Quick Big Mi6 Music Score Ranking Game

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Comments

  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Excellent to see TLD in top 5
    +1
    I don’t think anyone can argue with YOLT, OHMSS, and MR being the holy trinity of Bond scores.
    zebrafish wrote: »
    But not all is well here - how can MR be better than this???
    It had just been argued 🙂

    I personally find not MR (not at all), but the OHMSS score comparatively disappointing, compared to Barry's best Bond scores (very controversial opinion probably). Although it's a really good score, too.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,033
    It’s okay… it made sense in my head, but of course we’re all here to debate. Those 3 always seems a step above though. Lots of amazing scores to choose from!
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 6,844
    I'm very happy to find that YOLT, OHMSS, MR, and AVTAK have made the top four. You have chosen wisely, MI6!

    The Living Daylights has a lot of great moments. I particularly like the way Barry builds suspense and tension throughout "The Sniper Was a Woman," and "Mujahadin and Opium" is a very lovely and atmospheric cue. I'm also fond of how the title song is turned into a heroic action theme in "Assassin" and "Hercules Takes Off" (the first time we'd seen this done since The Man with the Golden Gun and Live and Let Die). And @goldenswissroyale, I too love the dramatic fight music heard in "Airbase Jailbreak." Barry's love theme for The Living Daylights was definitely not on par with that of A View to a Kill, and this one wouldn't make my own top 5 Barrys, but it was still a very solid final score for him to bow out on. I also love that Barry himself managed to get a cameo as the orchestra conductor in his final film.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    TLD was my number one. Everybody always remembers the synthy elements, but as great as that stuff is, the score is also filled with classic, more traditional Bond music as well. On my last watch it was these that grabbed my attention more than the action cues.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    TLD was my number one. Everybody always remembers the synthy elements, but as great as that stuff is, the score is also filled with classic, more traditional Bond music as well. On my last watch it was these that grabbed my attention more than the action cues.

    I love both of those elements, and what I like even more than that is that Barry combines those elements so well.
  • Posts: 1,469
    I had it at #10, only because my list had stiff competition above. My favorite track is probably Necros Attacks, which I've listened to several times recently. It's been said this was Barry's last for the series, and I think it echoes his voice of experience, blending the classic Bond sound with that of 1987.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    ...I also like the mix of traditional instruments with synth elements...
    ...Everybody always remembers the synthy elements, but as great as that stuff is, the score is also filled with classic, more traditional Bond music as well...
    I agree!
    Sometimes the basic keyboard or synth and drum track mix can be a bit repetitive, but I think it really works for the film--which has so much action--and for Dalton's solid yet alert and quick character, plus it reflects the music of the time.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Oh, I absolutely love this score. I think Barry goes out with a bang. I find the theme song awesome...
    I too really like the theme song. Hard to tell Barry had tension with A-ha. It was written he said working with them was like "playing ping-pong with four balls. They had an attitude which I really didn’t like at all. It was not a pleasant experience."

    The book The Music of James Bond quotes Barry: "We also found that there was much more of a romantic feel this time, as opposed to any of the other Bond films. The love affair between Bond and the heroine is more sincere. I thought it would be lovely at the end of the movie, instead of going back to the main title song, to have a love ballad, which is the love theme that is used throughout the four or five love scenes used in the picture, with lyrics by Chrissie".

    With the film's release and his Bond music done, Barry took out a full-page ad in Variety saying, "Congratulations Cubby. It's been a great 25 years. Your friend, John Barry."
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Some years later, A-ha apologized and admitted they were immature at the time to go into the studio thinking they knew more than Barry.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    a-ha may have been immature at the time, but I do prefer the version they did for their 1988 album....
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Thrasos wrote: »
    Barry: "We also found that there was much more of a romantic feel this time, as opposed to any of the other Bond films. The love affair between Bond and the heroine is more sincere. I thought it would be lovely at the end of the movie, instead of going back to the main title song, to have a love ballad, which is the love theme that is used throughout the four or five love scenes used in the picture, with lyrics by Chrissie".

    That's always been the thing for me. Even more than a romantic score, this one humanizes Bond. There's just something about the cues Barry plays and when. The score has these calm moments of vulnerability. Bond meeting Kara for the first time at her place, with that gentle flute doing a little "If There Was A Man" and Dalton's genuine attitude of caring, is a great example of TLD taking Bond places we hadn't seen him go in a very long time.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Coming up next is our number 4:

    MOONRAKER
    Music composed by
    JOHN BARRY

    moonraker-black-vinyl-600x574.jpg

    James Bond's space adventure proofs to have a score that is considerably better appreciated than the movie it goes with.

    It collected nine top 5's: one gold medal, two silvers, two bronzes, two 4th places and two 5th places.

    Nine more top 10's were received, four of those were 6th spots. Which means more than half of us considers this a top 6 007 score.

    Any bad news? Not really, MR's lowest placement was a single 17th spot.

    The original music for MR obtained 167 points.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 1,469
    I thought it deserved #3, so, very close. There are so many great selections in the score, and the large scope of the film really let Barry stretch out in all directions. Bond Meets Corinne is romantic without being soppy. Boat Chase is a great version of the 007 theme, slower and less frenetic than others but still adventuresome. Rivers and Pyramids, with its French horn I think, is short but splendid, and then there's the stunning Bond Lured to Pyramid--in this last one I can hear at least one phrase or sequence of notes that sounds a lot like one he used later in his score for Dances with Wolves. I also enjoy the space-related music passages.

