NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Oh wow, the show is arguably better than any of the TNG films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Oh wow, the show is arguably better than any of the TNG films.

    At it's best, I would agree. But First Contact & Insurrection rank among the better 2nd tier episodes IMO.
  • The final episode All Good Things - has it been a little less reliable on previous knowledge - is a masterpiece I could have seen on a big screen. But it also his strenght: it a great final episode for its series.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Oh wow, the show is arguably better than any of the TNG films.

    ST has also Q.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    +1 you've summed up exactly how I feel mate, word for word
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    I don't personally agree. The shifts don't really jar for me and having a dour adrenaline kick like the beginning and the end for the whole film would have been too much, I think. I love what a suprise those Jamaica and Cuba scenes where the first time and I still love them.
    But I am very interested how the film will age and the tonal shifts are one of the areas where I am most interested in how I myself, people who will look back on the Craig era and people who maybe are discovering the franchise for the first time will rate the film based on that.
    We've all discussed this a thousand times by now, but I think NTTD will not become one of the most rewatchable Bond films, because of that ending; but the PTS and the Cuba fight f.e. are among the most rewatchable sequences of the last few decades, for me personally. We'll see how that plays out.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Actually, yes, I'd've preferred a more 'even tone' throughout too. Like most people, I loved Paloma but with repeated viewings I could've done without the the extraction of Borat, er, I mean, Obruchev, being carried out with quite so much accompanying levity. Not asking for NTTD to have been unflinchingly elegaic, but more tonal consistency would've worked for me.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    I personally never felt the the tone was inconsistent. I think it makes perfect sense in terms of the rollercoaster that these films can be. I mean if anything I think it strikes something quite interesting in terms of James Bond's arc as a character. The fact that when Bond does decide to come back, his first mission in five years, he's kind of having a great time, alongside a Bond girl, fighting SPECTRE. It's the classic dynamic, but because we're on a rollercoaster, you then have to remind Bond that actually this game isn't all fun, which is our boat sequence with Felix's death. It's like the writers wanted to show Bond what he's been missing, but remind him of what can be lost.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    I actually think given how heavy the ending they were giving us that the shift in tone in some of the lighter scenes was very much appreciated... At least from my point of view.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I actually think given how heavy the ending they were giving us that the shift in tone in some of the lighter scenes was very much appreciated... At least from my point of view.

    Same for me.
  • Posts: 1,394
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    Completely disagree.The Cuba scenes was a chance to have some good old fashioned FUN before the film took a dark turn.The film is depressing enough as it is so thank god there was SOME light hearted fun in the film.

  • The tone isn't consistent through the film, but I didn't necessarily find it to be jarring either. I found it to be the best mix of grit and over-the-top of the Craig era, especially since Mendes started to reintroduce some of the old ridiculousness. The issue is, with Mendes those moments (even ones that are relatively tame, like the Komodo Dragons in SF) felt completely at odds with the movies they belonged to and I think it's largely due to structure of the big set pieces.

    In NTTD the tonal shifts are tied to large set pieces/chunks of the film rather than slipping in "moments".
    - The opening sticks to the thriller/horror aspect, the Matera sequence draws on CR/QoS with the hard hitting action fused with the intense emotionality.
    - Jamaica/Cuba/London we get the classic Bondness with a healthy dose of silly.
    - Norway/Safin's island is where NTTD really becomes it's own thing, yes it has the classic villain's lair and all but the stakes and tone aren't necessarily reflective of something we're used to in the franchise.


  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I actually think given how heavy the ending they were giving us that the shift in tone in some of the lighter scenes was very much appreciated... At least from my point of view.

