NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Fair enough, well it seems like you had your answer all along!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Honestly, I’ve only ever seen Babs used as a relatively affectionate moniker. However, she gets way too much grief from men with small tackle. And before anyone with small tackle dives in for a rebuttal, I know she can be criticised.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    :))
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 7,507
    slide_99 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.


    That is a common misinterpretation. The film never implies that the purpose of all Blofeld's crimes is centered around getting back at Bond.

    It definitely implies that Blofeld's ruined childhood was the impetus for his behavior. There's no other point to the adoptive brother backstory. If the filmmakers wanted the Nine Eyes stuff to be the primary scheme, they shouldn't have devoted so much screen time to the family angle.

    That is something else. You were implying Blofeld founded Spectre and did all his crimes so he could "eventually lure Bond to his crater base (...)". This is frankly a ridiculous interpretation. The only thing the film implies is that Blofeld's hatred towards Bond made him kill his father and use all available opprtunities to hurt Bond. It never states his greed or ambitions of world domination has anything to do with Bond.

    But then again you are making severe judgements of NTTD despite not having seen the film, so why should I take you seriously...?
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 422
    @Seve If you come out of every Bond film thinking something is nonsense, that’s fair, but that’s a reflection of you, not necessarily the film. Not everyone will come to that conclusion. The symbolism thing, I just meant, the audience isn’t meant to go “oh, that’s Jungian symbolism!”, they’re meant to respond to what that symbolism means to communicate (“oh, the duality and use of mirrors is interesting” or whatever it may be). Maybe I’m not articulating well regarding that.
    Also, I understand your hyperbolization, I just think the point you’re trying to make with it is wrong.

    Fair enough

    On reflection, let me try putting it another way, what I am trying to say is that I don't buy the suggested degree of connection to Jung.

    I'm agree Directors use all sorts of different visual symbolism to tell the story, but generally without consciously connecting it with the writings of Jung or anyone else.

    In this case, I can believe some of the examples sited will have been deliberate, others merely co-incidental, because I just don't think anyone in the Bond organisation is that deeply into philosophy.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    RC7 wrote: »
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Honestly, I’ve only ever seen Babs used as a relatively affectionate moniker. However, she gets way too much grief from men with small tackle. And before anyone with small tackle dives in for a rebuttal, I know she can be criticised.

    Must grind their gears that deep down they know that Barbara Broccoli is a very respected producer, not only for picking up where her father left off— continuing the success and health of the character and franchise— but she also has the balls to cast someone like Craig, shake-up the tropes to keep things in this universe fresh, making the latest era a continuity and then killing off the hero.

    She’s quite the lady with intelligence and she has to be as gritty as Bond to navigate the franchise the way she’s done over the past 25 plus years.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 422
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality.

    Lol, since when was James Bond "reality"?

    The reality of the plot. Bond died.

    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    So what, it's a Bond film, where villains are able to build lairs inside volcanos without anyone noticing and our hero can improvise a parasail and surf tsunami waves or fly helicopters in ways that defy the laws of physics

    So of course he can survive a hailstorm of missiles to the face, that he doesn't is solely because that is not the intention of the producers (at the moment), nothing to do with what does or does not constitute "reality"

    The story concludes with Bond dying. That is the reality of this film.

    And yet...

    "Despite the movie's dramatic climax and seemingly definitive sense of finality, No Time To Die still declares that "James Bond will return". Although the signature title card, which bookends the film's end credits, is a regular feature in the Bond series, its presence here is somewhat surprising, given No Time To Die's conclusion."
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality.

    Lol, since when was James Bond "reality"?

    The reality of the plot. Bond died.

    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    So what, it's a Bond film, where villains are able to build lairs inside volcanos without anyone noticing and our hero can improvise a parasail and surf tsunami waves or fly helicopters in ways that defy the laws of physics

    So of course he can survive a hailstorm of missiles to the face, that he doesn't is solely because that is not the intention of the producers (at the moment), nothing to do with what does or does not constitute "reality"

    The story concludes with Bond dying. That is the reality of this film.

    And yet...