    I read Barry had wanted to write an eight-movement symphonic suite which would go on a double album and from which they could take parts to form the film score, but that didn't work out--maybe that creative inspiration he had helps explain the grandness of the score. He also thought the original recording sounded better than the mix that ended up on film: "I was very disappointed with the dub of Moonraker...Personally, I believe Lewis Gilbert’s ears were out to lunch when he made that dub. I think a director should spend a few days familiarizing himself with what Dolby offers and how best to employ these new balances and perspectives in order to get the maximum effect instead of simply going in cold with a traditional mind." Still, his composing and conducting shine through and for me help make MR a lot of fun to watch.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    It took me years as a kid to realize that MR was generally perceived as a "bad" Bond film; or rather, as something other than a Bond film--just a film, with Roger Moore in it. Yet from day 1, I had loved this film as a young boy. When one gets older, the flaws become obvious, but a "bad" film? -- no, that's an evaluation I've always strongly rejected.

    Say what you want, MR is a technically accomplished film full of talented people on and off stage. But the main reason why I think of MR as not just an acceptable film but an absolute treat is John Barry's heavenly score.

    In my personal opinion, Barry was going through one of his best phases. His scores for King Kong and The Black Hole, to name but a few, are two other cases of films that could have been so-and-so but were elevated to something much more thanks to Barry. MR is no exception. In fact, MR is the film that made me realize exactly how important an adequate score truly is. Even when the film misses a few beats here or there, a great score can still provide the connective tissue that makes everything work and click no matter what.

    It starts early on for me, when the two thugs crawl out of hiding in the Moonraker shuttle and Barry starts playing ominous yet somewhat "spacey" (as in: related to a space adventure) music. When Bond tries to strap on the parachute mid-air, I love the almost ethereal sound Barry provides. And this film's theme song is yet another musical victory for the composer, not just because it's a very good song indeed, but also because of all its variations, from sensual to exotic, Barry will smuggle into the score.

    Some highlights: Corinne shows Bond the safe, Corinne is pursued by the dogs, Venini Glass, Bond arrives in Rio. But nothing compares to the excellence Barry will bring next: Bond flies over the waterfalls, Bond is lured to the pyramid and especially Flight Into Space. This isn't just "beautiful" music like we'd come to expect from Barry at this point, I'd say this is where he adds an emotional layer rarely seen in a Bond film before and; probably, a little odd in this particular film, but most welcome nevertheless. Flight Into Space in particular is a piece of art, a musical construction that comes in layers, that builds and speaks to us and almost makes us forget that we're essentially watching a 007 spy flick.

    If I can have a beef with the film in the music department, it's with the quality of the sound. Following what @Thrasos posted, my feeling is that someone dropped the original recording on tape, wore the tape out, and then somehow used that for the film. Some notes sound "off", some of the music sounds like it was recorded in the '40s. Compared to the "clarity" of the music in previous Bond films, MR seems to have drastically lowered its sound quality standard. These issues are audible on the soundtrack CD as well. Sometimes, when the orchestra is supposed to hold a note, the sound comes with a strange sort of vibration, indicating that it's not all there, that whatever was played during the recording sessions didn't all make it into the final sound mix. Given the quality of the music, that is a shame.

    So will we ever get to that dreamed-of release of a full MR score, digitally remastered or whatever? I'm not sure. People have told me it can't be done since the original recordings may not even have survived. And what about someone else re-recording the score, that is if all of Barry's paperwork and notes can still be traced? Some say it'd never sound quite the same. And what about directly prying the score off the film and digitally enhancing it? Well, I guess it's tough to plug up data holes, remove sound effects and re-align the volume. So perhaps MR will forever be that one unfortunate case in the Bond music department, the film with a tremendous score that somehow got lost in translation. But even then, it is and shall always remain one of Barry's best scores ever.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    MR comes in at #3 for me. Sublime excellence, this one, I really love it. It's about as epic as they come.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Great score, with not much missing music on the album. Yet still they skipped such fabulous tracks - Bond escaping over the waterfall, hijack of the shuttle, Venini Glass, Gondola chase, carnival music, Freefall.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I had MR at 5. But this is equally as good.
    So the last three remaining are, YOLT, OHMSS and AVTAK?
  • Benny wrote: »
    So the last three remaining are, YOLT, OHMSS and AVTAK?

    I'm very happy about this top 3—my top 3 Barrys. I suspect we'll see AVTAK, then YOLT, then OHMSS, but then again this game has been full of surprises.

    Moonraker is a Top 10 Bond score for me and only behind YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, and AVTAK from Barry. Barry composed some of his grandest and most haunting cues for this film ("Arrival at Chateau Drax," "Death of Corrine," "Rivers and Pyramids," "Bond Lured to Pyramid," "Flight into Space"), and the unreleased "Freefall" from the PTS is a riveting rendition of the Bond theme.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    AVTAK will get bronze, I'm pretty sure. YOLT and OHMSS are a league for its own. I hope that YOLT will win. Both are a perfect match for the movie and even improve the scenes but YOLT is simply more beautiful to listen to.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AVTAK will get bronze, I'm pretty sure. YOLT and OHMSS are a league for its own. I hope that YOLT will win. Both are a perfect match for the movie and even improve the scenes but YOLT is simply more beautiful to listen to.