    Agreed. I think it was important to see Bond have a little fun in his last movie before his ultimate fate played out. This is why I’m pleased of seeing Bond and Felix enjoying themselves at the bar, because it’s not something the whole film series really did and it made Felix’s death more impactful. It’s also important that the very moment Bond is facing death he’s not at all bitter about what’s happening but seems appreciative of what he got out of life before leaving this realm.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,247
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    Oh, very much so....very much so. CR & QoS. I think those two Bond films are the ones that Craig's Bond is instantly recognizable the most. I love lighter moments. It's also in CR & QoS. But I'm like....why the lighter moments in NTTD? If our hero's end is a must. It's like Gladiator(2000). it was already looking like Maximus was going to die, because the film maintained that dark tone. There was no point having Maximus joke much, when he was going to die at the end. My point is, I feel Bond's death would have been easier to accept, if the film maintained the dark and serious tone it opened with. But with all the lighter moments, to an extent his death felt abrupt, even if the build-up to it was slow.
  • echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    I agree with @GadgetMan and when thinking about the tone of scenes like Cuba it's quite jarring when compared to the PTS and Bond's demise. The Cuba scenes had spectre agents all over the place and yet Bond seemed like he was at a theme park. Compare this scene to the Tosca shootout in QoS or any action scene in CR and QoS, the latter films had action scenes that are more tonally aligned with NTTD's PTS and ending. The Cuba scenes although fun comes off as a bit goofy. Paloma was great to look at but she was completely irrelevant to the film.
  • GadgetMan wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    Oh, very much so....very much so. CR & QoS. I think those two Bond films are the ones that Craig's Bond is instantly recognizable the most. I love lighter moments. It's also in CR & QoS. But I'm like....why the lighter moments in NTTD? If our hero's end is a must. It's like Gladiator(2000). it was already looking like Maximus was going to die, because the film maintained that dark tone. There was no point having Maximus joke much, when he was going to die at the end. My point is, I feel Bond's death would have been easier to accept, if the film maintained the dark and serious tone it opened with. But with all the lighter moments, to an extent his death felt abrupt, even if the build-up to it was slow.

    +1
  • Posts: 1,394
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    I agree with @GadgetMan and when thinking about the tone of scenes like Cuba it's quite jarring when compared to the PTS and Bond's demise. The Cuba scenes had spectre agents all over the place and yet Bond seemed like he was at a theme park. Compare this scene to the Tosca shootout in QoS or any action scene in CR and QoS, the latter films had action scenes that are more tonally aligned with NTTD's PTS and ending. The Cuba scenes although fun comes off as a bit goofy. Paloma was great to look at but she was completely irrelevant to the film.

    NTTD had well shot and more importantly well EDITED action scenes,unlike QOS.


  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    I agree with @GadgetMan and when thinking about the tone of scenes like Cuba it's quite jarring when compared to the PTS and Bond's demise. The Cuba scenes had spectre agents all over the place and yet Bond seemed like he was at a theme park. Compare this scene to the Tosca shootout in QoS or any action scene in CR and QoS, the latter films had action scenes that are more tonally aligned with NTTD's PTS and ending. The Cuba scenes although fun comes off as a bit goofy. Paloma was great to look at but she was completely irrelevant to the film.

    NTTD had well shot and more importantly well EDITED action scenes,unlike QOS.


    Oh, Yeah...sure. But I think our responses to the Bond films are more emotional than intellectual...or else, Bond fans won't love DAF, MR, AVTAK, DAD, SP, etc.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for a film that ends with Bond's death, the tone should have been even. After knowing what the end was, I find it a bit hard to appreciate the lighter moments like the Cuba scene and other light scenes, as it's somewhat misleading. Not that I'm a big fan of the ending, but I think the film should have maintained the dangerous and serious feel of Matera, although the gunfight in Safin's lair brought back that feel. I just wanted the rest of the film to have the same serious tone since the ending is tragic.

    So you want...QoS.

    I agree with @GadgetMan and when thinking about the tone of scenes like Cuba it's quite jarring when compared to the PTS and Bond's demise. The Cuba scenes had spectre agents all over the place and yet Bond seemed like he was at a theme park. Compare this scene to the Tosca shootout in QoS or any action scene in CR and QoS, the latter films had action scenes that are more tonally aligned with NTTD's PTS and ending. The Cuba scenes although fun comes off as a bit goofy. Paloma was great to look at but she was completely irrelevant to the film.

    NTTD had well shot and more importantly well EDITED action scenes,unlike QOS.


