Moonraker- Why the hate?

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Comments

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2018 Posts: 15,423
    You're all wrong. The boat chase in Venice is the darkest. And particularly when the double pigeon scene makes it appearance. It was all doom and gloom I was frightened away.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    In a deleted scene, that pigeon's name was revealed to be Hannes Oberhauser. True story.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    In a deleted scene, that pigeon's name was revealed to be Hannes Oberhauser. True story.
    Oh definitely. I heard about that. If only they kept it, it would've made it Oscar-worthy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    All this misplaced MR hate is compelling me to take in a viewing, which I might just do sometime this week.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    bondjames wrote: »
    It was the top grossing film at the box office globally in 1979. If I'm not mistaken, no other Bond film has achieved that result. SF came in second for 2012.

    Not since, no. Previously, there was Goldfinger in 1964 and Diamonds Are Forever in 1971. The latter we can pretty much attribute entirely to the hype around Sean Connery's return, and the former was a genuine smash hit thanks to winning over American audiences.
    Bloody good entertainment I say, and quite frankly that's all that matters to me. There are other films to view if one is a purist.

    Indeed.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Ah, Moonraker. A movie I have so much affection for. The movie I credit with making me the Bond fan I am today. It was the first Bond movie I ever saw a good few years back.

    Sure, it’s silly, but I do think it has some great scenes. The centrifuge, the death of Corrine, Jaws, in clown outfit, slowly walking towards Manuela in Rio and more. The space battle, wow, as a young one first seeing this, I was amazed, it was such spectacle. I’ll always love this movie. It is what it is and it’s all the better for it.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I always feel a bit crept out at that backalley scene where Jaws slowly walks towards Manuela in a clown outfit. It does feel like a horror film.

    There's so much to love about Moonraker. Like the Wiz put it above, remove Jaws comic relief scenes and the romance with Dolly (or her character in a whole), and the film would be a brilliant piece.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The potential was definitely there,which makes it even more frustrating to me.
    The script is indeed very good :

    BANG !!
    "You missed,Mr Bond".
    "Did I ?"
    Man falls out of tree.
    "As you said,such good sport."

    Brilliant.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I love how Manuela almost has her head bitten off by Jaws, and after Bond rescues her we don't get 'Who the f*** was that?' or 'Can you take me home, I seriously need a large brandy'.
    She rubs her neck and says 'Did you find anything in the warehouse?' as if 7 ft tall monsters with metal teeth trying to bite her neck are a daily occurrence.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited January 2018 Posts: 7,021
    I think she knew who he was. Jaws does seem to have certain reputation in the criminal underworld, judging by Drax's comment: "if you can get him!" If Bond knew him, she might've known about him too.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think she knew who he was. Jaws does seem to have certain reputation in the criminal underworld, judging by Drax's comment: "if you can get him!" If Bond knew him, she might've known about him too.

    Maybe. Although the CIA didn't seem to know him.

    I guess MR doesn't require deep scrutiny. It's a movie of it's time, and I'm pleased it exists.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Manuela asking about Jaws also would've meant having Bond tell yet another character about him.
    NicNac wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think she knew who he was. Jaws does seem to have certain reputation in the criminal underworld, judging by Drax's comment: "if you can get him!" If Bond knew him, she might've known about him too.

    I guess MR doesn't require deep scrutiny. It's a movie of it's time, and I'm pleased it exists.
    Exactly. It's about sheer entertainment, at the expense of believability, consistency, etc. That single-mindedness actually makes it legitimately good in its own way, I think.

    If Moonraker was a painting, it would be a sloppy but very passionate one, as opposed to a highly elaborate but dull one.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think she knew who he was. Jaws does seem to have certain reputation in the criminal underworld, judging by Drax's comment: "if you can get him!" If Bond knew him, she might've known about him too.

    Top CIA agent Holly doesn't recognise him but MI6 Brazilian field office bit of skirt Manuela does?

