afraid to leave the movie unscored, such as that long section of the boat chase. His score ends up being relatively short.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 7,507
    I seem to have missed out on this thread, regrettably. It is fantastic and I hope you will post more reviews soon!

    Just dropping in some late opinions:

    - I consider FRWL to be Barry's second best score overall. Only OHMSS beats it for me. Some of his other films were probably more memorable and had more striking tracks, but none of them enhances the film's overall atmosphere as well as the FRWL score does. Always happy to see some love for the title song too, which is up there with Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice for me.

    - I was liking Newsman's work on Skyfall quite a bit. However I was extremely disappointed with his Spectre score!

    - Martin's LALD is hands down the best non Barry score in the series for me. It is one of the main reasons I quite enjoy the film despite of its flaws. As you say it is a shame he wasn't asked to do more. Imagine how good TSWLM could have been with his music!
  • Posts: 3,333
    I cannot argue with your own choice of placing FRWL as your personal No. 1 @jobo, as it's indeed a remarkable soundtrack. I've always been extremely fond of this score and rate it very highly. The only reason I don't place it higher above my own so-called holy trinity is that Lionel Bart is responsible for the title/end song, so it's more of a collaborative piece, whereas YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are pure Barry. Of course, there's much to love about the FRWL score: James Bond With Bongos is goosebumps awesome. I'm especially fond of The Golden Horn and have always wondered where this track was originally intended to be used. I wish someone would've asked Barry when he was alive.

    I also agree with your choice of using Martin again when Barry wasn't available. I can understand the logic of going with Marvin Hamlisch for TSWLM as he was very much the Newman of his time, coming off the huge success of The Way We Were in 1974, plus he is one of ten people to win three or more Oscars in one night and the only one other than a director or screenwriter to do so. But I agree, Martin would have brought more of a Bond sound to the proceedings than Hamlisch. Same goes for FYEO for that matter.
  • Posts: 7,507
    bondsum wrote: »
    I cannot argue with your own choice of placing FRWL as your personal No. 1 @jobo, as it's indeed a remarkable soundtrack. I've always been extremely fond of this score and rate it very highly. The only reason I don't place it higher above my own so-called holy trinity is that Lionel Bart is responsible for the title/end song, so it's more of a collaborative piece, whereas YOLT, OHMSS and DAF are pure Barry. Of course, there's much to love about the FRWL score: James Bond With Bongos is goosebumps awesome. I'm especially fond of The Golden Horn and have always wondered where this track was originally intended to be used. I wish someone would've asked Barry when he was alive.

    I also agree with your choice of using Martin again when Barry wasn't available. I can understand the logic of going with Marvin Hamlisch for TSWLM as he was very much the Newman of his time, coming off the huge success of The Way We Were in 1974, plus he is one of ten people to win three or more Oscars in one night and the only one other than a director or screenwriter to do so. But I agree, Martin would have brought more of a Bond sound to the proceedings than Hamlisch. Same goes for FYEO for that matter.


    I don´t know much about Hamlich´s track record at the time, but his score is actually a nuisance for me whenever I watch Spy. I have always struggled to appreciate many scenes in the film without really knowing why, and I have gradually come to realize that in many cases the music is actually the problem. Some of the synthezised beats and melodic cues come of as tacky to me, and the film is outlandish and silly enough as it is. I already struggle to take a lot of it seriously. It didn´t an additional boost from the music in that regard. I think a better score would seriously improve my appreciation of the film. Shows how important and sensitive these things are.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Hamlisch was on fire at time. Not only from The Way We Were; he did The Sting, another huge scorei in '73, and in '75 did the music for A Chorus Line, one of the biggest Broadway successes of all time and won both a Tony and Pulitzer Prize for it.

    For his career, he earned a prestigious distinction in winning an Oscar, Emmy, Tony and Grammy. So it was no surprise Eon would jump at the chance to work with him.

    I like his TSWLM score fine. Don't find it as good or listenable as Martin's score, but it's better than numerous non-Barry scores that followed it. Burlingame's book on Bond music mentions the film has some of the least total score of the series. Hamlisch was curious to why he wasn't asked back to do another Bond score after the positive reception to TSWLM.