    Oh, Yeah...sure. But I think our responses to the Bond films are more emotional than intellectual...or else, Bond fans won't love DAF, MR, AVTAK, DAD, SP, etc.
    DAF is like DAD- watchable fun nonsense.
    AVTAK is like SP- probably watch them one more time before I die.
    MR is like SF & NTTD- been there; done with that. I'd sooner watch NSNA.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    I don't love any of these, except AVTAK, and that starts to worry me.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I enjoyed watching this interview. Interesting information.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I enjoyed watching this interview. Interesting information.


    Me too. David is a very amiable interviewer and she comes across as very personable.
  • Posts: 1,985
    As one who saw his first Bond--Dr. No--in 1963, I have a lifetime of mixed emotions. I always anticipate a new Bond film. Too often I have been neither shaken nor stirred. In the entire series, these are my favorites: DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMMS, LALD, TLD. LTK, and CR. Unlike OHMSS and CR, Bond's romance in NTTD never seems fully realized. Tracey and Vesper were interesting, engaging, and fun. Madeleine is sensual without being especially interesting. There's simply no heat. Waltz continues the agony of an uninteresting Blofeld, with Malek proving to be equally dull. Bond didn't need to die by missiles. He could have just dropped dead from boredom. If killing off Leiter and Bond was intended as heart wrenching, they weren't. Both deaths felt unnecessary. Like it or not, the series does owe something to the Bond creator. The writers do toss readers a crumb with the YOLT garden of death ending. But apparently favor incineration rather than survival as seen in TMWTGG. Having seen NTTD twice, my feelings remain mixed. I think the writers boxed themselves in early with the Quantum/Spectre storyline made all the more ludicrous with the Blofeld/Bond connection. For me the first four SC films define the Bond character. As much as I like DC, being old, played out, and filled with too much angst and political correctness wore thin.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 2,161
    Nice perspective @CrabKey . I didn't see DN until '65/'66, and I was very young.
  • Posts: 52
    CrabKey wrote: »
    As one who saw his first Bond--Dr. No--in 1963, I have a lifetime of mixed emotions. I always anticipate a new Bond film. Too often I have been neither shaken nor stirred. In the entire series, these are my favorites: DN, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMMS, LALD, TLD. LTK, and CR. Unlike OHMSS and CR, Bond's romance in NTTD never seems fully realized. Tracey and Vesper were interesting, engaging, and fun. Madeleine is sensual without being especially interesting. There's simply no heat. Waltz continues the agony of an uninteresting Blofeld, with Malek proving to be equally dull. Bond didn't need to die by missiles. He could have just dropped dead from boredom. If killing off Leiter and Bond was intended as heart wrenching, they weren't. Both deaths felt unnecessary. Like it or not, the series does owe something to the Bond creator. The writers do toss readers a crumb with the YOLT garden of death ending. But apparently favor incineration rather than survival as seen in TMWTGG. Having seen NTTD twice, my feelings remain mixed. I think the writers boxed themselves in early with the Quantum/Spectre storyline made all the more ludicrous with the Blofeld/Bond connection. For me the first four SC films define the Bond character. As much as I like DC, being old, played out, and filled with too much angst and political correctness wore thin.

    Very well put indeed. Agree with this wholeheartedly.
  • Posts: 1,078
    CrabKey wrote: »
    If killing off Leiter and Bond was intended as heart wrenching, they weren't. Both deaths felt unnecessary. Like it or not, the series does owe something to the Bond creator. The writers do toss readers a crumb with the YOLT garden of death ending. But apparently favor incineration rather than survival

    I agree with all you said, and particularly the above.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    I thought Leiter made an excellent sacrificial lamb. Right up there with Kerim Bey, Vijay, etc.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    Absolutely @MakeshiftPython.

    Yeah to me the deaths were meaningful and the story very smartly introduced links to World War II, further tying to it to Fleming and the origins of the Bond character. With timeless story elements engaged. So beyond the breadcrumbs which were also enjoyed.

    Credit to the current producers for such a great tribute to the originators Broccoli and Saltzman and their franchise. With probably the ultimate tribute to them: its success.


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