No Time to Die production thread

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  • Posts: 625
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Wright isn t the first black Leiter. That was Bernie Casey.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)

    I think Casey was a better Leiter than Wright, too.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)

    I think Casey was a better Leiter than Wright, too.

    He is still the best
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQKDkLe484y3d6bMSw0MKj3asnWKZlScqnIRcZx8CUcmQEE-FsR&usqp=CAU
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    shamanimal wrote: »
    I'm sorry the idea of a black Bond depresses you. lol

    Not wanting a black Bond is different from not wanting a black doctor or a black newscaster. Perhaps you can't see that difference, and that's okay. But this has been discussed a lot on here and I've nothing new to add, but I I will say I don't appreciate your snide finger wagging.
    Keep laughing, smiler!

    I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor, just like I don't think Shaft should be played by a white actor.

    Except the two are incomparable.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)

    I think Casey was a better Leiter than Wright, too.
    I don’t know if I’d say he’s better cause I love Wright in the role, but I definitely would’ve liked to have seen him play Felix in the main series around that time :)
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)

    I think Casey was a better Leiter than Wright, too.

    He is still the best
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQKDkLe484y3d6bMSw0MKj3asnWKZlScqnIRcZx8CUcmQEE-FsR&usqp=CAU
    I think the casting of Billy Magnussen was actually an inspired choice for Ash, whatever role he plays, cause he really reminds of the Jack Lord-type Felix - based on his look in the film alone.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I don’t really get the comparison with Shaft if I’m being honest. I get what you’re saying, but Shaft was a character created to be a black man, and to represent black culture, something not many spy novels/films wanted to do.

    James Bond, on the other hand, was created as a white man, yes, but was created to represent British culture, not “white culture”, and to me, British culture is also represented in how multicultural we’ve become and continue to be. So to me, James Bond becoming a black man makes way more contextual sense than casting a white man as Shaft ever could.

    This is exactly right. We’ve had this exact conversation in this thread what feels like a hundred times now. :))
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Also let’s not forget about Felix Leiter and Moneypenny.

    When Jeffrey Wright was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Felix Leiter".
    When Naomie Harris was cast I remember no newspaper headline saying "The first black Moneypenny".

    Someday the time will have come for the first black actor to portray James Bond.
    But that time only has come when the colour of his skin will not be the topic in the media.

    It worked with Leiter and Moneypenny. But I doubt, that it will work with Bond yet.

    For sure we will read headlines like "XY becomes the first black James Bond".
    And as long as this is NEWS, the times are not ready for it.

    The headlines should read like "XY becomes the new James Bond." Nothing more. No mention of the skin colour. But I'm afraid we're not there yet.

    Because: poor actor, that will be reduced by the media to his skin colour, when he is cast. Lashana Lynch said in a recent interview when asked about the black 00 agent topic: "It should be no topic, that I play a black 00 agent." But journalists still bring this topic up, when they do interviews with her. And that's a sign, that something has to change, BEFORE a black actor becomes James Bond.
    I agree @Jan1985, whether it’s even possible for such casting or not, there’s still the hurdle of the press and those who are really against it. And yeah he was @Thunderfinger, that’s always a great bit of Bond trivia :)

    I think Casey was a better Leiter than Wright, too.

    He is still the best
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQKDkLe484y3d6bMSw0MKj3asnWKZlScqnIRcZx8CUcmQEE-FsR&usqp=CAU

    Maybe not the best, but he is good. Good Lord.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    shamanimal wrote: »
    I'm sorry the idea of a black Bond depresses you. lol

    Not wanting a black Bond is different from not wanting a black doctor or a black newscaster. Perhaps you can't see that difference, and that's okay. But this has been discussed a lot on here and I've nothing new to add, but I I will say I don't appreciate your snide finger wagging.
    Keep laughing, smiler!

    I don't think Bond should be played by a black actor, just like I don't think Shaft should be played by a white actor.

    Except the two are incomparable.

