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NO TIME TO DIE (2020) by Billie Eilish - Theme Song Discussion

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  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Matt007 wrote: »
    @boldfinger. You’re worrying about things that haven’t happened that are completely beyond your control. Not a recipe for happiness.
    @Matt007, I´m not worrying, I´m uttering my lack of contentedness with certain elements of the film that did happen. Those are two entirely different things. And by openly standing by my emotions I shall achieve catharsis and live on a merry man :-).
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    Having said that, much of Barry's work involved reworking or reusing the same tracks again and again throughout his films, which I don't think is a bad thing, as long as the tracks are memorable in the first place. If anything, it helps lodge the tunes in the consciousness so they become familiar to the audience by the end of the movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,336
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    I'm not sure even that is that fair, as as far as we know he may well have been working to temp tracks which Mendes had laid down and given no choice but to reuse the melodies because he was told to do so. Certainly Mendes has recently said on his Classic FM interview to promote 1917 that he considers Spectre to have the superior score (even if he prefers Skyfall as a film): could that be because he controlled it? We don't know.

    Certainly I don't think writing any film score can be a lazy act.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think it's imagined. Newman had the time and opportunity to incorporate Adele and Smith's songs. He chose not to.

    Now here we are and Zimmer is jumping at the chance to work with Billie Eillish and fortunately she is a big enough girl to take it in her stride and embrace the opportunity.

    Maybe Newman did reach out to Adele and Smith and they said they didn't want anything to do with him, but I don't think that's what happened. In fact we know for a fact that the brief references he makes to the title songs in both scores were orchestrated by someone else in his team, which pretty much tells us all we need to know.

    +1

    Arnold didn't work with White and Keys yet managed to use their song in the score in several instances.

    In the same way that Newman managed to use Arnold’s work in his score. So he’s an awful man who refuses to use others’ work, except when he does. And Arnold is great and loved to use others’ work, unless it’s Madonna. Or Sheryl Crow. Was Arnold self-important and arrogant because he refused to integrate those tunes into his scores? Or was there actually a bit more to it than that?

    See? These are just invented and simplified narratives which aren’t real. We don’t know the full ins and outs of all this so we shouldn’t be denigrating someone’s character because of it.
    Walecs wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’.

    Zero? @Getafix provided many. I'm not saying those are earthshattering or definitive, but they're not zero either.

    There is nothing to say what his attitude or state of mind was, no. You’ve just seen the outcome and decided on what you think that must’ve been. ‘Grudgingly’ is just invention.

    I won't even bother answering someone who straight out lies and ignores facts to push their own agenda. At least Getafix has always been sincere in their posts.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,336
    Walecs wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think it's imagined. Newman had the time and opportunity to incorporate Adele and Smith's songs. He chose not to.

    Now here we are and Zimmer is jumping at the chance to work with Billie Eillish and fortunately she is a big enough girl to take it in her stride and embrace the opportunity.

    Maybe Newman did reach out to Adele and Smith and they said they didn't want anything to do with him, but I don't think that's what happened. In fact we know for a fact that the brief references he makes to the title songs in both scores were orchestrated by someone else in his team, which pretty much tells us all we need to know.

    +1

    Arnold didn't work with White and Keys yet managed to use their song in the score in several instances.

    In the same way that Newman managed to use Arnold’s work in his score. So he’s an awful man who refuses to use others’ work, except when he does. And Arnold is great and loved to use others’ work, unless it’s Madonna. Or Sheryl Crow. Was Arnold self-important and arrogant because he refused to integrate those tunes into his scores? Or was there actually a bit more to it than that?

    See? These are just invented and simplified narratives which aren’t real. We don’t know the full ins and outs of all this so we shouldn’t be denigrating someone’s character because of it.
    Walecs wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’.

    Zero? @Getafix provided many. I'm not saying those are earthshattering or definitive, but they're not zero either.

    There is nothing to say what his attitude or state of mind was, no. You’ve just seen the outcome and decided on what you think that must’ve been. ‘Grudgingly’ is just invention.

    I won't even bother answering someone who straight out lies and ignores facts to push their own agenda. At least Getafix has always been sincere in their posts.

    Well you did just answer ;)
    Which facts am I ignoring? What am I lying about? You could at least be decent enough to explain what you're referring to here. Your post, in mentioning that he worked tiny bits of AWTD into QoS, totally ignores the fact that Arnold failed to work two other songs into his other scores at all. So please don't accuse me of me ignoring facts.
    And yes, I am entirely sincere in my belief that accusing someone of doing their work 'grudgingly' or what they 'chose' what to do or not to do without knowing all of the facts isn't really on. It's telling that when I say that I don't think it's okay to insult someone without knowing the facts you have to then insult me in response.