    But as @NicNac says, it's MR so who cares. Just sit back and revel in the sheer indulgence of it all.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    They are from competing intelligence agencies, though. The point is that whether likely or unlikely, explained or not, it's still feasible that one person might know the guy and the other not. In this film, that's enough.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    They are from competing intelligence agencies, though. The point is that whether likely or unlikely, explained or not, it's still feasible that one person might know the guy and the other not. In this film, that's enough.
    Yep! I took it that way.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,438
    I would weigh in and say MR is uneven. The whole plot is a copy of TSWLM although instead of going to the sea the villain is heading to space. There are plot holes galore in this movie but as sheer entertainment I believe it's a good movie overall.

    It's a good gateway Bond for me. I could show it to my 6 year old son and he'd love it and probably get him interested in Bond.

    I think variety is the spice of life and the Bond series shows us this. There is a Bond for every taste and if they were all serious stories with half brothers, and headline criminals then you wouldn't last since 1962!
  • Posts: 1,917
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The potential was definitely there,which makes it even more frustrating to me.
    The script is indeed very good :

    BANG !!
    "You missed,Mr Bond".
    "Did I ?"
    Man falls out of tree.
    "As you said,such good sport."

    Brilliant.

    One of the very best Moore scenes. He and Connery were great at putting a villain in his place and that was one of the great appeals of Bond for me.

    Sadly, it's also made me think of how that's gotten lost in the latest incarnations. Blofeld asking Bond if he came to him to die and Craig Bond's response of "It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?" was such a disappointing comeback.

    Same with Silva's capture on the island in SF and all Bond can say is something like "it's called a radio." Opportunities to shine are lost.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,220
    I always feel a bit crept out at that backalley scene where Jaws slowly walks towards Manuela in a clown outfit. It does feel like a horror film.

    There's so much to love about Moonraker. Like the Wiz put it above, remove Jaws comic relief scenes and the romance with Dolly (or her character in a whole), and the film would be a brilliant piece.

    A big yes to this! I would have liked to have seen a final fight where Bond does in Jaws once and for all.
    I know it’s two different eras, but imagine if they did the same thing with Hinx and made him into s goofy joke.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    talos7 wrote: »
    I always feel a bit crept out at that backalley scene where Jaws slowly walks towards Manuela in a clown outfit. It does feel like a horror film.

    There's so much to love about Moonraker. Like the Wiz put it above, remove Jaws comic relief scenes and the romance with Dolly (or her character in a whole), and the film would be a brilliant piece.
    A big yes to this! I would have liked to have seen a final fight where Bond does in Jaws once and for all.
    I know it’s two different eras, but imagine if they did the same thing with Hinx and made him into s goofy joke.
    While I do agree, now I'm used to Jaws being an ally of Bond's, so possibly not killing him is the route I'd take.

    The video game 007 Legends does get a bad rap among the community, and rightfully so sometimes, but its Moonraker segment that retold the film with Craig's Bond in the lead discarded Dolly for good, and kept the reason for Jaws to team up with Bond intact when the latter convinced him that Drax will eventually get rid of him due to his abnormal growth in comparison to Drax's "perfect specimen".
  • Posts: 11,189
    BT3366 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The potential was definitely there,which makes it even more frustrating to me.
    The script is indeed very good :

    BANG !!
    "You missed,Mr Bond".
    "Did I ?"
    Man falls out of tree.
    "As you said,such good sport."

    Brilliant.

    One of the very best Moore scenes. He and Connery were great at putting a villain in his place and that was one of the great appeals of Bond for me.

    Sadly, it's also made me think of how that's gotten lost in the latest incarnations. Blofeld asking Bond if he came to him to die and Craig Bond's response of "It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?" was such a disappointing comeback.

    Same with Silva's capture on the island in SF and all Bond can say is something like "it's called a radio." Opportunities to shine are lost.