    "Despite the movie's dramatic climax and seemingly definitive sense of finality, No Time To Die still declares that "James Bond will return". Although the signature title card, which bookends the film's end credits, is a regular feature in the Bond series, its presence here is somewhat surprising, given No Time To Die's conclusion."

    What’s that from?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,343
    slide_99 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.


    That is a common misinterpretation. The film never implies that the purpose of all Blofeld's crimes is centered around getting back at Bond.

    It definitely implies that Blofeld's ruined childhood was the impetus for his behavior. There's no other point to the adoptive brother backstory. If the filmmakers wanted the Nine Eyes stuff to be the primary scheme, they shouldn't have devoted so much screen time to the family angle.

    You’re distorting reality. Blofeld even hires Silva to destabilize MI6 in the previous film, in order to pave the way to the 9 Eyes Program in the sequel. And besides, how much screen time the family angle gets? A couple of sentences within the second longest film in the franchise history. Really, just move on.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,551
    matt_u wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.


    That is a common misinterpretation. The film never implies that the purpose of all Blofeld's crimes is centered around getting back at Bond.

    It definitely implies that Blofeld's ruined childhood was the impetus for his behavior. There's no other point to the adoptive brother backstory. If the filmmakers wanted the Nine Eyes stuff to be the primary scheme, they shouldn't have devoted so much screen time to the family angle.

    You’re distorting reality. Blofeld even hires Silva to destabilize MI6 in the previous film, in order to pave the way to the 9 Eyes Program in the sequel. And besides, how much screen time the family angle gets? A couple of sentences within the second longest film in the franchise history. Really, just move on.

    Is there evidence that Blofeld hires Silva for this purpose? Because there is a great deal of evidence in Skyfall to suggest Blofeld has nothing to do with Silvia’s motivation.

    I know Blofeld says he’s behind Silva, but I don’t think he says he hires Silva to destabilize MI6 leading up to Nine Eyes. I don’t even really think you can infer that is what Blofeld wanted from Silva at all; it’s just poor retconning/shoehorning, and I say that as a big fan of Spectre.

    Otherwise I totally agree with you.
  • RC7RC7
    edited October 2021 Posts: 10,512
    peter wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Honestly, I’ve only ever seen Babs used as a relatively affectionate moniker. However, she gets way too much grief from men with small tackle. And before anyone with small tackle dives in for a rebuttal, I know she can be criticised.

    Must grind their gears that deep down they know that Barbara Broccoli is a very respected producer, not only for picking up where her father left off— continuing the success and health of the character and franchise— but she also has the balls to cast someone like Craig, shake-up the tropes to keep things in this universe fresh, making the latest era a continuity and then killing off the hero.

    She’s quite the lady with intelligence and she has to be as gritty as Bond to navigate the franchise the way she’s done over the past 25 plus years.

    Quite. A gracious, brilliant woman, who should be lauded.
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality.

    Lol, since when was James Bond "reality"?

    The reality of the plot. Bond died.

    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    So what, it's a Bond film, where villains are able to build lairs inside volcanos without anyone noticing and our hero can improvise a parasail and surf tsunami waves or fly helicopters in ways that defy the laws of physics

    So of course he can survive a hailstorm of missiles to the face, that he doesn't is solely because that is not the intention of the producers (at the moment), nothing to do with what does or does not constitute "reality"

    The story concludes with Bond dying. That is the reality of this film.

    And yet...

    "Despite the movie's dramatic climax and seemingly definitive sense of finality, No Time To Die still declares that "James Bond will return". Although the signature title card, which bookends the film's end credits, is a regular feature in the Bond series, its presence here is somewhat surprising, given No Time To Die's conclusion."

    Daniel Craig’s Bond died. The character of James Bond didn’t.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    RC7 wrote: »
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Honestly, I’ve only ever seen Babs used as a relatively affectionate moniker. However, she gets way too much grief from men with small tackle. And before anyone with small tackle dives in for a rebuttal, I know she can be criticised.

    LOL about the small tackle. BB does get slammed more than MGW, even though they are equal partners.

    And yes, it's sexist to single her out.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 422
    Seve wrote: »

    "Despite the movie's dramatic climax and seemingly definitive sense of finality, No Time To Die still declares that "James Bond will return". Although the signature title card, which bookends the film's end credits, is a regular feature in the Bond series, its presence here is somewhat surprising, given No Time To Die's conclusion."