  • Posts: 4,044
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Hamlisch was on fire at time. Not only from The Way We Were; he did The Sting, another huge scorei in '73, and in '75 did the music for A Chorus Line, one of the biggest Broadway successes of all time and won both a Tony and Pulitzer Prize for it.

    For his career, he earned a prestigious distinction in winning an Oscar, Emmy, Tony and Grammy. So it was no surprise Eon would jump at the chance to work with him.

    I like his TSWLM score fine. Don't find it as good or listenable as Martin's score, but it's better than numerous non-Barry scores that followed it. Burlingame's book on Bond music mentions the film has some of the least total score of the series. Hamlisch was curious to why he wasn't asked back to do another Bond score after the positive reception to TSWLM.

    I know Hamlisch's score for TSWLM gets a mixed reception here, but given his success level at that time, plus the Academy nods for TSWLM, I'm not surprised he felt he should have been called on again by EON. He knew it was John Barry's gig, he just thought he'd done enough to be the first reserve.
  • Posts: 3,333
    You're absolutely right about The Sting being extremely popular music-wise, but I feel this was mostly attributed to Scott Joplin's 1902 classic piano rag called "The Entertainer" which of course he didn't compose himself. A Chorus Line was indeed the toast of Broadway, which again is another good reason why Hamlisch was approached. It's also worth noting that LALD song was nominated for an Academy Award but lost to Hamlisch's "The Way We Were".

    I suppose we could make the same case for Bill Conti, who had scored "Gonna Fly Now", also known as "Theme from Rocky". Maybe the thinking was that Conti could bring a little bit of that Rocky magic to Bond? Personally, I think TSWLM is a better score than FYEO, but only marginally. Clearly "Nobody Does It Better" is a great song, and Hamlisch did have another success with his then-girlfriend Carole Bayer Sager after this with "Through the Eyes of Love" (Theme from Ice Castles), but nowhere near to the same extent as NDIB, and certainly not in terms of musical longevity. It's funny that Hamlisch felt slightly aggrieved that he wasn't invited back again, but I'd also make the same argument for George Martin with his superior LALD score.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I love the LALD score. It’s very cool and the Gunbarrel sequence is perfect for the era.
  • edited June 2021 Posts: 4,044
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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited February 2019 Posts: 7,021
    Very good as usual.

    I prefer the film mix of the gunbarrel. It has a different, "flatter" sound to it than the album, but that makes the opening chords sound harsher, in a good way.

    Death of Henderson & Masked Assassin is one of my favorite cues from any Bond score. I love how it (and the rest of the score) uses the bass guitar, sometimes doubled with acoustic bass, for that thumpy sound.

    The melody of Fight at Kobe Dock goes on for eight more bars in the film. I wonder if they edited the cue to make it longer for the film, or edited the cue to make it shorter for the album. I'd imagine it's the latter. I prefer the film version.

    It's a good observation that the notes in Helga sound questioning. There is definitely a connection there with the beginning of Little Nellie. Not the same notes but in both scenes there is a similar musical approach to representing a sense of puzzlement.

    The Wedding is great. Roland Shaw did a good version of it as well, although it's almost too faithful to the original.

    For the Japanese-styled music, Barry is at times quite economical. At 1:01:54 in Nightfall, the melody is just made out of Bs on two octaves. Same with the music when Henderson greets Bond-- just Fs on two octaves. Quite simple but almost hypnotic.

    The music when Bond breaks out the astronauts out of jail is awesome.

    I love Countdown for Blofeld. It really sounds like Armageddon is about to happen. Ominous and epic, and fitting for the fifth film in the Connery-SPECTRE saga.

    It's another good observation that A Drop in the Ocean is combined with the ninja attack music for Bond Averts World War Three. I love the strings transition between the first and second parts of the cue.

    P.S.: You should update the title of the thread.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Thanks @mattjoes. Several interesting points there. I’ll have to check ou Kobe Dock again. Yes that Roland Shaw track is cool too.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I love the LALD score. It’s very cool and the Gunbarrel sequence is perfect for the era.

    Martin's score is the only one that deserves to be called Bondian alongside Barry's many, many excellent efforts.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    vzok wrote: »
    I’ll have to check ou Kobe Dock again.

