Controversial opinions about other movies

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I'm with Dimi, the Hockey mask is better than the sack, especially the later versions, where you can't see the eyes.

    NcMD.gif

    As with his Shatner mask wearing rival, there is something sinister about not seeing the eyes.
  • Posts: 15,132
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    I disagree. They stole the design from The Town That Dreaded Sundown. Hockey mask Jason is where it's at for me.

    To be fair, Friday the 13th is the franchise that stole the most from other horror films.
  • Posts: 16,170
    Hahaha! Okay, I'll go with everyone else. The hockey mask IS better.
    I watched Part 2 yesterday for the first time. I kind of thought that looked like a pillow case on his head .LOL!
  • GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,188
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄
  • Posts: 16,170
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    That scene was pretty funny!
  • edited May 2022 Posts: 6,844
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)
  • Posts: 16,170
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)

    Ebert's ranting about the film was hilarious! He really hated these movies. :D
  • ToTheRight wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)

    Ebert's ranting about the film was hilarious! He really hated these movies. :D

    Oh they bashed every Friday the 13th ever made. Paramount stopped letting them use film clips in their reviews after the third one I believe.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)

    Ebert's ranting about the film was hilarious! He really hated these movies. :D

    I truly miss him. Even if I didn’t agree with him. Siskel, not so much. Controversial opinion: Siskel was a example of a modern day fanboy. Just read his average James Bond review, and his biased love for Sean Connery.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)

    Ebert's ranting about the film was hilarious! He really hated these movies. :D

    I truly miss him. Even if I didn’t agree with him. Siskel, not so much. Controversial opinion: Siskel was a example of a modern day fanboy. Just read his average James Bond review, and his biased love for Sean Connery.

    Funnily, he still rated FYEO pretty high, complimenting it by comparing it favorably with RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK.
  • edited May 2022 Posts: 16,170
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Controversial opinion:

    The hockey mask is criminally overrated. Jason looks cooler and more dangerous in that burlap sack thingy.

    Friday-the-13th-Part-II-scaled.jpg

    No that F13 is cinema gold for me, but I like Part 2 the best.

    Virtual high five!

    Remember that this is the one with the warning to keep clean, girls, because of the bears. 😉😄

    As Siskel put it, it's a marvelous outdoor adventure picture with a message. ;)

    Ebert's ranting about the film was hilarious! He really hated these movies. :D

    I truly miss him. Even if I didn’t agree with him. Siskel, not so much. Controversial opinion: Siskel was a example of a modern day fanboy. Just read his average James Bond review, and his biased love for Sean Connery.

    Funnily, he still rated FYEO pretty high, complimenting it by comparing it favorably with RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK.

    He also liked OP, whereas Ebert felt it was too formulaic.
  • edited May 2022 Posts: 6,844
    Siskel and Ebert knew their stuff when it came to film, but at the end of the day they were just as susceptible as everyone else is to enjoy a complete turkey and find grounds on which to defend it as good cinema. Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Had their tastes skewed differently, either Siskel or Ebert might very easily have praised the entire series as good, silly fun. I can just hear either one of them saying, “It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but it hits the right spot and delivers everything you would expect it to. Thumbs up from me.”
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited May 2022 Posts: 7,021
    Siskel and Ebert knew their stuff when it came to film, but at the end of the day they were just as susceptible as everyone else is to enjoy a complete turkey and find grounds on which to defend it as good cinema. Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Had their tastes skewed differently, either Siskel or Ebert might very easily have praised the entire series as good, silly fun. I can just hear either one of them saying, “It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but it hits the right spot and delivers everything you would expect it to. Thumbs up from me.”

    "You know Gene, for all its spectacle, Congo is missing something important, and that is the kid in the wheelchair who has his head hacked open by a machete."