    Either of those two would be a worthy winner. They are both in my top four. I am surprised to see AVTAK in the top three here. I know it has many fans here, and it s a great score. It s just that I find many others more to my liking.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    AVTAK will get bronze, I'm pretty sure. YOLT and OHMSS are a league for its own. I hope that YOLT will win. Both are a perfect match for the movie and even improve the scenes but YOLT is simply more beautiful to listen to.
    I ranked OHMSS first and YOLT second but could have easily switched between these two.
    YOLT is the Bond score I listen to the most and the first I bought. It’s a delight from start to finish, not to mention it features the best title song of the series.
    I ended up giving the edge to OHMSS because of its uniqueness in terms of the sounds Barry introduced and its diversity.
    But I agree that YOLT remains the most exquisite Bond soundtrack and a top example of Barry’s genius as a composer and arranger.
    Ominous has never sounded more beautiful than on this record.
  • edited July 2021 Posts: 1,469
    I've enjoyed all your comments about MR! @Some_Kind_Of_Hero "grandest and most haunting"...a good way to put it! @DarthDimi I agree with your assessment that the film is an absolute treat. Just checked my film ranking and can't believe I have MR down at #15, but that's because I think there's stiff competition above and I rank fairly objectively. I may have to revisit that list, and I now see a few I can or should move below MR.

    Anyway, I was wondering, what happened with John Barry for him to make the Moonraker score so good with an evolved style and inspiration? The site filmmusicnotes suggests that the more symphonic style of MR was partly influenced by the success of John Williams’ score for Star Wars two years before--and we know what a big impression that score made at the time--just as the producers picked the film to take advantage of the sci-fi craze at the time. I also think the film locations and settings of the film may've helped to inspire some of the music, and I think especially of Bond Lured to Pyramid. With an expert like Barry, how could you not write such beautiful music as Bond sees the Blonde Beauty in her billowing and revealing gown or robe, suspecting she was the woman he saw at Venini Glass, walking through green jungle with waterfalls and a stone pyramid. I think he uses a flute to mimic bird sounds. Plus I think, during the space scenes especially, you had to go with symphonic music rather than something with a more modern beat like in The Living Daylights.

    The last Bond film he worked on before MR was TMWTGG, a full five years earlier. Before that he worked on so many Bond films in rapid succession, with the second biggest space between films being three years between DAF and TMWTGG. Between 1974 and 1979, he scored nine or 10 non-Bond films, including King Kong; Robin and Marian with Sean Connery (also co-starring Robert Shaw); and The Deep, also with Robert Shaw. The same year MR came out, Hanover Street starring Harrison Ford did as well, which he scored, though I don't know which one he scored first. The link below from Hanover Street shows his orchestral and somewhat romantic style in that one too, around the same time. Plus in between those Bond films he did some TV scores. So it doesn't seem like he took a lot of time off for a relaxing vacation and drew inspiration from that. He married his fourth wife in 1978, which may've inspired some intimate, imaginative and expansive themes. They met through Barbara Broccoli.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    Despite all the praise heaped on the MR score, the sad thing is that the soundtrack CD only is 30 minutes and the sound quality is not worthy of a CD. What went wrong here?
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited July 2021 Posts: 1,711
    While the soundtrack albums are relevant to the discussion, I am wondering how many of us thought primarily of them rather than the music as presented in the films....

    But I love Moonraker and had it somewhere in the top ten. Happy to see this finish. Even more delighted to see that AVTAK made the top three! I expected lower top ten for that one.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    A few things I wanted to say on several scores that have come up in the ranking:

    Goldfinger

    In the soundtrack album, there are two tracks that employ a musical device that I don't think was used in other Barry scores. I'm talking about having brief, loud brass outbursts in an otherwise quiet piece, as if to suggest a hidden danger that could erupt any minute. This concept is applied in Auric's Factory and Death of Tilly. The score is full of highlights but the latter track might be my favorite. I've always liked the irregular intervals between the brass bursts. It's such a simple composition, but so effective. In that sense, it reminds me of the music in YOLT that plays when Bond dresses up as the assassin and gets taken to Osato Chemicals.


    From Russia with Love

    A bit of trivia that I love to spread around, and which I believe I read on the Film Score Monthly forums, is that a French vinyl release from back in the day includes a track titled Mort de Krylenko, that is, Death of Krilencu. This track is of course sadly absent from the common soundtrack album.

    For me, one of the highlights of the album is Girl Trouble, with those sinister xylophone phrases. James Bond with Bongos is another splendid track. Note how the vamp of the Bond theme is played on low celli, while in later scores it is often played on a higher octave (look no further than the Goldfinger gunbarrel music for comparison). It gives it a subtly different feel-- lower is more sinister, roughly speaking. Another highlight are the Opening Titles, and in particular, the sublime transition between the end of the From Russia with Love theme and the beginning of the Bond theme. I also wish they had included in the album the cue that is heard right after the titles; it's quite beautiful.