    I mean, it's the same melody that's played again, but I like it better that way. It goes by too quickly in the album.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,722
    Just wanted to mention @vzok you are doing the Lord's work here. These re-sequencing of the tracks into a cohesive whole is something I want to do with the soundtracks when I have the time and this thread will be my textbook. Thanks for posting it in such a digestible way too.

    YOLT is currently my favourite Bond soundtrack. Mountains and Sunsets, Fight at the Kobe Docks, Capsule in Space, Death of Aki and every variation on the stunning theme tune. It is a wonderful soundtrack.

    TB, YOLT and OHMSS are very difficult for me to separate so I oscillate between the three. DAF isn't far behind. I also adore FRWL's soundtrack - although that possibly has more to do with it being my favourite 007 adventure.

    I love elements of GF - Bond back in action again, Alpine Drive, Pussy Galore's Flying Circus and the legendary Dawn Raid on Fort Knox - although this last track is a favourite of mine it also contains the ingredients of what also hinders it from just putting it on casually which is its bombastic brass and percussion sections that blast out quite a lot in the second half of the original soundtrack.

    'Into Miami' is my ringtone!
  • Posts: 4,044
    mattjoes wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    I’ll have to check ou Kobe Dock again.

    I mean, it's the same melody that's played again, but I like it better that way. It goes by too quickly in the album.

    You're quite right "Kobe Dock" is longer in the movie. It's funny the things that pass you by.


    'Into Miami' is my ringtone!

    Thanks. The curse of "Into Miami" is that it is just way too short.

  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Just wanted to mention @vzok you are doing the Lord's work here. These re-sequencing of the tracks into a cohesive whole is something I want to do with the soundtracks when I have the time and this thread will be my textbook. Thanks for posting it in such a digestible way too.

    YOLT is currently my favourite Bond soundtrack. Mountains and Sunsets, Fight at the Kobe Docks, Capsule in Space, Death of Aki and every variation on the stunning theme tune. It is a wonderful soundtrack.

    TB, YOLT and OHMSS are very difficult for me to separate so I oscillate between the three. DAF isn't far behind. I also adore FRWL's soundtrack - although that possibly has more to do with it being my favourite 007 adventure.

    I love elements of GF - Bond back in action again, Alpine Drive, Pussy Galore's Flying Circus and the legendary Dawn Raid on Fort Knox - although this last track is a favourite of mine it also contains the ingredients of what also hinders it from just putting it on casually which is its bombastic brass and percussion sections that blast out quite a lot in the second half of the original soundtrack.!

    Your thoughts and taste mirror my own.

    I have to say, while I like LALD soundtrack a lot, I so wish Barry had done it... with voodoo, New Orleans, Paul McCartney... it could have been another stellar edition. That said, I had never thought of Martin doing TSWLM... I wish that had happened too.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    vzok wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    I’ll have to check ou Kobe Dock again.

    I mean, it's the same melody that's played again, but I like it better that way. It goes by too quickly in the album.

    You're quite right "Kobe Dock" is longer in the movie. It's funny the things that pass you by.
    I just listened to the film audio and it seems the album track presents the cue exactly as recorded, with the film repeating a few bars to make it longer. In the film, both times the trumpet melody is heard before jumping up an octave, the performance and length seem to be exactly the same, which means they copied and pasted the music. I imagine the scene ended up being longer than originally intended.

    There was reason to think the album might've been edited down from the film cue, since that was the case with the OHMSS title music and Dawn Raid at Fort Knox. But it's not the case here.
  • Posts: 4,044
    mattjoes wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    I’ll have to check ou Kobe Dock again.

    I mean, it's the same melody that's played again, but I like it better that way. It goes by too quickly in the album.

    You're quite right "Kobe Dock" is longer in the movie. It's funny the things that pass you by.
    I just listened to the film audio and it seems the album track presents the cue exactly as recorded, with the film repeating a few bars to make it longer. In the film, both times the trumpet melody is heard before jumping up an octave, the performance and length seem to be exactly the same, which means they copied and pasted the music. I imagine the scene ended up being longer than originally intended.

    There was reason to think the album might've been edited down from the film cue, since that was the case with the OHMSS title music and Dawn Raid at Fort Knox. But it's not the case here.