    I thought the radio line was funny as was Craig’s comment of “what makes you think this is my first time”

    Both got laughs from me and the audience I was with in the cinema.

    I kind of agree about SP though. It feels with that film too obvious a throwback to the old Connery/Moore era.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 11,189
    One issue I admittedly have with Moonraker is sometimes Moore himself. His constant smirking starts to wear thin.

    An ageing man trying to act cool. His “how do you kill 5 hours in Rio if you don’t Sanba” line is cringe inducing.

    There I said it.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I never noticed Moore's aging in Moonraker. That was only apparent by the next installment, however.
  • I wouldn't say that I outright 'hate' MR, but it's definitely an examplar of what is, to me, one of the bigger crimes of the Moore era: self-indulgence.

    I can't put much blame on Rog here - I think we mostly agree that the man did admirable work with the material he had. The directors/producers/editors of this era, though, never seemed willing to leave a single idea on the cutting room floor.

    The Bondola scene is a fine example: we have Bond do something crazy. That merits a reaction shot. Do we get one? No, actually, we get:

    -confused sailor
    -drinking tourist
    -confused painter
    -double-taking pigeon
    -double-taking dog
    -confused waiter

    The thugs giving chase are understandably angry to have lost their quarry and slam their fists in anger. But can they speed away in a different direction without one of them falling off the boat? No, of course they can't.

    Sometimes less is more.
  • Posts: 19,339
    octofinger wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that I outright 'hate' MR, but it's definitely an examplar of what is, to me, one of the bigger crimes of the Moore era: self-indulgence.

    I can't put much blame on Rog here - I think we mostly agree that the man did admirable work with the material he had. The directors/producers/editors of this era, though, never seemed willing to leave a single idea on the cutting room floor.

    The Bondola scene is a fine example: we have Bond do something crazy. That merits a reaction shot. Do we get one? No, actually, we get:

    -confused sailor
    -drinking tourist
    -confused painter
    -double-taking pigeon
    -double-taking dog
    -confused waiter

    The thugs giving chase are understandably angry to have lost their quarry and slam their fists in anger. But can they speed away in a different direction without one of them falling off the boat? No, of course they can't.

    Sometimes less is more.

    If only we had someone here who could 'trim' MR a bit,it would be interesting to see how it would look.

  • Posts: 4,044
    octofinger wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that I outright 'hate' MR, but it's definitely an examplar of what is, to me, one of the bigger crimes of the Moore era: self-indulgence.

    I can't put much blame on Rog here - I think we mostly agree that the man did admirable work with the material he had. The directors/producers/editors of this era, though, never seemed willing to leave a single idea on the cutting room floor.

    The Bondola scene is a fine example: we have Bond do something crazy. That merits a reaction shot. Do we get one? No, actually, we get:

    -confused sailor
    -drinking tourist
    -confused painter
    -double-taking pigeon
    -double-taking dog
    -confused waiter.

    I can hear Bernard Lee reading out that list
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It was in the theatre watching MR that I first thought to myself that he was looking old. Obviously that became greatly amplified with each ensuing film, but it was pretty jarring on the big screen in'79 after not seeing him for three years.

    I hate to be a nitpick, but it was only 23 months since TSWLM.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Are we talking about Sir Rog looking old in MR? I don't think so. I only notice it in FYEO (particularly in the PTS when he finally gets control of the helicopter and again when he first meets Ferrara in Cortina).

    I think he looks just fine in MR personally. In fact, at times younger than he does in the preceding TSWLM. It could be the lighter hair dye.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    MR is the height of the whimsical/fantastical Bond; almost a sub-genre in itself. On those terms, it’s pretty much a masterpiece.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 12,475
    I actually felt like MR is the first time Moore starts to show some serious age. And then it got more and more noticeable with his last 3. He looks pretty youthful for his age throughout almost all of LALD, TMWTGG, and TSWLM I think.
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