    Lawrence of Arabia is a good film, but how many kids in wheelchairs had their heads hacked open by a machete in it? That's right.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    To be fair, they did praise slashers they thought had merit like HALLOWEEN. It’s just that FRIDAY THE 13TH was a blatant cash grab that ripped off PSYCHO and HALLOWEEN, but gave nothing to offer in terms of style or suspense. I get why they think they were wastes of time. It was more about the style of kills than suspense, and there were never really any characters to be invested in because they were treated more like sitting ducks.

    That said, their disdain for those films was so over the top and it was especially wrong to publish the addresses of the actors and filmmakers for people to show up in protest.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    I will have to rewatch Psycho, but I don't remember that many people dying in it. I can think of two, off the top of my head: Marion Crane and Milton Arbogast.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    To be fair, I have nothing to say on this matter but I wanted to continue the trend of starting posts with "to be fair."

    Okay, I do have something to say.

    Siskel and Ebert knew their stuff when it came to film, but at the end of the day they were just as susceptible as everyone else is to enjoy a complete turkey and find grounds on which to defend it as good cinema. Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Had their tastes skewed differently, either Siskel or Ebert might very easily have praised the entire series as good, silly fun. I can just hear either one of them saying, “It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but it hits the right spot and delivers everything you would expect it to. Thumbs up from me.”
    I've never send a F13 film in full; my curiosity isn't that strong. That might change someday, who knows. So by default I prefer Congo, and actually I really like Congo. It also introduced the world to Herkermer Homolka, formerly of Romania, free now of the chains of Ceaușescu, traveling the world doing good. That aspect must not be underestimated.

    But regarding the main point of your post, as far as I'm concerned, one person's treasure is another person's garbage. We discover films (and books and everything) in a different order, at different points of our lives, in different circumstances, so we're bound to get different things out of them, and assign them different value. That's why I'm not big on sweeping statements like "false sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it."

    That said, I still get a valuable, deeper point out of those two sentences, not related to Congo in particular: to try to be authentic in one's taste. You like what you like.

    ---

    I don't know if you people were talking about F13: The New Blood here or in another thread, but that film's deleted head crush is, well, crushing to watch. Most gruesome kill I've seen in those films.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    Only 6 people die onscreen in Friday The 13th, too. Halloween absolutely is a slasher movie. Masked villain? Check. Bladed weapon? Check. Horny teenagers? Check. The sweeter, more innocent leading girl? Check. It's all there.

    Pyscho, though? Yes, I'd say it is less a slasher in itself but an undeniable influence for what was to come. It's a serial killer movie with a couple of iconic moments that clearly lingered in people's minds, and slasher horror producers expanded on those primal fears.
  • Posts: 16,170
    I watched FRIDAY THE 13th PART TWO after seeing Siskel and Ebert's review just for the scene in which the kid in the wheelchair gets hacked by a machete.
    Funny thing, that "kid" looks about 30 years old!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,188
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I watched FRIDAY THE 13th PART TWO after seeing Siskel and Ebert's review just for the scene in which the kid in the wheelchair gets hacked by a machete.
    Funny thing, that "kid" looks about 30 years old!

    'Kids' in slasher films are rarely any younger than 20 or 25.
  • Posts: 1,917
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I watched FRIDAY THE 13th PART TWO after seeing Siskel and Ebert's review just for the scene in which the kid in the wheelchair gets hacked by a machete.
    Funny thing, that "kid" looks about 30 years old!

    'Kids' in slasher films are rarely any younger than 20 or 25.

    I hate to admit I know this, but Corey Feldman was an exception in New Blood or part 4 or whatever that was called.
  • Posts: 16,170
    I watched JASON LIVES last night. Didn't have quite the same feel as the earlier films, really a nod the the Universal Horrors. Also a quick Bond homage during the titles.
    I liked it enough, but it did seem more of a parody that a typical entry.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    I will have to rewatch Psycho, but I don't remember that many people dying in it. I can think of two, off the top of my head: Marion Crane and Milton Arbogast.