    They're very comparable. That's why the conversation keeps being had and why it's always used as an example.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,546
    Well, this is certainly not a conversation I’m having again. Just because it’s “always used” doesn’t make it an apt comparison. It’s been articulately explained why, in this thread and others.
    And I was mistaken, I thought this was the “who could be a bond actor” thread.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited June 2020 Posts: 8,205
    Not much to talk about until marketing kicks back into gear again!

    Conversely, it's been also explained why it certainly is an apt comparison numerous times. So I guess there's just an element of agreeing to disagree involved.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Not much to talk about until marketing kicks back into gear again!

    This is a fact we can agree on. :P
  • Posts: 727
    Thoughts of a black Bond depresses my dimple because I can't stop smiling.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Should the Nov. release date stick, any bets as to when marketing will resume? August?
  • Posts: 727
    They should release 50 second snippets of random clips from the movie every week. Let us piece it together as if you would piece together a puzzle.
  • phantomvicesphantomvices Mother Base
    Posts: 469
    They should release 50 second snippets of random clips from the movie every week. Let us piece it together as if you would piece together a puzzle.

    Would be fun for us, but likely never gonna happen.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,022
    No Time to Die, Daniel Craig's final James Bond movie, won't set a new record as the biggest live-action Thanksgiving release of all time.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/06/14/james-bond-new-release-for-daniel-craig-date-costs-no-time-to-die-box-office-record/#6950e31b3394

  • Posts: 440
    Contraband wrote: »
    No Time to Die, Daniel Craig's final James Bond movie, won't set a new record as the biggest live-action Thanksgiving release of all time.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/06/14/james-bond-new-release-for-daniel-craig-date-costs-no-time-to-die-box-office-record/#6950e31b3394

    Given how up in the air everything is at the current moment, who knows if it will even release in November at this point?

    I have no doubt, mind you, that plenty of people want to back to the theatres but I'm not sure if it's a very wise idea. Especially since different cities in different countries all seem to be following their own policies.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2020 Posts: 15,713
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    “Now it’ll just be another ridiculously successful pre-Thanksgiving action movie.“

    Liking the optimism.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,022
    Contraband wrote: »
    No Time to Die, Daniel Craig's final James Bond movie, won't set a new record as the biggest live-action Thanksgiving release of all time.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2020/06/14/james-bond-new-release-for-daniel-craig-date-costs-no-time-to-die-box-office-record/#6950e31b3394

    Given how up in the air everything is at the current moment, who knows if it will even release in November at this point?

    I have no doubt, mind you, that plenty of people want to back to the theatres but I'm not sure if it's a very wise idea. Especially since different cities in different countries all seem to be following their own policies.

    Actually I could care less about the opening debate. I was just being nice posting a link.

    Although the production phase is over, it's more fun digging up new material like behind-the-scenes stills, footage, sniffing out plot details.. Gotta live up to my rep. as the master of research
  • Posts: 1,970
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?
  • Posts: 97
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?
    Exactly. The main reason it's down that much is not that people are scared to go back to cinemas. It's that theaters aren't showing anything new yet.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2020 Posts: 15,713
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?

    Only major release playing in Japan at the moment: Birds of Prey. Last year on the same weekend: Captain Marvel, Bumblebee Into the Spider-Verse, Green Book.

    But remember that it is currently impossible to release more than 1 major film, as limited capacity is in effect. And so far, no big budget film has been released under these rules. Until one comes out, we are debating about the unknown.
    The_Return wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?
    Exactly. The main reason it's down that much is not that people are scared to go back to cinemas. It's that theaters aren't showing anything new yet.

    Again, the amount of new releases will be extremely limited due to social distancing measures. And so far zero big budget film has attempted to come out under such limitations. We may still be more than 2 months away from the first attempt. If Tenet/Mulan/whatever releases and we see that the box office gross is severely limited, we will see an exodus of nearly every major 2020 films to next year.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?

    Only major release playing in Japan at the moment: Birds of Prey. Last year on the same weekend: Captain Marvel, Bumblebee Into the Spider-Verse, Green Book.

