Have you noticed any bloopers in NTTD?

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I agree with you @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7; IMO (and I love Spectre), the Plane Chase, Car Chase, London sequence at the end don't have the same impact for me as the Cuba Fight, CIA Safeboat Sequence, Staircase Gunfight Sequence.

    I liked everything about Blofeld's Lair in Spectre, honestly, except for the bit you mention about Bond getting out on Agent difficulty. It would have been slightly more polarizing I think, but it was a huge missed opportunity to not have Madeleine be the badass there and help Bond escape. It would have given some weight to both Blofeld's ability to incapacitate Bond, as well as Madeleine's "history of violence" backstory they were building.

    @NickTwentyTwo, I agree. I'm an SP fan too, but one of the changes I'd make is having Bond out of his element after his torture, to at least show him a little frazzled by the whole thing. So he tries to shoot, but is foggy and can't line up a shot, leaving him open to vulnerability. It's then that Madeleine has to kind of step in a bit, until Bond can increase his distance on targets and get them that way. I wouldn't want Madeleine pulling off insane long distance shots, but we've seen her capabilities with guns up close, which would work well. She's familiar with what it takes to survive in a world like Bond's, so it wouldn't be bizarre to see her laying down some lead to protect herself and him. That's part of what I enjoyed about NTTD: she actually has a lot of contextual impact in the story, and has moments where she too gets to defend her family. It definitely strengthens her character arc that was presented in SP, and shows why she's been able to survive for so long.
  • Not sure why there's such the indifference with the Norway action scenes. Bond doesn't have any gimmicks and uses his resources wisely.

    The part where they see the land rovers zoom past over the bridge and then u-turn to them is quite hair raising. There's also one point where one of the land rovers almost collides with the Toyota. That's got me to squirm every time, just thinking of how that was done for real.

    Then, there's the part in the woods that amps up the intensity. Sure, there's no cello case or plane fuselage for an escape, but it's not without its creativity nor does it feel done before, at least in a Bond film to me. The horror aspect is something that I very much appreciated in this film and that shot of when Safin finds Madeleine sticks in my brain. Well done creepy. Plus as far as creativity goes, Bond has to rotate through guns (no infinite ammo), uses the handgun wisely to draw attention away from Madeleine, and uses the tow cable quite effectively. Idk, I guess it's gripped me and I've not felt the desire to skip it in my rewatched.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Not sure why there's such the indifference with the Norway action scenes. Bond doesn't have any gimmicks and uses his resources wisely.

    The part where they see the land rovers zoom past over the bridge and then u-turn to them is quite hair raising. There's also one point where one of the land rovers almost collides with the Toyota. That's got me to squirm every time, just thinking of how that was done for real.

    Then, there's the part in the woods that amps up the intensity. Sure, there's no cello case or plane fuselage for an escape, but it's not without its creativity nor does it feel done before, at least in a Bond film to me. The horror aspect is something that I very much appreciated in this film and that shot of when Safin finds Madeleine sticks in my brain. Well done creepy. Plus as far as creativity goes, Bond has to rotate through guns (no infinite ammo), uses the handgun wisely to draw attention away from Madeleine, and uses the tow cable quite effectively. Idk, I guess it's gripped me and I've not felt the desire to skip it in my rewatched.

    @JamesStock, glad to see another person that appreciates them. I enjoy the sequences for that heightened drama, and a more "realistic" or grounded set of stakes. Bond really has to earn it to survive, and you feel the danger.

    I didn't enjoy the SP plane chase that people seem to think shows Bond's creativity or improvisation, because I don't think it was that smart. He smashes hard through a barn that could've really screwed him up, and he easily could've killed Madeleine if he didn't time it right, which gives him a very, very small window. That's part of why the sequence fails for me, and why everything in NTTD soars: Bond thinks intelligently, and doesn't open himself up to avoidable danger or put others in those positions. He is thrown into danger, or ambushed, and works his was through it the best he can. You really see his mind at work in this movie, which I loved. People don't talk about the Matera sequence enough, in my opinion, where he waits to unleash the full power of the DB5 when the men think he's given up. Just great stuff, and so Bond.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, I'd've preferred the planned snowmobile chase in SP rather than the plane chase.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Venutius, wasn't there supposed to be some skiing too, but Dan wasn't keen on it? I'd have loved that, as we could've gotten some great stunts FYEO style and it would be Bond very much in the action, as opposed to just driving/flying through it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    That would've been infinitely better than what we got. That whole plane sequence does absolutely nothing for me, I'm afraid. Gorgeous locale that's pretty wasted when it comes to the action. It all feels quite clunky and ludicrous to me.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    That would've been infinitely better than what we got. That whole plane sequence does absolutely nothing for me, I'm afraid. Gorgeous locale that's pretty wasted when it comes to the action. It all feels quite clunky and ludicrous to me.