    What are you actually having a go at me about? That I don't think it's okay to insult someone? You're taking a stand on your right to horrible to someone based on hearsay and guesswork? Is this what the world is now? I guess the whole "be kind" movement in the last week hasn't got to everyone.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited February 2020 Posts: 3,157
    You know full well that the theme song for TND was switched at the very last minute giving Arnold no chance to work it into the score. You know full well that Skyfall was weaved into the score at EON's request and Newman didn't do it.

    Your post is full of BS and you know it. Not to mention all the strawman arguments in your reasoning. You should be ashamed.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,336
    Walecs wrote: »
    You know full well that the theme song for TND was switched at the very last minute giving Arnold no chance to work it into the score.

    There's as much reason to believe that as there is that Newman is 'obsessed with his own genius'. What timings are we talking about exactly? How much of the scores were written and recorded at those points? Do you know?
    And why have you ignored Die Another Day? Why did Arnold put only the tiniest snippets of AWTD into the score to QoS (so small that a lot Bond fans don't even know they're there)? Because he's in love with his own artistic genius? Certainly Newman was happy to have two fully formed and very lush versions of both of the songs he worked with in his scores.
    Walecs wrote: »
    You know full well that Skyfall was weaved into the score at EON's request and Newman didn't do it.

    I know full well that Newman has said, just like Arnold, that he was too far too busy to weave the theme into the score at that point- which very much sounds like he also had no time to do it. And yet unlike Arnold, he managed to find a place for it. You do too but you've decided to ignore that for some reason.
    Walecs wrote: »
    Your post is full of BS and you know it.

    I'm not claiming to know the motives behind others actions, as you do here with Newman, Arnold, and myself. I'm also not going to insult anyone.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Good debate guys, don't let it get overheated.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Your post is full of BS and you know it.

    I'm not claiming to know the motives behind others actions, as you do here with Newman, Arnold, and myself. I'm also not going to insult anyone.

    When did I, mr Strawman? Just point out my exact words where I did. Again, you're just making things up to prove your point.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,336
    Walecs wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Your post is full of BS and you know it.

    I'm not claiming to know the motives behind others actions, as you do here with Newman, Arnold, and myself. I'm also not going to insult anyone.

    When did I, mr Strawman? Just point out my exact words where I did. Again, you're just making things up to prove your point.

    "Your post is full of BS and you know it" for one. The bit I actually quoted just before I said that.
    And your whole argument is based upon ascribing motives towards Newman's actions, is it not? What is your point otherwise?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    Your post is full of BS and you know it.

    I'm not claiming to know the motives behind others actions, as you do here with Newman, Arnold, and myself. I'm also not going to insult anyone.

    When did I, mr Strawman? Just point out my exact words where I did. Again, you're just making things up to prove your point.

    "Your post is full of BS and you know it" for one. The bit I actually quoted just before I said that.
    And your whole argument is based upon ascribing motives towards Newman's actions, is it not? What is your point otherwise?

    1. When did I claim I knew the motives behind other actions?
    2. If you state something that is not true (which I proved), you're lying. It's not an insult, it's truth.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    We don't want any insults or inflammatory comments that will cause these kind of arguments.
    Also, the discussion is getting way off topic, so let's end it here.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2020 Posts: 16,336


    EDIT: Apologies NicNac: I only saw your post after I posted. I won't engage any further.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Thanks @mtm , appreciated
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    I'm not sure even that is that fair, as as far as we know he may well have been working to temp tracks which Mendes had laid down and given no choice but to reuse the melodies because he was told to do so. Certainly Mendes has recently said on his Classic FM interview to promote 1917 that he considers Spectre to have the superior score (even if he prefers Skyfall as a film): could that be because he controlled it? We don't know.

    Certainly I don't think writing any film score can be a lazy act.

    I actually agree with Mendes. I probably need to give both a rewatch but I definitely remember thinking the SP score worked better in the film than in SF.

    I may have laid it on a bit thick in criticising Newman but I think the difference in approach is pretty clear.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    This must be the only place in the world that Billie Eilish is getting no traction.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Getafix wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    I'm not sure even that is that fair, as as far as we know he may well have been working to temp tracks which Mendes had laid down and given no choice but to reuse the melodies because he was told to do so. Certainly Mendes has recently said on his Classic FM interview to promote 1917 that he considers Spectre to have the superior score (even if he prefers Skyfall as a film): could that be because he controlled it? We don't know.

    Certainly I don't think writing any film score can be a lazy act.

    I actually agree with Mendes. I probably need to give both a rewatch but I definitely remember thinking the SP score worked better in the film than in SF.

    I may have laid it on a bit thick in criticising Newman but I think the difference in approach is pretty clear.

    I think the reason people think SP score works better because it had more potential than SF and it was more fun and entertaining as well (it's the same way i think about TMGTGG score which may not be Barry's best work but it certainly had potential for me). But with SF they had a pretty clear picture in mind what they wanted to do with the score(dark, mysterious, gloomy), if they succeeded in it or not is subjective.
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    I'm not sure even that is that fair, as as far as we know he may well have been working to temp tracks which Mendes had laid down and given no choice but to reuse the melodies because he was told to do so. Certainly Mendes has recently said on his Classic FM interview to promote 1917 that he considers Spectre to have the superior score (even if he prefers Skyfall as a film): could that be because he controlled it? We don't know.