    The unreleased music of the train scenes (re-recorded as The Zagreb Express in another album) is ingenious in how it translates the shots of the train into a repetitive, mechanical sound.


    Diamonds Are Forever

    This score has my favorite version of the 007 theme (the one from Moonraker is in second place). I love the arrangement; it sounds so rich and grand. The xylophone/piccolos/brass phrases always make me think of the Looney Tunes, which is appropriate for the lighthearted tone of the scene.


    Live and Let Die

    I wanted to address this comment:
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The problem for me is that he didn't use the Theme all that well. Why would you play it when Bond is in a cab, not even driving the cab himself--just looking around nervously and giving orders to the driver? That's not a very impressive, cool, "Bondian" thing to do. Also, the Theme was butchered in that scene, played with the least bit of musical imagination, just statically punching out the notes.
    This comment made me think of something I read on the Goldfinger score, I don't remember where, but the point being made was that that theme isn't treated as a motif for the character (not all the time anyway), but as the main theme for the film. There is a fluidity to its purpose, and part of its purpose is to be musical connective tissue to tie the score together. I don't know what George Martin or anyone else was thinking when they decided to use the Bond theme in that taxi scene in Live and Let Die, because I wasn't there when it happened, but strictly as a viewer, I can see some kind of parallel between that decision, and the decision to use the Goldfinger theme in the way I mentioned.

    And in another sense, the Bond theme works for me in that taxicab scene, because the scene is about building intrigue and danger, even excitement at seeing how large the villain's operation is (with someone on every corner to report the taxi's whereabouts) and at seeing Bond entering the lion's den. There is a larger-than-life quality to it all that goes well with the Bond theme.

    I don't find the theme is played with a lack of imagination. The opening 30 seconds, before the guitar kicks in, offer some pleasant if subtle changes, as does the modulation or key change toward the end. But the real distinctive qualities of this version have to do with the instrumentation. It is very rich and detailed, as the terrific mix of the 2003 album allows us to hear. I'm partial to the oboe/clarinet accents heard over the guitar (echoes of the later Barry arrangement of the Bond theme, with brass accents over the string/woodwind melody). I also like the high flutter-tonguing flute in the background which emphasizes the fifth of the chord.

    The arrangement is, of course, perfectly seventies, and fits the locale like a glove. It sounds cool and a bit sinister. I also find its expressiveness enhances the subtly comedic tone of the scene.


    The Living Daylights

    Exercise at Gibraltar and Ice Chase feature a brilliant new version of the Bond theme. The first three minutes of the former track also offer a terrific set of bite-sized themes that perfectly lead into each other and create a suspenseful mood.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Then there's that musically dramatic takeoff of the jet in Austria, followed by that little victory tune, followed then by the Bond theme is just an outstanding piece of work.
    I agree with this. The transition from one part into the other is very satisfying.


    Moonraker

    I really like this score. I just want to focus on a single moment. It's the one where Bond spies on Goodhead at the Venini Glass museum. I've always liked the music here. It's so full of emotional depth that it clearly goes beyond the immediate action it is meant to be scoring, and plays off of the setting, with the aged walls and ancient columns of the building evoking a wistful mood.

    I want to get back on recreating the unreleased music of the Goldfinger score on virtual instruments. As a warm up exercise, I recreated the Moonraker piece I mention. You can listen to it here, and download it if you wish (crossposted in the lost music thread):

    https://mega.nz/file/4UAnWYLQ#n9lE2dwUiC6XfFaIuFpuG8V-L6cxWF6BlJoM98tcSqo

    Last but not least, I wanted to ask our fellow users, what do you think of this film's arrangement of the James Bond theme? The one heard in the gunbarrel, the freefall scene and the gondola chase. I've talked at length about it before, but I was wondering how other people felt about it. I recall some YouTube comments saying that the gunbarrel music sounds like circus music, or that the orchestra was out of tune, or was cleaning the wind instruments. Not big fans of it, obviously.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited July 2021 Posts: 2,148
    @mattjoes very interesting post, or as Bond himself would say… “illuminating”.
    As to MR’s gunbarrel, I actually quite like it with its distinctive and instantly recognizable arrangement.
    Would actually be cool to have a future topic, ranking the different gunbarrels.
    Proud to say my daughter and I can instantly recognize each gunbarrel within 2 seconds of it being played.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    mattjoes wrote: »
    A few things I wanted to say on several scores that have come up in the ranking:

    Goldfinger

    In the soundtrack album, there are two tracks that employ a musical device that I don't think was used in other Barry scores. I'm talking about having brief, loud brass outbursts in an otherwise quiet piece, as if to suggest a hidden danger that could erupt any minute. This concept is applied in Auric's Factory and Death of Tilly. The score is full of highlights but the latter track might be my favorite. I've always liked the irregular intervals between the brass bursts. It's such a simple composition, but so effective. In that sense, it reminds me of the music in YOLT that plays when Bond dresses up as the assassin and gets taken to Osato Chemicals.


    From Russia with Love

    A bit of trivia that I love to spread around, and which I believe I read on the Film Score Monthly forums, is that a French vinyl release from back in the day includes a track titled Mort de Krylenko, that is, Death of Krilencu. This track is of course sadly absent from the common soundtrack album.