    I agree, @Creasy47. I just don't think it was smart for Bond to just charge full speed into a gigantic barn. Too much left open to chance, of killing himself or Madeleine. That doesn't suit Craig Bond to me, as bold as he is.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    That would've been infinitely better than what we got. That whole plane sequence does absolutely nothing for me, I'm afraid. Gorgeous locale that's pretty wasted when it comes to the action. It all feels quite clunky and ludicrous to me.

    I agree, @Creasy47. I just don't think it was smart for Bond to just charge full speed into a gigantic barn. Too much left open to chance, of killing himself or Madeleine. That doesn't suit Craig Bond to me, as bold as he is.

    Indeed, especially considering how likely it was to be packed with wood or other materials that would've resulted in him crashing and Madeleine being taken away out of his grasp. The whole sequence seems geared toward offering one cool shot of the plane flying out of the barn that ultimately misses the mark for me.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yeh, it was just daft and, frankly, not worthy of CraigBond.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    That Skidoo / Dam stuff sounds really cool.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    Is there any reason to think that's true?

    Also, learning to ski -to the extent where you look amazing at it on camera- isn't that easy a thing to do.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    That Skidoo / Dam stuff sounds really cool.

    @NickTwentyTwo, that would've been the time where I'd have stepped in and said, "Well, Daniel, that's why we have stunt performers." The man can't do everything, and I just find it weird that a whole sequence was thrown out just based on his own viewpoint on it. Of course, he's helping to produce the films, so I guess he has more control in that respect. I just find it weird that that was the one time that no stunt people were suggested to pull the sequence of, then just having their faces covered by a CGI version of Dan's like was already done in SF beforehand. I don't get what made it so non-negotiable in SP, if that's even what went down.

    Who's to say the sequence would've even been great, though, to be fair. The only thing resembling a chase in SP is the Rome sequence that was also very uneventful and much less engaging, like the plane sequence, so just because it sounds great on paper doesn't mean it would've been anything spectacular on film. Guess we'll never know.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    That Skidoo / Dam stuff sounds really cool.

    Yeah they managed to have ski chases with the Bonds played by Lazenby,Moore, and Brosnan using different techniques so I don’t understand why Craig wasn’t up for it.

  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 735
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    That Skidoo / Dam stuff sounds really cool.

    Yeah they managed to have ski chases with the Bonds played by Lazenby,Moore, and Brosnan using different techniques so I don’t understand why Craig wasn’t up for it.
    Perhaps more is expected physically from our stars these days to convey a greater realism? Wasn't Craig carrying an injury through much of the Spectre filming? He just might not have been up to it physically ...

    Those are some wonderful scenes with Lazenby & Moore, some of my very favourites - but the obvious back projection stands out to contemporary audiences in a way that would have been less bothersome back in the day.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    How do we know this is true?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, I think he said something like 'Ah, but I can't ski' and they rethought it - he was probably forseeing the injuries, eh! According to an old Empire article, the sequence was 'originally due to end with a skidoo chase through the village and culminate with Bond and Hinx facing off at a dam'. I know we've seen similar things before, but damn that plane looked clunky sliding towards the barn.

    I'm a big fan of Daniel Craig, for sure, but this has always irked me. You're an actor. If you need to ski for a role, you don't say "eh, let's change the film so I don't have to ski", you learn to ski.

    That Skidoo / Dam stuff sounds really cool.

    Yeah they managed to have ski chases with the Bonds played by Lazenby,Moore, and Brosnan using different techniques so I don’t understand why Craig wasn’t up for it.

    There was an interview with Mendes where he essentially said "We can't have a stunt person doing the skiing, and then zoom in on Craig's face with a back projection like the Moore days". But yeah, they did a CGI face transplant for QOS and SF, so I'm not 100% sure why they wouldn't have gone this route again if they really wanted to.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I mean they could have just pulled Craig on a sled for closeups like they did Brosnan in TWINE's ski chase. :-??
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    that would've been the time where I'd have stepped in and said, "Well, Daniel, that's why we have stunt performers." The man can't do everything, and I just find it weird that a whole sequence was thrown out just based on his own viewpoint on it.
    Exactly. After all, I doubt that Craig flew the plane or crashed it into Hinx's car either, so... ;)
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 7,507
    mtm wrote: »
    How do we know this is true?

    Yes. Does anyone have a source for this?

    It seems to be how internet works these days. Someone posts a story with no verification. A discussion begins and in no time several people have reposted the information or had discussions about it. Before you know it, the story is considered true with no doubt.

