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I’m in the same boat really - I don’t think it’s a film I’ll revisit soon. I didn’t mind it though and would say it’s one of Nolan’s better films in this stretch of his career (definitely his most technically accomplished as a filmmaker -between his bizarre sound design choices and a number of oddly edited/staged sequences in a few of his bigger films this is a noticeable improvement).
I did have an idea for an editor: you could edit the whole movie evenly into 60 three-minute trailers, and it would probably work. Watch the film in capsule form, call it "Oppenheimer: Atomised", put it on TikTok.
You could probably say this of most of Nolan’s films, if not all. It’s due to how he has the editing and music paced in a way that things always feel like they’re moving at a certain pace. That’s part of why his scenes feel less like scenes and more like excerpts of scenes.
It stuck out to me with THE DARK KNIGHT where we have a scene between Gordon and Dent that ends after Gordon denied having heard of nicknames for Dent. If doesn’t feel like a scene ending but rather a quick cutaway. I think that’s just the style of editing he’s accustomed to.
Yes, they were great. But typical themes and styles of both directors. And neither needed to be 3 hours long! I do see Oscars for Downey Jr (for comebacks purposes) Gladstone (for honestly woke reasons). Although, she did a great job. I’m sorry, but that is how the Oscars work now.
@MaxCasino , what do you mean by typical themes of these directors. I'm not sure Scorsese has done a film quite like the one in Killers? And I agree with the style, for Oppenheimer... That's how Nolan shoots his films, but Scorsese? His film "style" seems ever-moving, depending on the subject, no?
I suppose there are similarities with Mean Streets and Goodfellas, but then I see stark contrasts between those two films and Casino, and all of those films are quite different than The Irishman.
Then does one truly think Raging Bull is the same style as The Last Temptation of Christ, or Silence? Or The King of Comedy is really in the same style as Killers? I strongly disagree that stylistically this is same old, same old for Scorsese, because I can never nail down what his style actually is. That's why I admire him: he can effortlessly makes The Aviator, or Hugo....
Yeah, I know what you mean, but I've never felt it to be as out of control as here. I don't dislike his general style--it's cool how he can slide into montage multiple times in a film without being too corny because it aligns a bit with everything else--but in his other films there seems to be an ebb and a flow and it's not trailer mode all the time. I wasn't being hyperbolic or anything--practically every moment in the first half of Oppenheimer feels like a trailer. I did watch the film in two pieces unfortunately, and this really heightened that effect.
A recurring theme in Scorsese’s movies is that a lot things just happen, more often than not. As he jokingly said about The Departed, “this is the first movie that I’ve made that actually has a plot.” I enjoy him, though, he is one of the greatest filmmakers ever. Every artist has recurring themes, I wasn’t criticizing Scorsese for going back them. At least he generally tries something different every time.
Don't want to make this the Scorsese appreciation thread, but I just watched After Hours for the first time, and it is a wonderful "things just happen" movie!
@MaxCasino , i know he was joking with The Departed, but I'm not sure his films have stories where things "just happen", and if that was the case, then Killers of the Flower Moon isn't that at all; it's a very deliberate plot; the theme is one that explores the evil of man, that Scorsese and others have repeatedly gone back to, but that's not the only theme he has explored in his extensive filmography.
@mattjoes , care to elaborate?
I know @peter I’m not looking for a fight/debate. As I said before, I greatly appreciate him. He doesn’t repeat himself with the same thing over and over again (Woody Allen, take note post 70s). I just feel that he’s done a bit better than KOTFM. However, I will always give him (and his crews) points for taking chances and experimenting. And not going overboard with perfectionism (Stanley Kubrick would probably be investigated for his treatment of actors today).
I thought I should put this in there as I've noted that in some areas on this site, temperatures are up and I think some of this is due to misinterpretations of one's intent when posting.
So, to be clear, I'm curious about your point, because I see that Scorsese's style really can change from film to film. That's all.
Ok, my bad. I see where you’re coming from now, with his style now. However, as I said before, every artist has themes and trademarks that they go back to. Scorsese is no different, with certain movies using a scene from the middle or end of the movie and putting it at the beginning. Or using New York City as a common place in his movies. I trust him when I watch one of his movies (same with Christopher Nolan, staying on thread topic), he treats people and his material well.
An odd choice that a director would remake one of his own movies. Has this been done before? Or is this the reason why he's doing it.