    For me, one of the highlights of the album is Girl Trouble, with those sinister xylophone phrases. James Bond with Bongos is another splendid track. Note how the vamp of the Bond theme is played on low celli, while in later scores it is often played on a higher octave (look no further than the Goldfinger gunbarrel music for comparison). It gives it a subtly different feel-- lower is more sinister, roughly speaking. Another highlight are the Opening Titles, and in particular, the sublime transition between the end of the From Russia with Love theme and the beginning of the Bond theme. I also wish they had included in the album the cue that is heard right after the titles; it's quite beautiful.

    The unreleased music of the train scenes (re-recorded as The Zagreb Express in another album) is ingenious in how it translates the shots of the train into a repetitive, mechanical sound.


    Diamonds Are Forever

    This score has my favorite version of the 007 theme (the one from Moonraker is in second place). I love the arrangement; it sounds so rich and grand. The xylophone/piccolos/brass phrases always make me think of the Looney Tunes, which is appropriate for the lighthearted tone of the scene.


    Live and Let Die

    I wanted to address this comment:
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The problem for me is that he didn't use the Theme all that well. Why would you play it when Bond is in a cab, not even driving the cab himself--just looking around nervously and giving orders to the driver? That's not a very impressive, cool, "Bondian" thing to do. Also, the Theme was butchered in that scene, played with the least bit of musical imagination, just statically punching out the notes.
    This comment made me think of something I read on the Goldfinger score, I don't remember where, but the point being made was that that theme isn't treated as a motif for the character (not all the time anyway), but as the main theme for the film. There is a fluidity to its purpose, and part of its purpose is to be musical connective tissue to tie the score together. I don't know what George Martin or anyone else was thinking when they decided to use the Bond theme in that taxi scene in Live and Let Die, because I wasn't there when it happened, but strictly as a viewer, I can see some kind of parallel between that decision, and the decision to use the Goldfinger theme in the way I mentioned.

    And in another sense, the Bond theme works for me in that taxicab scene, because the scene is about building intrigue and danger, even excitement at seeing how large the villain's operation is (with someone on every corner to report the taxi's whereabouts) and at seeing Bond entering the lion's den. There is a larger-than-life quality to it all that goes well with the Bond theme.

    I don't find the theme is played with a lack of imagination. The opening 30 seconds, before the guitar kicks in, offer some pleasant if subtle changes, as does the modulation or key change toward the end. But the real distinctive qualities of this version have to do with the instrumentation. It is very rich and detailed, as the terrific mix of the 2003 album allows us to hear. I'm partial to the oboe/clarinet accents heard over the guitar (echoes of the later Barry arrangement of the Bond theme, with brass accents over the string/woodwind melody). I also like the high flutter-tonguing flute in the background which emphasizes the fifth of the chord.

    The arrangement is, of course, perfectly seventies, and fits the locale like a glove. It sounds cool and a bit sinister. I also find its expressiveness enhances the subtly comedic tone of the scene.


    The Living Daylights

    Exercise at Gibraltar and Ice Chase feature a brilliant new version of the Bond theme. The first three minutes of the former track also offer a terrific set of bite-sized themes that perfectly lead into each other and create a suspenseful mood.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Then there's that musically dramatic takeoff of the jet in Austria, followed by that little victory tune, followed then by the Bond theme is just an outstanding piece of work.
    I agree with this. The transition from one part into the other is very satisfying.


    Moonraker

    I really like this score. I just want to focus on a single moment. It's the one where Bond spies on Goodhead at the Venini Glass museum. I've always liked the music here. It's so full of emotional depth that it clearly goes beyond the immediate action it is meant to be scoring, and plays off of the setting, with the aged walls and ancient columns of the building evoking a wistful mood.

    I want to get back on recreating the unreleased music of the Goldfinger score on virtual instruments. As a warm up exercise, I recreated the Moonraker piece I mention. You can listen to it here, and download it if you wish (crossposted in the lost music thread):

    https://mega.nz/file/4UAnWYLQ#n9lE2dwUiC6XfFaIuFpuG8V-L6cxWF6BlJoM98tcSqo

    Last but not least, I wanted to ask our fellow users, what do you think of this film's arrangement of the James Bond theme? The one heard in the gunbarrel, the freefall scene and the gondola chase. I've talked at length about it before, but I was wondering how other people felt about it. I recall some YouTube comments saying that the gunbarrel music sounds like circus music, or that the orchestra was out of tune, or was cleaning the wind instruments. Not big fans of it, obviously.

    This is a fantastic post.
  • Thrasos wrote: »
    I've enjoyed all your comments about MR! @Some_Kind_Of_Hero "grandest and most haunting"...a good way to put it! @DarthDimi I agree with your assessment that the film is an absolute treat. Just checked my film ranking and can't believe I have MR down at #15, but that's because I think there's stiff competition above and I rank fairly objectively. I may have to revisit that list, and I now see a few I can or should move below MR.