    Maybe not “slashers” in the sense that they are about the kills, but those two along with TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE are very much considered the progenitors of what became the slasher.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited May 2022 Posts: 1,711
    Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Yes, really! Ebert's Congo review is right on the money. The movie is pretty much completely tongue-in-cheek. Watch Tim Curry, Joe Don Baker, or Ernie Hudson: it couldn't be more obvious. Bruce bloody Campbell is in it! One character even breaks the fourth wall, referring to the fact that they are in a movie!

    More good quotes from that review: "[Congo] is based on a novel by Michael Crichton, who is said to be unhappy about what they've done with his book. Since it is impossible to imagine this material being played for anything but laughs, maybe he should be grateful."

    "...The filmmakers have cheerfully turned it into an action comedy, and the actors have gone a step further, treating it like one of those movies like "Beat the Devil" that is a put-on of itself. The result is not a movie that is very good, exactly, but it's entertaining and funny."

    Congo is a wonderful comedic throwback to the jungle adventure genre, and Ebert got it. Most other critics (and perhaps Dylan Walsh?) did not.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,144
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    I will have to rewatch Psycho, but I don't remember that many people dying in it. I can think of two, off the top of my head: Marion Crane and Milton Arbogast.

    Indeed, Bay of Blood immediately comes to mind when watching the first few F13 films, even though none of the F13 directors come even close to the greatness of Bava. Great part for Claudine Auger in BoB as well of course.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    I will have to rewatch Psycho, but I don't remember that many people dying in it. I can think of two, off the top of my head: Marion Crane and Milton Arbogast.

    Indeed, Bay of Blood immediately comes to mind when watching the first few F13 films, even though none of the F13 directors come even close to the greatness of Bava. Great part for Claudine Auger in BoB as well of course.

    I love F13, but I wouldn't dare suggest that. Bavas films had style and flair. At least they did when he wasn't being screwed over a barrel by the studio.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited May 2022 Posts: 24,188
    BT3366 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I watched FRIDAY THE 13th PART TWO after seeing Siskel and Ebert's review just for the scene in which the kid in the wheelchair gets hacked by a machete.
    Funny thing, that "kid" looks about 30 years old!

    'Kids' in slasher films are rarely any younger than 20 or 25.

    I hate to admit I know this, but Corey Feldman was an exception in New Blood or part 4 or whatever that was called.

    The Final Chapter (my favourite!). And yes, indeed, but Corey wasn't sexualised in that film, unlike pretty much everyone else. Good thing too, knowing what we know now.

    I have great respect for Corey. What happened to him... Sad. Just sad.
    To be fair, there was a fair amount of suspense in the first Friday The 13th, but focus on the kills, more specifically the inventive deaths, is what slashers are about.

    And I disagree on Psycho and Halloween, they aren’t slashers. Only 5 people die in Halloween, one of them being off screen. The seasonal setting was an inspiration on Sean S. Cunningham, as was the campfire tale of Cropsy, but Friday The 13th owes more debt to Mario Bava's A Bay Of Blood.

    I will have to rewatch Psycho, but I don't remember that many people dying in it. I can think of two, off the top of my head: Marion Crane and Milton Arbogast.

    Maybe not “slashers” in the sense that they are about the kills, but those two along with TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE are very much considered the progenitors of what became the slasher.

    It's funny how the term "slasher" can spark so many semantic discussions. I'm more an "I'll recognise it when I see it" kinda guy. ;-)
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    To be fair, I have nothing to say on this matter but I wanted to continue the trend of starting posts with "to be fair."

    Okay, I do have something to say.