    What’s that from?

    https://screenrant.com/no-time-die-james-bond-return-credits-reason/
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    echo wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    As an aside, why do so many call her Babs? Is that what her family call her? Is it done as a means of friendly respect or to denigrate her? It always rubs me the wrong way. And do people complain about Michael as much? Why no.

    It’s short for Barbara. Very casual way to refer to her; hopefully no one in the forums would call her that to her face unless they were close friends! :))

    I know it is shorthand for Barbara. But I read it as disparaging a great majority of the time. NOT always, but majority, is my impression. People complain and call her Babs. People complain and call her Barbara simply does not land the same way with me.

    I don't like it, the whining and anger and then "Babs" this "Babs" that. Just wanted to state that clearly for once as it has always, for years, bugged me that tone that too often goes along with people have negative comments directed towards Barbara use the friendly chummy shorthand "Babs" and I read it as disrespectful too often. And it would be like calling Michael "Mikey". Shorthand but sarcastic or disrespectful.

    There, I've had my say on it. But that was overdue. Carry on.

    Honestly, I’ve only ever seen Babs used as a relatively affectionate moniker. However, she gets way too much grief from men with small tackle. And before anyone with small tackle dives in for a rebuttal, I know she can be criticised.

    LOL about the small tackle. BB does get slammed more than MGW, even though they are equal partners.

    And yes, it's sexist to single her out.

    Funny thing is that he came up with Brofeld, but NOBODY brings that up.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,152
    He's goading Bond. Just like he does again in NTTD. Mr White and Silva were behind the previous three films, and they worked for Blofeld. That's it.
    This. I'd've preferred Quantum and Spectre to be separate and Silva to be a freelancer but, yes, this is the way they took it.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,165
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.

    Except that’s not his master plan at all. It’s as Blofeld said, “You interfered in my world, so I destroyed yours.” If Bond hadn’t been a super spy thwarting SPECTRE schemes, Blofeld wouldn’t pay him any mind. You should pay closer attention when watching movies and clean up your vocabulary too.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Minion wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.

    Except that’s not his master plan at all. It’s as Blofeld said, “You interfered in my world, so I destroyed yours.” If Bond hadn’t been a super spy thwarting SPECTRE schemes, Blofeld wouldn’t pay him any mind. You should pay closer attention when watching movies and clean up your vocabulary too.

    👍
  • Posts: 7,507
    Minion wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.

    Except that’s not his master plan at all. It’s as Blofeld said, “You interfered in my world, so I destroyed yours.” If Bond hadn’t been a super spy thwarting SPECTRE schemes, Blofeld wouldn’t pay him any mind. You should pay closer attention when watching movies and clean up your vocabulary too.


    Frustratingly I have read and heard many theories like this:

    - "This belittles the character of Blofeld because all his evil motivations stem from his personal gripe with Bond".

    The film actually never implies this however. It is a common and undeserved misconception.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    matt_u wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.


    That is a common misinterpretation. The film never implies that the purpose of all Blofeld's crimes is centered around getting back at Bond.

    It definitely implies that Blofeld's ruined childhood was the impetus for his behavior. There's no other point to the adoptive brother backstory. If the filmmakers wanted the Nine Eyes stuff to be the primary scheme, they shouldn't have devoted so much screen time to the family angle.

    You’re distorting reality. Blofeld even hires Silva to destabilize MI6 in the previous film, in order to pave the way to the 9 Eyes Program in the sequel. And besides, how much screen time the family angle gets? A couple of sentences within the second longest film in the franchise history. Really, just move on.

    Is there evidence that Blofeld hires Silva for this purpose? Because there is a great deal of evidence in Skyfall to suggest Blofeld has nothing to do with Silvia’s motivation.

    I know Blofeld says he’s behind Silva, but I don’t think he says he hires Silva to destabilize MI6 leading up to Nine Eyes. I don’t even really think you can infer that is what Blofeld wanted from Silva at all; it’s just poor retconning/shoehorning, and I say that as a big fan of Spectre.

    Otherwise I totally agree with you.