    Anyway, I was wondering, what happened with John Barry for him to make the Moonraker score so good with an evolved style and inspiration? The site filmmusicnotes suggests that the more symphonic style of MR was partly influenced by the success of John Williams’ score for Star Wars two years before--and we know what a big impression that score made at the time--just as the producers picked the film to take advantage of the sci-fi craze at the time. I also think the film locations and settings of the film may've helped to inspire some of the music, and I think especially of Bond Lured to Pyramid. With an expert like Barry, how could you not write such beautiful music as Bond sees the Blonde Beauty in her billowing and revealing gown or robe, suspecting she was the woman he saw at Venini Glass, walking through green jungle with waterfalls and a stone pyramid. I think he uses a flute to mimic bird sounds. Plus I think, during the space scenes especially, you had to go with symphonic music rather than something with a more modern beat like in The Living Daylights.

    The last Bond film he worked on before MR was TMWTGG, a full five years earlier. Before that he worked on so many Bond films in rapid succession, with the second biggest space between films being three years between DAF and TMWTGG. Between 1974 and 1979, he scored nine or 10 non-Bond films, including King Kong; Robin and Marian with Sean Connery (also co-starring Robert Shaw); and The Deep, also with Robert Shaw. The same year MR came out, Hanover Street starring Harrison Ford did as well, which he scored, though I don't know which one he scored first. The link below from Hanover Street shows his orchestral and somewhat romantic style in that one too, around the same time. Plus in between those Bond films he did some TV scores. So it doesn't seem like he took a lot of time off for a relaxing vacation and drew inspiration from that. He married his fourth wife in 1978, which may've inspired some intimate, imaginative and expansive themes. They met through Barbara Broccoli.

    Never seen Hanover Street but the opening of this cue is the exact same as the opening of "Miss Goodhead Meets Bond."



    It also sounds not all that dissimilar from Until September. Barry definitely had fallen in love with and developed a particular sound from the late 70s through the mid 80s.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    @mattjoes very interesting post, or as Bond himself would say… “illuminating”.
    As to MR’s gunbarrel, I actually quite like it with its distinctive and instantly recognizable arrangement.
    Would actually be cool to have a future topic, ranking the different gunbarrels.
    Proud to say my daughter and I can instantly recognize each gunbarrel within 2 seconds of it being played.
    Thank you.

    I like the MR arrangement too. You might want to check out this topic I created a while ago on the music of the gunbarrel sequences: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18881/a-detailed-guide-to-the-music-of-the-gunbarrel-sequences/

    And great idea about ranking the gunbarrels. @GoldenGun, there's something to take into consideration.


    mattjoes wrote: »
    A few things I wanted to say on several scores that have come up in the ranking:

    Goldfinger

    In the soundtrack album, there are two tracks that employ a musical device that I don't think was used in other Barry scores. I'm talking about having brief, loud brass outbursts in an otherwise quiet piece, as if to suggest a hidden danger that could erupt any minute. This concept is applied in Auric's Factory and Death of Tilly. The score is full of highlights but the latter track might be my favorite. I've always liked the irregular intervals between the brass bursts. It's such a simple composition, but so effective. In that sense, it reminds me of the music in YOLT that plays when Bond dresses up as the assassin and gets taken to Osato Chemicals.


    From Russia with Love

    A bit of trivia that I love to spread around, and which I believe I read on the Film Score Monthly forums, is that a French vinyl release from back in the day includes a track titled Mort de Krylenko, that is, Death of Krilencu. This track is of course sadly absent from the common soundtrack album.

    For me, one of the highlights of the album is Girl Trouble, with those sinister xylophone phrases. James Bond with Bongos is another splendid track. Note how the vamp of the Bond theme is played on low celli, while in later scores it is often played on a higher octave (look no further than the Goldfinger gunbarrel music for comparison). It gives it a subtly different feel-- lower is more sinister, roughly speaking. Another highlight are the Opening Titles, and in particular, the sublime transition between the end of the From Russia with Love theme and the beginning of the Bond theme. I also wish they had included in the album the cue that is heard right after the titles; it's quite beautiful.

    The unreleased music of the train scenes (re-recorded as The Zagreb Express in another album) is ingenious in how it translates the shots of the train into a repetitive, mechanical sound.


    Diamonds Are Forever

    This score has my favorite version of the 007 theme (the one from Moonraker is in second place). I love the arrangement; it sounds so rich and grand. The xylophone/piccolos/brass phrases always make me think of the Looney Tunes, which is appropriate for the lighthearted tone of the scene.


    Live and Let Die

    I wanted to address this comment:
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The problem for me is that he didn't use the Theme all that well. Why would you play it when Bond is in a cab, not even driving the cab himself--just looking around nervously and giving orders to the driver? That's not a very impressive, cool, "Bondian" thing to do. Also, the Theme was butchered in that scene, played with the least bit of musical imagination, just statically punching out the notes.
    This comment made me think of something I read on the Goldfinger score, I don't remember where, but the point being made was that that theme isn't treated as a motif for the character (not all the time anyway), but as the main theme for the film. There is a fluidity to its purpose, and part of its purpose is to be musical connective tissue to tie the score together. I don't know what George Martin or anyone else was thinking when they decided to use the Bond theme in that taxi scene in Live and Let Die, because I wasn't there when it happened, but strictly as a viewer, I can see some kind of parallel between that decision, and the decision to use the Goldfinger theme in the way I mentioned.

    And in another sense, the Bond theme works for me in that taxicab scene, because the scene is about building intrigue and danger, even excitement at seeing how large the villain's operation is (with someone on every corner to report the taxi's whereabouts) and at seeing Bond entering the lion's den. There is a larger-than-life quality to it all that goes well with the Bond theme.

