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Comments
Very impressive. And instantly better! It’s easy to forget the energy that Skyfall had after the last two emo efforts.
It also shows the slight lack of imagination in writing it: just the same chords and feel of the last two, but Adele did it better.
Yes I think you're probably correct. All 3 songs have a lot in common but SF is the better song overall.
I think what will redeem NTTD though is that Zimmer is going to work it extensively into the score. It's going to be part if the DNA of the film.
I still feel slightly robbed that Newman was so far up his own backside that he refused to work more closely with Adele and Smith and work their songs properly into his score. Both SF and SP would have benefited massively if he hadn't been so proud.
That does feel possible. I can certainly see the rising four note orchestral melody being featured. It does have a mood to it.
I don’t think this kind of imagined narrative is reasonable or helpful.
Now here we are and Zimmer is jumping at the chance to work with Billie Eillish and fortunately she is a big enough girl to take it in her stride and embrace the opportunity.
Maybe Newman did reach out to Adele and Smith and they said they didn't want anything to do with him, but I don't think that's what happened. In fact we know for a fact that the brief references he makes to the title songs in both scores were orchestrated by someone else in his team, which pretty much tells us all we need to know.
We don’t know the situation, no. He even reached out to David Arnold as we understand, so we’d need to hear it from those involved before badmouthing anyone.
Correct. Otherwise we might as well badmouth Michael Kamen, Eric Serra, and David Arnold for the instances where they didn't collaborate with the artists.
That's only your surmise. Curiously, the only people that make these assumptions are those who aren't fans of Newman's Bond scores. It's like it's not enough to not like them, they need to believe Newman didn't even like scoring Bond, that he didn't want to work with the artists, in order to support that dislike.
That's the kind of fan supposition I find annoying.
There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.
To be honest, I can't see it any other way....what surprised me most is prior to Bond, the closest Newman have done in terms of action movies were 'Road To Perdition' & 'The Adjustment Bureau'.... meaning he should have helped himself more by using more of the title songs or the Bond theme, considering he isn't an Action Composer by default. So let's be honest do you enjoy 'Granborough Road, 'Snow Plane', 'Tempus Fugit?', etc. It's no secret Newman did well with the Romantic Pieces & the Soulful parts, those are his strength as a Composer. He should have the used the title songs more to help his action music. That's why most his Bond action tracks sounds like sound effects, instead of sounding like scores. I like Newman, but I have to be honest....in most parts, he got it wrong with Bond. We just have to accept that fact. If Newman was determined to work with the Artist, nobody would have said No.
Which doesn’t make it true, just that you can’t see it any other way.
An opinion, not a fact.
:D you're beginning to sound like a Lawyer now....well, that's it though. I just feel there was potential from Newman, being an A-list Composer....but the scores didn't end up to be A-list, coz he seemed to be his own enemy.
“I think that he got it wrong with Bond” would be a perfectly reasonable statement.
+1
Arnold didn't work with White and Keys yet managed to use their song in the score in several instances.
Zero? @Getafix provided many. I'm not saying those are earthshattering or definitive, but they're not zero either.
In the same way that Newman managed to use Arnold’s work in his score. So he’s an awful man who refuses to use others’ work, except when he does. And Arnold is great and loved to use others’ work, unless it’s Madonna. Or Sheryl Crow. Was Arnold self-important and arrogant because he refused to integrate those tunes into his scores? Or was there actually a bit more to it than that?
See? These are just invented and simplified narratives which aren’t real. We don’t know the full ins and outs of all this so we shouldn’t be denigrating someone’s character because of it.
There is nothing to say what his attitude or state of mind was, no. You’ve just seen the outcome and decided on what you think that must’ve been. ‘Grudgingly’ is just invention.
This link reveals a lot I think.
https://adele.fandom.com/wiki/Komodo_Dragon_(song)
It was Michael G Wilson who asked Newman to include it, otherwise it wouldn't have been referenced at all. Adele's song is musically what everyone remembers from the film and yet Newman was so in love with his own artistic genius that it didn't occur to him to work her song into the score. Even though having the title song woven into the score is a trademark of the great Bond scores. I don't believe Newman was not aware of this. It was just pure pride on his part.
Thank God we have Zimmer this time. Just think what Zimmer or even Arnold would have done with Adele's song as raw material. Total waste.
Presumably David Arnold was displaying the same contempt towards others’ work when he refused to integrate not one but two of their works into his scores at all (presumably ignoring the producers’ similar requests that he should), and then grudgingly put nothing more than a few brief hints towards AWTD into his QoS score? And then, to add insult into injury, he later released a barely disguised attempt at his own version of a song for that movie, in a proper display of unprofessional oneupsmanship. That all happened so it must be true. Fact.
@MakeshiftPython, and where do I do that?
I think that every time I watch Skyfall. Good points mate
We have plenty of evidence to say that Arnold would’ve done sod all with the Skyfall song. Newman’s orchestrator worked on the actual song, which is more involved than Arnold ever bothered to get to with the artists making the themes he didn’t write.
Do you think it’s right and fair to be reaching these conclusions about him? All the evidence points to it, after all.
And I just called everyone surely.
Arnold is a proven collaborator. He's worked with dozens of artists in the music industry as co writer and producer. Wherever he had the opportunity he worked with the title song artists (and others) to incorporate their work into his scores. He was doing it right from the start in TND with kd lang and the Propellorheads.
You can engage in this pointless sophistry as long as you like but some things are still facts, even in this crazy truth denying era we live in.
So you’re denying the truth that he twice didn’t use others’ work in his Bond scores and just gave a few insulting hints towards another in his final score, not even giving it a full quote as Newman did in his scores, and didn’t work with any of the artists directly? And also denying the fact that Newman worked with Radman and Arnold himself, whilst simultaneously saying he doesn’t collaborate with people. Interesting. Because obviously being a movie composer has nothing to do with working alongside other creatives, does it? ;)
It’s almost as if both of these are actually interpretations of events with significant bias added on, and not the actual truth...
Or are you going to continue claiming that the narrative you’ve constructed from events is the only possible way to read them? It would be ironic to accuse Newman of arrogance whilst maintaining that your assertions and guesswork must be the truth.
Or it’s clear that those are great tracks that work really well. Fact?
Yeah, Fact....but Newman needed the title songs to improve his action tracks with hints of the Bond theme.