    To me it all makes perfect sense. SP established that Silva worked for SPECTRE in SF. Silva in SF says that he works “for the highest bidder” aka Blofeld. Silva puts the MI6 under attack proving they’re obsolete, paving the way to C’s program and Blofeld will to control everything. That’s clearly part of a bigger scheme. Blofeld is just so diabolical that chooses for the job someone with a past with the “beloved M”.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    matt_u wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Benjamin wrote: »
    I've only seen Spectre once, but I really liked it.

    I'm really puzzled why so many Bond fans rate this one so poorly. By any chance would anyone be willing to offer a brief explanation for the dislike directed toward Spectre? Is it the length? The Blofeld plot? Something else?

    Blofeld's grand scheme was to found a secret terrorist organization, somehow bring about the events of CR-SF (still don't buy it) to eventually lure Bond to his crater base so he can drill holes into his head, all to get back at Bond because daddy didn't love him enough. That's literally more retarded than the plot to Die Another Day.


    That is a common misinterpretation. The film never implies that the purpose of all Blofeld's crimes is centered around getting back at Bond.

    It definitely implies that Blofeld's ruined childhood was the impetus for his behavior. There's no other point to the adoptive brother backstory. If the filmmakers wanted the Nine Eyes stuff to be the primary scheme, they shouldn't have devoted so much screen time to the family angle.

    You’re distorting reality. Blofeld even hires Silva to destabilize MI6 in the previous film, in order to pave the way to the 9 Eyes Program in the sequel. And besides, how much screen time the family angle gets? A couple of sentences within the second longest film in the franchise history. Really, just move on.

    Is there evidence that Blofeld hires Silva for this purpose? Because there is a great deal of evidence in Skyfall to suggest Blofeld has nothing to do with Silvia’s motivation.

    I know Blofeld says he’s behind Silva, but I don’t think he says he hires Silva to destabilize MI6 leading up to Nine Eyes. I don’t even really think you can infer that is what Blofeld wanted from Silva at all; it’s just poor retconning/shoehorning, and I say that as a big fan of Spectre.

    Otherwise I totally agree with you.

    To me it all makes perfect sense. SP established that Silva worked for SPECTRE in SF. Silva in SF says that he works “for the highest bidder” aka Blofeld. Silva puts the MI6 under attack proving they’re obsolete, paving the way to C’s program and Blofeld will to control everything. That’s clearly part of a bigger scheme. Blofeld is just so diabolical that chooses for the job someone with a past with the “beloved M”.

    I mean, maybe, it just feels like you’re throwinga ton of Skyfall in the garbage to make this theory work.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,188
    My reading is that Silva essentially a free agent. Blofeld recognizes that Silva had a grudge against M and took advantage of that by giving him all the financial means and manpower to pull off his scheme, as it would help destabilize MI6.

    I would have preferred Silva remain entirely independent, but the filmmakers wanted to make Blofeld culpable for M’s death to give Bond a more personal motive for killing Blofeld.

    This is why the ending in the bridge works for me because Bond has every personal reason to want to kill Blofeld for but decides not to and instead hands a valuable asset to his government. His last moment of decision for Queen and Country before going off with Madeleine.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Ah, yeah, I don’t mind that. Coming around to your perspective @MakeshiftPython and @matt_u.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 422
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality...

    ...Daniel Craig’s Bond died. The character of James Bond didn’t
    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    Interesting

    So you find it quite unreasonable for someone to see the character of James Bond killed on screen, and then moments later see a post script which states that "James Bond will return" and not wonder if that means he did not die after all?

    You choose to make the distinction between "James Bond as played by Daniel Craig" and "James Bond the immortal character" and will be unfazed when a complete stranger turns up in Bond 26 as if nothing had happened

    Yet somehow you are surprised that others might think Craig-Bond is not dead and could yet appear in Bond 26

    I agree with you that the intention of everyone involved in making NTTD is that Craig-Bond will not return

    But I'm not at all surprised that others think he might, particularly casual viewers who do not hang on EON's every announcement.

    And in the World of James Bond, Never Say Never Again!

    1657962993-DrSpockFascinating.jpg
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality...