    Certainly I don't think writing any film score can be a lazy act.

    1917 - Now that is a decent score! Credit where credit is due.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2020 Posts: 4,247
    I don't think anyone ever doubted Newman's ability as a Composer....am a fan of Newman's Non-Bond Scores. I have lots of his Scores and listen to them, Scores like 'American Beauty', 'JarHead', 'Road To Perdition', 'The Adjustment Bureau', 'The Debt', 'Revolutionary Road', 'Pay it Forward', 'Less Than Zero', 'The Lost Boys', 'Meet Joe Black' & a whole lot of others including the recent '1917'....all Stellar Scores. It's his approach to Bond I don't like....not him as a Composer. He knows fully well, he isn't an intrinsic Action Composer, he's good at capturing Atmosphere, Romance & Emotions in scores. So he should have used the title song more with hints of the Bond theme here & there to help him with the action moments.
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    Posts: 1,661
    As of today,

    No Time To Die is

    Number 1 on the UK Spotify Top 50 - Daily Plays 510,884

    Number 6 on the Global Spotify Top 50 - Daily Plays 4.2 million

    I think it will be number one on the UK Top 40 chart this afternoon.

    ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,336
    vzok wrote: »
    This must be the only place in the world that Billie Eilish is getting no traction.

    Oh I think the reaction is generally positive, isn't it? I don't know if we can do polls on here but I'm sure it's gone down well, if not seen as the very best.
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    Posts: 1,661
    No Time To Die looks certain to become the second Jame Bond theme tune to reach number one in the UK Top 40. Sam Smith's Writing's On The Wall the other Bond theme to reach number one.

    The chart is revealed today on Radio 1 at 4pm - 5:45pm.
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited February 2020 Posts: 1,661
    No Time To Die - orchestral version done on a computer. The composer is a postman.



    Amazing what you can do on a computer. =D>
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    Posts: 3,022
    Guess what, people:



    UK charts updates in two hours. Fingers crossed

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2020 Posts: 4,582
    mtm wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think there's enough info out there to surmise that Newman was not bending over backwards to work collaboratively with either Adele or Smith. The snippets we get of the title songs in each score were as I understand it insisted on by EON and very grudgingly incorporated by Newman.

    There’s zero evidence to say he did anything ‘grudgingly’. Quite the opposite if you actually read interviews with him. Sure, it’s possible everyone involved was lying, but just because something is possible it doesn’t make it true.
    We don’t know the truth, making up rumours isn’t helpful.

    As much as I don't like Newman's work on SF and SP, and much prefer Arnold, I agree that we don't know if Newman wanted to collaborate or not with the artists. Its all hearsay and rumours, usually by opposing fans of Newman.

    I think its fair to say Newman's work in SP comes off as a bit lazy, as it was basically reworking a lot of what had been done already in SF.

    I'm not sure even that is that fair, as as far as we know he may well have been working to temp tracks which Mendes had laid down and given no choice but to reuse the melodies because he was told to do so. Certainly Mendes has recently said on his Classic FM interview to promote 1917 that he considers Spectre to have the superior score (even if he prefers Skyfall as a film): could that be because he controlled it? We don't know.

    Certainly I don't think writing any film score can be a lazy act.

    This conversation has been going on for years, and it's tiresome.

    Mendes has final say on the music used. Period. It's his decision to take tracks from SF and use them in SP. That is not on Newman. Anyone who watched Ken Burns' (maginifent) documentary on the Vietnam War likely noticed that while he hired Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross to score that film, he also took tracks of theirs from previous films, including The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and incorporated them in, as well. That does not make Reznor/Ross lazy.

    The nonsense about Newman "obviously" not wanting to collaborate is the same as the nonsense that Daniel Craig is "difficult." It's people on these boards writing crap, with the belief that if they write that crap enough times it will somehow jell into truth.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    vzok wrote: »
    This must be the only place in the world that Billie Eilish is getting no traction.
    Who?
  • Jan1985Jan1985
    Posts: 625
    Billie Eilish entered the official german single charts at #5.
    Sam Smith only made it to #17.
  • ContrabandContraband Sweden
    edited February 2020 Posts: 3,022
    Number one on UK singles chart list (her first ever number 1 in UK)

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/

    Billie Eilish's No Time To Die scores biggest opening week of all time for a James Bond theme

    https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/billie-eilishs-no-time-to-die-scores-biggest-opening-week-of-all-time-for-a-james-bond-theme__28767/
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Contraband wrote: »
    Number one on UK singles chart list (her first ever number 1 in UK)

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/

    Thanks @Contraband Great news
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,858
    Sometimes EON knows what they are doing, which is a good thing.
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