    I don't find the theme is played with a lack of imagination. The opening 30 seconds, before the guitar kicks in, offer some pleasant if subtle changes, as does the modulation or key change toward the end. But the real distinctive qualities of this version have to do with the instrumentation. It is very rich and detailed, as the terrific mix of the 2003 album allows us to hear. I'm partial to the oboe/clarinet accents heard over the guitar (echoes of the later Barry arrangement of the Bond theme, with brass accents over the string/woodwind melody). I also like the high flutter-tonguing flute in the background which emphasizes the fifth of the chord.

    The arrangement is, of course, perfectly seventies, and fits the locale like a glove. It sounds cool and a bit sinister. I also find its expressiveness enhances the subtly comedic tone of the scene.


    The Living Daylights

    Exercise at Gibraltar and Ice Chase feature a brilliant new version of the Bond theme. The first three minutes of the former track also offer a terrific set of bite-sized themes that perfectly lead into each other and create a suspenseful mood.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Then there's that musically dramatic takeoff of the jet in Austria, followed by that little victory tune, followed then by the Bond theme is just an outstanding piece of work.
    I agree with this. The transition from one part into the other is very satisfying.


    Moonraker

    I really like this score. I just want to focus on a single moment. It's the one where Bond spies on Goodhead at the Venini Glass museum. I've always liked the music here. It's so full of emotional depth that it clearly goes beyond the immediate action it is meant to be scoring, and plays off of the setting, with the aged walls and ancient columns of the building evoking a wistful mood.

    I want to get back on recreating the unreleased music of the Goldfinger score on virtual instruments. As a warm up exercise, I recreated the Moonraker piece I mention. You can listen to it here, and download it if you wish (crossposted in the lost music thread):

    https://mega.nz/file/4UAnWYLQ#n9lE2dwUiC6XfFaIuFpuG8V-L6cxWF6BlJoM98tcSqo

    Last but not least, I wanted to ask our fellow users, what do you think of this film's arrangement of the James Bond theme? The one heard in the gunbarrel, the freefall scene and the gondola chase. I've talked at length about it before, but I was wondering how other people felt about it. I recall some YouTube comments saying that the gunbarrel music sounds like circus music, or that the orchestra was out of tune, or was cleaning the wind instruments. Not big fans of it, obviously.

    This is a fantastic post.
    Thank you.

    Thrasos wrote: »
    I've enjoyed all your comments about MR! @Some_Kind_Of_Hero "grandest and most haunting"...a good way to put it! @DarthDimi I agree with your assessment that the film is an absolute treat. Just checked my film ranking and can't believe I have MR down at #15, but that's because I think there's stiff competition above and I rank fairly objectively. I may have to revisit that list, and I now see a few I can or should move below MR.

    Anyway, I was wondering, what happened with John Barry for him to make the Moonraker score so good with an evolved style and inspiration? The site filmmusicnotes suggests that the more symphonic style of MR was partly influenced by the success of John Williams’ score for Star Wars two years before--and we know what a big impression that score made at the time--just as the producers picked the film to take advantage of the sci-fi craze at the time. I also think the film locations and settings of the film may've helped to inspire some of the music, and I think especially of Bond Lured to Pyramid. With an expert like Barry, how could you not write such beautiful music as Bond sees the Blonde Beauty in her billowing and revealing gown or robe, suspecting she was the woman he saw at Venini Glass, walking through green jungle with waterfalls and a stone pyramid. I think he uses a flute to mimic bird sounds. Plus I think, during the space scenes especially, you had to go with symphonic music rather than something with a more modern beat like in The Living Daylights.

    The last Bond film he worked on before MR was TMWTGG, a full five years earlier. Before that he worked on so many Bond films in rapid succession, with the second biggest space between films being three years between DAF and TMWTGG. Between 1974 and 1979, he scored nine or 10 non-Bond films, including King Kong; Robin and Marian with Sean Connery (also co-starring Robert Shaw); and The Deep, also with Robert Shaw. The same year MR came out, Hanover Street starring Harrison Ford did as well, which he scored, though I don't know which one he scored first. The link below from Hanover Street shows his orchestral and somewhat romantic style in that one too, around the same time. Plus in between those Bond films he did some TV scores. So it doesn't seem like he took a lot of time off for a relaxing vacation and drew inspiration from that. He married his fourth wife in 1978, which may've inspired some intimate, imaginative and expansive themes. They met through Barbara Broccoli.

    Never seen Hanover Street but the opening of this cue is the exact same as the opening of "Miss Goodhead Meets Bond."



    It also sounds not all that dissimilar from Until September. Barry definitely had fallen in love with and developed a particular sound from the late 70s through the mid 80s.
    Yes, especially for romantic music. The prototypical romantic arrangement of the later Barry era has chords played on strings/brass, with arpeggios on top usually played on violas/celli/harp, and then the melody on top of all that.