    ...Daniel Craig’s Bond died. The character of James Bond didn’t
    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    Interesting

    So you find it quite unreasonable for someone to see the character of James Bond killed on screen, and then moments later see a post script which states that "James Bond will return" and not wonder if that means he is did not die after all?

    You choose to make the distinction between "James Bond as played by Daniel Craig" and "James Bond the immortal character" and will be unfazed when a complete stranger turns up in Bond 26 as if nothing had happened

    Yet somehow you are surprised that others might think Craig-Bond is not dead and could yet appear in Bond 26

    I agree with you that the intention of everyone involved in making NTTD is that Craig-Bond will not return

    But I'm not at all surprised that others think he might, particularly casual viewers who do not hang on EON's every announcement.

    And in the World of James Bond, Never Say Never Again!

    1657962993-DrSpockFascinating.jpg

    I mean, really, it's hard to argue with your point here. Fundamentally, the film says "James Bond is dead", and then "James Bond Will Return". They're diametrically opposed statements to make. I tend to agree with those that liken it to "The king is dead, long live the king", and that James Bond stories will return, but you're not wrong.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Seve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I love the fact Bond took a hailstorm of missiles to the face, yet there are still fans suggesting he’s alive. I would say I’m surprised but it seems symptomatic of today’s society where a fair portion seem incapable of accepting reality...

    ...Daniel Craig’s Bond died. The character of James Bond didn’t
    Yes. It was confirmed in the film, and confirmed several times after the fact by those creatively in charge of the film.

    Interesting

    So you find it quite unreasonable for someone to see the character of James Bond killed on screen, and then moments later see a post script which states that "James Bond will return" and not wonder if that means he is did not die after all?

    You choose to make the distinction between "James Bond as played by Daniel Craig" and "James Bond the immortal character" and will be unfazed when a complete stranger turns up in Bond 26 as if nothing had happened

    Yet somehow you are surprised that others might think Craig-Bond is not dead and could yet appear in Bond 26

    I agree with you that the intention of everyone involved in making NTTD is that Craig-Bond will not return

    But I'm not at all surprised that others think he might, particularly casual viewers who do not hang on EON's every announcement.

    And in the World of James Bond, Never Say Never Again!

    1657962993-DrSpockFascinating.jpg

    Yes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Yeah I’m not having any trouble differentiating between Craig Bond’s death and the promise of a new James Bond coming soon.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    More people need to speak about how good Lisa-Dorah Sonnet is in NTTD. My whole cinema were awwing over everything she did. The kid sells it. (Also, can someone help me with the pronunciation of Mathilde. Is it Ma-tild or Ma-tilda)
    I don't think anyone has answered this, but as she and her mother are French, it's the former, just two syllables, with no stress on the letter 'e.'

    Nice post, btw ...

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Just returned from my third (and likely final) viewing of the film in theaters.

    What a tremendous film.

    When I think of films that are "masterpieces," it's not always films that are great. That might be counterintuitive, but some examples: Pulp Fiction, Schindler's List, Star Wars, Rocky, Vertigo, and Blue Velvet. These are all really good films, considered "masterpieces," but they are also seriously flawed in terms of film narrative, imho. NTTD is like that, to me. This will go down as a masterpiece as a Bond film, while also not being considered one of the best. It is daring and sweeping, almost epic.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    You know, don't tell anyone, but on my second viewing, I couldn't resist but record the gunbarrel sequence on my phone. I wanted a souvenir from the experience, I guess.

    Also, today I was talking with someone who has yet to see the film, doesn't know too much about it and certainly doesn't know how it ends. I was saying this is Craig's last film, and this person basically said that who knows, after all, Craig might change his mind about that. I said "sure" and had to bite my lip for a moment to avoid laughing. I felt the power of knowledge rushing through my body.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    mattjoes wrote: »
    You know, don't tell anyone, but on my second viewing, I couldn't resist but record the gunbarrel sequence on my phone. I wanted a souvenir from the experience, I guess.

    Also, today I was talking with someone who has yet to see the film, doesn't know too much about it and certainly doesn't know how it ends. I was saying this is Craig's last film, and this person basically said that who knows, after all, Craig might change his mind about that. I said "sure" and had to bite my lip for a moment to avoid laughing. I felt the power of knowledge rushing through my body.

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