    Siskel and Ebert knew their stuff when it came to film, but at the end of the day they were just as susceptible as everyone else is to enjoy a complete turkey and find grounds on which to defend it as good cinema. Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Had their tastes skewed differently, either Siskel or Ebert might very easily have praised the entire series as good, silly fun. I can just hear either one of them saying, “It’s not Lawrence of Arabia, but it hits the right spot and delivers everything you would expect it to. Thumbs up from me.”
    I've never send a F13 film in full; my curiosity isn't that strong. That might change someday, who knows. So by default I prefer Congo, and actually I really like Congo. It also introduced the world to Herkermer Homolka, formerly of Romania, free now of the chains of Ceaușescu, traveling the world doing good. That aspect must not be underestimated.

    But regarding the main point of your post, as far as I'm concerned, one person's treasure is another person's garbage. We discover films (and books and everything) in a different order, at different points of our lives, in different circumstances, so we're bound to get different things out of them, and assign them different value. That's why I'm not big on sweeping statements like "false sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it."

    That said, I still get a valuable, deeper point out of those two sentences, not related to Congo in particular: to try to be authentic in one's taste. You like what you like.

    To be fair, it's been a long time since I've seen Congo. It does have a very good cast. I was just using it as an example of a lesser acclaimed film that Ebert really liked and may have gotten a bit hyperbolic about.

    Just to cover my bases, he also gave favorable reviews to Ghosts of Mars and Garfield: The Movie. ;)

    "Ghosts of Mars delivers on its chosen level and I enjoyed it," wrote Ebert. Fair enough. Ghosts of Mars is the kind of film that should be right up my alley, but I thought it was pretty poorly made by Carpenter's standards. I'm not sure how Ghosts of Mars succeeds at its level and Friday the 13th doesn't, but that's where personal taste plays a hand.

    I agree, we like what we like. Our tastes don't have to align with the multitudes.

    mattjoes wrote: »
    I don't know if you people were talking about F13: The New Blood here or in another thread, but that film's deleted head crush is, well, crushing to watch. Most gruesome kill I've seen in those films.

    The censors went totally Jason on The New Blood and hacked all the work that went into the kills to bits. It's got to be the least gory F13 of them all. But at least it still has that fantastic zombie Jason makeup.

    Ebert liked and defended Congo, for example. Is Congo a better film than the whole of Friday the 13th? Not according to either critics or audiences in general. Yet Ebert writes, "False sophisticates will scorn it. Real sophisticates will relish it." Really?

    Yes, really! Ebert's Congo review is right on the money. The movie is pretty much completely tongue-in-cheek. Watch Tim Curry, Joe Don Baker, or Ernie Hudson: it couldn't be more obvious. Bruce bloody Campbell is in it! One character even breaks the fourth wall, referring to the fact that they are in a movie!

    More good quotes from that review: "[Congo] is based on a novel by Michael Crichton, who is said to be unhappy about what they've done with his book. Since it is impossible to imagine this material being played for anything but laughs, maybe he should be grateful."

    "...The filmmakers have cheerfully turned it into an action comedy, and the actors have gone a step further, treating it like one of those movies like "Beat the Devil" that is a put-on of itself. The result is not a movie that is very good, exactly, but it's entertaining and funny."

    Congo is a wonderful comedic throwback to the jungle adventure genre, and Ebert got it. Most other critics (and perhaps Dylan Walsh?) did not.

    I evidently have to go into my next viewing of Congo expecting comedy!

    It may also be that Ebert was just really into jungle adventures because he also praised Anaconda...which to be fair is plain, good entertainment after all. ;)
  • Posts: 15,132
    Regarding Siskel and Ebert, I find their review of Excalibur absolutely baffling. That said, they were often spot on, even when they disagreed with each other, if that makes sense. I find their negative review of Patch Adams right on the money and, given that Siskel was very sick at the time, particularly poignant.

    Maybe not a controversial opinion, but I find myself more interested about old films I've watched thousands of times than new releases.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I evidently have to go into my next viewing of Congo expecting comedy!

    It may also be that Ebert was just really into jungle adventures because he also praised Anaconda...which to be fair is plain, good entertainment after all. ;)

    You Congo wrong with Congo. Or Anaconda.
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