    Thanks for clearing that up. I remembered about OHMSS being edited down, but not "Fort Knox" - another one I'll have to check out.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    vzok wrote: »
    You Only Live Twice - John Barry



    Bond Averts World War Three is track 11. "Ninja Attack" is countered with the dramatic stabs from "A Drop In The Ocean". I love how John Barry can layer two tracks over each other to great effect. The second half is another pacy version of "Capsule". Time is running out Bond.



    Hi,
    I came across this little gem by the Johnny Keating Orchestra: "Sam Benedict"


    From 1:24 onwards (sorry, time stamp doesn't seem to work on the video) it sounds very much like the bits in "Bond Averts World War Three" and the rhythm behind most of "A Drop in the Ocean" (which is considerably faster, but still the same beat).

    Sam Benedict was a TV show with the title track composed by Barry Nelson in 1962, but Johnny Keating's arrangement is from 1963, so 4 years before John Barry composed the YOLT score. To me it seems that Barry must have heard the tune and was inspired to copy this arrangement into his own score.

    Is there a John Barry specialist out there who could confirm or reject my idea?

    Thanks for listening!

  • zebrafish wrote: »
    vzok wrote: »
    You Only Live Twice - John Barry



    Bond Averts World War Three is track 11. "Ninja Attack" is countered with the dramatic stabs from "A Drop In The Ocean". I love how John Barry can layer two tracks over each other to great effect. The second half is another pacy version of "Capsule". Time is running out Bond.



    Hi,
    I came across this little gem by the Johnny Keating Orchestra: "Sam Benedict"


    From 1:24 onwards (sorry, time stamp doesn't seem to work on the video) it sounds very much like the bits in "Bond Averts World War Three" and the rhythm behind most of "A Drop in the Ocean" (which is considerably faster, but still the same beat).

    Sam Benedict was a TV show with the title track composed by Barry Nelson in 1962, but Johnny Keating's arrangement is from 1963, so 4 years before John Barry composed the YOLT score. To me it seems that Barry must have heard the tune and was inspired to copy this arrangement into his own score.

    Is there a John Barry specialist out there who could confirm or reject my idea?

    Thanks for listening!
    It doesn’t really sound like “Bond Averts World War III” but it does sound like Barry’s famous “007 theme”. I suppose you could say that the 007 theme is incorporated in some capacity in that YOLT track but to my ears that Sam Benedict piece sounds like a more straightforward version of the 007 theme, as heard in FRWL. Not so much YOLT.

  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,341
    I disagree, this has nothing to do with the 007 theme.
    I am talking of the brass melody between 1:28 and 1:45. It comes in only two pitches (low/higher) and goes something like this (sorry, I am no musician and can't express this in notes):

    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_lolo_lolo
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_lolo_lolo

    Barry seems to take this and has it played by wind instruments (I believe).



    It starts at 0:13 and ends at 0:25:
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__

    It's the same idea, basically, taken to dramatic effect.
    (I definitively should learn how to transcribe the phrases - I have a feeling I am making a fool of myself). Is there a musician around who can better describe what I mean and if this sounds plausible?
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 654
    zebrafish wrote: »
    I disagree, this has nothing to do with the 007 theme.
    I am talking of the brass melody between 1:28 and 1:45. It comes in only two pitches (low/higher) and goes something like this (sorry, I am no musician and can't express this in notes):

    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_lolo_lolo
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_hihi_hihi
    lolo_lo_lo_lo_lolo_lolo

    Barry seems to take this and has it played by wind instruments (I believe).



    It starts at 0:13 and ends at 0:25:
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__
    lololo_lololo_lo_lo_hihi__

    It's the same idea, basically, taken to dramatic effect.
    (I definitively should learn how to transcribe the phrases - I have a feeling I am making a fool of myself). Is there a musician around who can better describe what I mean and if this sounds plausible?
    I see what you mean but I still say it’s just a variation of the “007 theme”. It’s just that at the end the final notes are held high instead of coming back down like in the original version of the 007 theme from FRWL.

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    Somewhat off-topic, but for anyone interested, there is a 5 page interview/profile of Nancy Sinatra in the February 2021 issue of the UK music magazine “Mojo.”

    MOJO-327-cover-John-Lennon-1000.jpg?format=1000w
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I love this thread, and would love it if it was resurrected at some point. No pressure intended, @vzok .
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