    But remember that it is currently impossible to release more than 1 major film, as limited capacity is in effect. And so far, no big budget film has been released under these rules. Until one comes out, we are debating about the unknown.
    The_Return wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?
    Exactly. The main reason it's down that much is not that people are scared to go back to cinemas. It's that theaters aren't showing anything new yet.

    Again, the amount of new releases will be extremely limited due to social distancing measures. And so far zero big budget film has attempted to come out under such limitations. We may still be more than 2 months away from the first attempt. If Tenet/Mulan/whatever releases and we see that the box office gross is severely limited, we will see an exodus of nearly every major 2020 films to next year.

    But with ferewer choices, multiplexes will be able to offer a big film like W84 and NTTD in even more theaters, simultaneously to make up for 30-50% capacity.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    TripAces wrote: »
    But with ferewer choices, multiplexes will be able to offer a big film like W84 and NTTD in even more theaters, simultaneously to make up for 30-50% capacity.

    That is true, but we first have to see how Tenet will fair in July/August, assuming it does not get delayed again.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    TripAces wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?

    Only major release playing in Japan at the moment: Birds of Prey. Last year on the same weekend: Captain Marvel, Bumblebee Into the Spider-Verse, Green Book.

    But remember that it is currently impossible to release more than 1 major film, as limited capacity is in effect. And so far, no big budget film has been released under these rules. Until one comes out, we are debating about the unknown.
    The_Return wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    After 1 month since Japan's movie theaters have reopened, Japan's weekly box office is down to 5% ($790,000) of the usual gross from the same time period in 2019 ($14 million).

    Japan is one of the most successful countries in handling the Covid-19 pandemic (17,502 cases & 925 deaths).

    https://qz.com/1868938/japans-slow-box-office-recovery-may-be-a-harbinger-for-hollywood

    What big movies are out tho?
    Exactly. The main reason it's down that much is not that people are scared to go back to cinemas. It's that theaters aren't showing anything new yet.

    Again, the amount of new releases will be extremely limited due to social distancing measures. And so far zero big budget film has attempted to come out under such limitations. We may still be more than 2 months away from the first attempt. If Tenet/Mulan/whatever releases and we see that the box office gross is severely limited, we will see an exodus of nearly every major 2020 films to next year.

    But with ferewer choices, multiplexes will be able to offer a big film like W84 and NTTD in even more theaters, simultaneously to make up for 30-50% capacity.

    That is why I was saying that having an entire month with absolutely zero competition could be a turning point box-office wise for NTTD. Hopefully the so-called second wave won’t strike in that timeframe...
  • RedNineRedNine Poland
    Posts: 71
    tqb wrote: »
    RedNine wrote: »
    Can we stop with the myth that "Bond changes with the times he's in" ? The only real changes that happen to Bond throughout the series is his height, weight, color and length of his hair. The thing that changes is world around Bond, not himself. He did not have long hair and beard when hippies were cool, he did not have a mohawk when Punk was the thing, he did not have an earring or geled spiky hair or dyed blond hair in the 90s. He's always wearing rather smart clothes, drives expensive car, behave in a very similar way throughout those years.

    Of course Bond changes with the time. Just as one small example, he's not going around smacking girls asses and saying "Man talk".

    Well now he enters the shower when the girl is already there which apparently is 10 times worse I learned
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    RedNine wrote: »
    tqb wrote: »
    RedNine wrote: »
    Can we stop with the myth that "Bond changes with the times he's in" ? The only real changes that happen to Bond throughout the series is his height, weight, color and length of his hair. The thing that changes is world around Bond, not himself. He did not have long hair and beard when hippies were cool, he did not have a mohawk when Punk was the thing, he did not have an earring or geled spiky hair or dyed blond hair in the 90s. He's always wearing rather smart clothes, drives expensive car, behave in a very similar way throughout those years.

    Of course Bond changes with the time. Just as one small example, he's not going around smacking girls asses and saying "Man talk".

    Well now he enters the shower when the girl is already there which apparently is 10 times worse I learned

    Or hitting on a widow just after her husband's funeral ;)
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