Tenet is the only real blip on his resume thus far. I enjoyed his Batman trilogy, and in a similar vein as Scorsese he does have a varied style of the type of film he makes.
Though to be fair, he has a while to go before he's Scorsese.
Fair enough on him being Scorsese. They are two truly different directors, though. As for directors remaking their own movies, Tarantino briefly considered remaking Reservoir Dogs as his final movie, with an all black cast, he said recently. Thankfully, he realized he’s more original than that. Spike Lee can’t throw a fit, hopefully.
Hear, hear!
But in the end, like actors, I don’t think any one director can be compared to another. Like actors, each director brings his/hers own sensibilities, so while maybe covering similar stories or themes, they’ll put a spin on it that is uniquely theirs.
Thats why there will never be another Connery, or Moore, or Dalton and Brosnan or Craig….
Yes, someone off these forums told me about that IMDB entry too. I know a remake of Memento’s been proposed in the past, but it’s quite surprising to see Nolan attached. And yes, it’s been done in the past (Michael Haneke remade Funny Games in America, Hitchcock I believe remade The Man Who Knew Too Much, and John Ford remade one of his films I think).
Still a bit of an odd choice though. Not that IMDB is always 100% accurate and it says ‘in development’ without anything official so I’m not convinced at the moment. I doubt he’s going to be doing Bond or anything either though.
As for directors, I’d take Fincher and Scorsese over Nolan (I simply prefer their films, but Fincher’s a very technically accomplished and driven director who has so much experience/knowledge, and Scorsese seems to live and breathe films. More importantly as individuals both I think understand movies on an emotional/storytelling level that Nolan just doesn’t quite have yet, and both are certainly older and have more experience which makes a difference).
I don't think we could say he's in anyway predictable.
Of all his films it would be seemingly the most interesting one to give a new take on.
I hadn’t heard this was being done, but it certainly be interesting to see the script updated and then a new pair of hands spinning it, under the guidance of the original creator?
Yes, to the best of my abilities. In my previous post, I was reacting to comments about style, and on that subject, I think there is a specific style that Scorsese pictures have, even across different types of stories. Most noticeable to me is that they flow in a certain way, they are shot in a certain way, and they tend to use music in a certain way. I would need to reflect more on these subjects to write about them in greater detail, but in a very general sense, I think there is a "snappiness" and a "staccato" rhythm to these pictures, with very precise use of camera movement, and with music often being used as ironic commentary. These are general trends (there are exceptions), and of course, their presence also has to do with long-running collaborations with people like Thelma Schoonmaker and Robbie Robertson. But it's a style, for sure. Not always as flashy and noticeable as that of Christopher Nolan, but I feel it's there. In fact, while watching Killers of the Flower Moon at the theater, I remember consciously thinking about this stylistic consistency.
Also, on the subject of themes, Killers of the Flower Moon has some typical Scorsese themes, such as moral decadence, guilt and atonement. Not everything might be the same as in other pictures (if that were the case, why even bother making this one), but there is a throughline there.
Interesting... I'm not sure I fully comprehend everything you're saying, and with the fuzzy grasp I do have, there's one side of me agreeing, but from my gut, and not brain, so hard to explain, and, there's a part of my gut that doesnt agree...
I do think Schoonmaker does have an imprint on his films, by the nature of their combined contributions of having final cut of the story, and the final cut of the film, so I can absolutely connect to what you're saying here.
But, funnyily, I was also looking for Scorsese'isms while watching Killers, and apart from him planting the color red and sprinkling it in key area, I was really having a tough time pointing out his traits in this film...
If I had seen this film without knowing who the director was, would I confidently say that Killers must have been directed by Martin Scorsese? I'm not sure I would have.
However, if I saw Oppenheimer without knowing who directed it, I'm pretty sure I would have identified it as a Nolan film (as much by his weaknesses as his strengths)...
Thanks for the reply @mattjoes
John Ford fan here ... he remade at least two of his films: his now lost Marked Men, from the silent era, became Three Godfathers, in 1948. Also, Judge Priest, in 1934, became The Sun Shines Bright, in 1953.
PS. Probably noted elsewhere, but in watching Killers of the Flower Moon I was struck by how much it reminded me of Scorsese gangster films: ie., with a violent criminal conspiracy at the heart of its plot.