    I am not saying I am sure this particular story is not true, I just find it curious how it can trigger such a discussion and bombastic verdicts when no source has been given.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    How do we know this is true?

    Yes. Does anyone have a source for this?

    It seems to be how internet works these days. Someone posts a story with no verification. A discussion begins and in no time several people have reposted the information or had discussions about it. Before you know it, the story is considered true with no doubt.

    I am not saying I am sure this particular story is not true, I just find it curious how it can trigger such a discussion and bombastic verdicts when no source has been given.

    Not sure what exactly this is referring to, but I did post above that there was an interview with Craig and Mendes where they address this. I can try to find it.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 7,507
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    How do we know this is true?

    Yes. Does anyone have a source for this?

    It seems to be how internet works these days. Someone posts a story with no verification. A discussion begins and in no time several people have reposted the information or had discussions about it. Before you know it, the story is considered true with no doubt.

    I am not saying I am sure this particular story is not true, I just find it curious how it can trigger such a discussion and bombastic verdicts when no source has been given.

    Not sure what exactly this is referring to, but I did post above that there was an interview with Craig and Mendes where they address this. I can try to find it.


    It is referring to the story that an elaborate ski chase was planned for Spectre and Craig saying no was the sole reason why it didn't happen. If this can be backed up by a credible source, great. If not, making a huge discussion about it seems rather daft to me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,546
    jobo wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    How do we know this is true?

    Yes. Does anyone have a source for this?

    It seems to be how internet works these days. Someone posts a story with no verification. A discussion begins and in no time several people have reposted the information or had discussions about it. Before you know it, the story is considered true with no doubt.

    I am not saying I am sure this particular story is not true, I just find it curious how it can trigger such a discussion and bombastic verdicts when no source has been given.

    Not sure what exactly this is referring to, but I did post above that there was an interview with Craig and Mendes where they address this. I can try to find it.


    It is referring to the story that an elaborate ski chase was planned for Spectre and Craig saying no was the sole reason why it didn't happen. If this can be backed up by a credible source, great. If not, making a huge discussion about it seems rather daft to me.

    Hopefully Sam Mendes is a credible source! As mentioned, if I can find the interview again, I'll post it.

    EDIT: Here you go.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,378
    Thanks for finding that. So it doesn't sound like a 'whole sequence was thrown out' because Craig complained, it sounds like they were planning it and they both wanted it to look as real as possible but Craig wouldn't have skied in it. What are we angry about?
    Brosnan looked dreadful being pulled along in that little cart in TWINE, I wouldn't have wanted that.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Who's angry?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Looks like it got beyond planning and was actually written into the script originally. Some Kind of Hero (p.660) says that Logan wrote a ski sequence that was 'much more elaborate, a little more OHMSS' - this was probably the sequence that Hannah Mingella of Sony referred to as 'parkour on skis' in that leaked email where she discussed the script. That was fairly early on (Felix was still in SP at that point!) and Mendes is quoted in SKOH as saying he wanted a snow scene but 'Daniel says to me "Well, I can't ski." It 'later developed into a skidoo chase' and then the plane chase. It's a shame - of the three options, I'd actually say they went with the worst one!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Agreed. Would have liked to have seen Felix in SP too!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 3,152
    Me too. Apparently, Felix was helping Bond against a 'CIA black ops traitor' called Charlotte, with whom Bond had been undercover as husband and wife. Charlotte was also part of the ski chase, which resulted in Bond giving her 'an iconic facial wound'!
    Looking through the leaked emails about SP again for the first time in years, a few other things jump out. There's mention of an 'eyeball camera' and Tabitha Schick of MGM said 'We love the reveal that Madeline killed a man when she was 12 and we wonder if we can make this a bigger part of her character?' Well, it took them a while, but they got there in the end, eh!
    Schick also had an idea that wasn't pursued: 'Can we consider that Madeline turned into a jaded and dark person after this incident and she's been with Blofeld essentially ever since? Further to this, can we consider that when she meets Bond, she pretends to be the shrinking dove, and she takes Bond to Blofeld on the pretense of wanting to avenge her father, but in a twist, she reveals her backstory and that she's been in league with Blofeld the whole time?' ! So, an actual Daughter of SPECTRE. Imagine the twist if Bond had regained consciousness in Blofeld's torture chair and Madeleine had then done the torturing! Cripes.
    Schick also suggested that 'Bond will have the opportunity to redeem himself by saving her in the way he could never save Vesper' - that's another thing they finally got around to a few years down the line, eh!
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Very interesting, above - thanks!
  • I also recall something in about a CIA agent named Charlotte and a black Blofeld. Venutius' post makes me wonder how many ideas come from outside the core team of the producers, script writers, and director. And also, how many abandoned ideas from the Craig era will eventually make their way into future films?
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