    DarthDimi wrote: »
    But nothing compares to the excellence Barry will bring next: Bond flies over the waterfalls, Bond is lured to the pyramid and especially Flight Into Space. This isn't just "beautiful" music like we'd come to expect from Barry at this point, I'd say this is where he adds an emotional layer rarely seen in a Bond film before and; probably, a little odd in this particular film, but most welcome nevertheless. Flight Into Space in particular is a piece of art, a musical construction that comes in layers, that builds and speaks to us and almost makes us forget that we're essentially watching a 007 spy flick.
    I'd missed your post before but I can see we were thinking along the same lines. This score has Barry exploring in depth the emotional possibilities of the film, receiving inspiration from it while at the same time blessing it with his own inspiration and imagination.

    DarthDimi wrote: »
    So will we ever get to that dreamed-of release of a full MR score, digitally remastered or whatever? I'm not sure. People have told me it can't be done since the original recordings may not even have survived.
    Luckily, we got word a few months ago that they're safe and sound.

    DarthDimi wrote: »
    And what about someone else re-recording the score, that is if all of Barry's paperwork and notes can still be traced? Some say it'd never sound quite the same.
    Even without the paperwork, a re-recording or recreation can be done by ear. It's never going to sound exactly the same as the original, and some people reject those efforts on that basis. To each his own. I love listening to the music. It's beautiful, and even in "sketch" form, as a plain MIDI file, there's much to appreciate. In fact, the more basic sound of a MIDI file allows one as a listener to focus on the essentials of the arrangement and composition, beyond the specifics of how it was recorded and mixed.

    And what about directly prying the score off the film and digitally enhancing it? Well, I guess it's tough to plug up data holes, remove sound effects and re-align the volume.
    I think technology is definitely going to reach the point where it will be able to get around sound effects. It's only a matter of time. And it's going to be wonderful.

    Thrasos wrote: »
    Anyway, I was wondering, what happened with John Barry for him to make the Moonraker score so good with an evolved style and inspiration? The site filmmusicnotes suggests that the more symphonic style of MR was partly influenced by the success of John Williams’ score for Star Wars two years before--and we know what a big impression that score made at the time--just as the producers picked the film to take advantage of the sci-fi craze at the time. I also think the film locations and settings of the film may've helped to inspire some of the music, and I think especially of Bond Lured to Pyramid. With an expert like Barry, how could you not write such beautiful music as Bond sees the Blonde Beauty in her billowing and revealing gown or robe, suspecting she was the woman he saw at Venini Glass, walking through green jungle with waterfalls and a stone pyramid. I think he uses a flute to mimic bird sounds. Plus I think, during the space scenes especially, you had to go with symphonic music rather than something with a more modern beat like in The Living Daylights.
    I find this quote by Barry on the score of Raise the Titanic is illuminating in regards to his approach to scoring in general:

    The last thing in the world you must have been expecting was someone to do an entire new recording of RAISE THE TITANIC!
    Barry: That was kind of surprising. I did enjoy doing that score, although the movie didn’t get the audience they thought they were going to get. But there was some interesting stuff in that movie. Take the idea of that story, forget about the movie – just the idea of going down there and bringing this historic thing back up to the world, that alone is fascinating! You could write a musical suite on the emotions of that, without a movie. It’s an interesting, haunting theme of a past generation, of something that happened in the world, in the history books. The mind jumps all over those very fertile thoughts of what that would be like, before you actually get into the movie. So I think that’s the kind of weight, hopefully, you bring to the movie. Those are the thought processes that go behind the composition. There’s a point of view there that hopefully is intelligent and uplifting and has a certain mysterioso ambiance about it, about the history of the whole piece.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    mattjoes wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    So will we ever get to that dreamed-of release of a full MR score, digitally remastered or whatever? I'm not sure. People have told me it can't be done since the original recordings may not even have survived.
    Luckily, we got word a few months ago that they're safe and sound.
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    And what about someone else re-recording the score, that is if all of Barry's paperwork and notes can still be traced? Some say it'd never sound quite the same.
    Even without the paperwork, a re-recording or recreation can be done by ear. It's never going to sound exactly the same as the original, and some people reject those efforts on that basis. To each his own. I love listening to the music. It's beautiful, and even in "sketch" form, as a plain MIDI file, there's much to appreciate. In fact, the more basic sound of a MIDI file allows one as a listener to focus on the essentials of the arrangement and composition, beyond the specifics of how it was recorded and mixed.
    And what about directly prying the score off the film and digitally enhancing it? Well, I guess it's tough to plug up data holes, remove sound effects and re-align the volume.
    I think technology is definitely going to reach the point where it will be able to get around sound effects. It's only a matter of time. And it's going to be wonderful.

    I have good hopes now. Thank you, @mattjoes. :-)
  • Posts: 4,044
    @mattjoes The Venini Glass music somehow managed to be playful and sinister at the same time. A great cue.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Ladies and gentlemen, our bronze medalist:

    A VIEW TO A KILL
    Music composed by
    JOHN BARRY

    14627-back.jpg

    AVTAK claims 3rd place with one gold medal, two silvers, three bronzes, four 4th places and one 5th place. Seven more top 10's were realised.

    There was one bottom 5 to be noted, a 22nd spot, making AVTAK the highest placed entry that also received a bottom 5 spot.

    That's only a small sidenote though, since the original music for AVTAK reached an impressive total of 170 points.

    No awards or nominations that I found out about, another example of John Barry's amazing 007 work being shamefully overlooked (sorry to express a personal sentiment here, but I'm quite sure I'm far from alone on this one.)

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