James Bond books edited to remove racist references

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Comments

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    I don't think there's any evidence to suggest digital media already purchased will be amended in any way.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that myself. According to the Times it does seem to be happening with Roald Dahl's books:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roald-dahl-collection-books-changes-text-puffin-uk-2023-rm2622vl0

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/23/03/04/0521244/roald-dahl-ebooks-reportedly-censored-remotely
  • Posts: 12,473
    Physical media forever.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Physical media forever.

    I'm old fashioned enough to never consider buying anything else but physical copies of things. I know that the youth of today will mostly disagree. I already feel old.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Physical media forever.

    I'm old fashioned enough to never consider buying anything else but physical copies of things. I know that the youth of today will mostly disagree. I already feel old.

    I’m young, and I don’t care. I have a hard time relating to other people my age in almost every other way anyway. I just do what I like and leave everything else to burn ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2023 Posts: 18,281
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Physical media forever.

    I'm old fashioned enough to never consider buying anything else but physical copies of things. I know that the youth of today will mostly disagree. I already feel old.

    I’m young, and I don’t care. I have a hard time relating to other people my age in almost every other way anyway. I just do what I like and leave everything else to burn ;)

    Well I'm still under 40 (though getting ever closer) but most of the young people today make me feel old before my time. I suppose it's been much the same complaint about the young since the days of Ancient Rome though and somehow we're still here. :)
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't think there's any evidence to suggest digital media already purchased will be amended in any way.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that myself. According to the Times it does seem to be happening with Roald Dahl's books:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roald-dahl-collection-books-changes-text-puffin-uk-2023-rm2622vl0

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/23/03/04/0521244/roald-dahl-ebooks-reportedly-censored-remotely

    Right, this is what I meant.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    Now is a good time to point out that all of Fleming's books (except TB) can be downloaded from Project Gutenberg Canada, since they're in public domain over there. If only the rest of the world was as enlightened as the Canucks.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I don't think there's any evidence to suggest digital media already purchased will be amended in any way.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that myself. According to the Times it does seem to be happening with Roald Dahl's books:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roald-dahl-collection-books-changes-text-puffin-uk-2023-rm2622vl0

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/23/03/04/0521244/roald-dahl-ebooks-reportedly-censored-remotely

    Fair enough! That sucks, and yes, physical media forever!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Revelator wrote: »
    Now is a good time to point out that all of Fleming's books (except TB) can be downloaded from Project Gutenberg Canada, since they're in public domain over there. If only the rest of the world was as enlightened as the Canucks.

    Why is TB excluded? Has it something to do with the McClory/Whittingham litigation I wonder?
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Why is TB excluded? Has it something to do with the McClory/Whittingham litigation I wonder?

    That's my guess as well. Presumably McClory and Whittingham had some rights to the book that meant authorship wasn't assigned solely to Fleming on a legal basis. On the other hand, TB is available at Faded Page, which claims the book is in public domain in Canada, so who knows. Maybe we can find a Canadian lawyer to investigate, pro bono.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Revelator wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Why is TB excluded? Has it something to do with the McClory/Whittingham litigation I wonder?

    That's my guess as well. Presumably McClory and Whittingham had some rights to the book that meant authorship wasn't assigned solely to Fleming on a legal basis. On the other hand, TB is available at Faded Page, which claims the book is in public domain in Canada, so who knows. Maybe we can find a Canadian lawyer to investigate, pro bono.

    Yes, perhaps it has something to do with McClory and Whittingham being credited as co-authors and thus extending the copyright as they died in 1972 and 2006 respectively and so they are not dead long enough for the copyright in the work to have run out. Of course Canadian law may well be different but I seem to remember from Intellectual Property lectures that some of these things are governed by international treaties. It's not really my area of expertise though.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Did I miss Octopussy and TLD on there?
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    Did I miss Octopussy and TLD on there?

    Good catch. Perhaps OP isn't there because no one volunteered to upload it. But there's no reason why it wouldn't be in Canadian public domain. And it's on Faded Page.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Actual books for me, every time.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited March 2023 Posts: 685
    Always go for real books, or sometimes audio books (mainly to avoid travel sickness). It's good to get away from a screen.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Red_Snow wrote: »

    Yes, for what? I mean, it would be a redundancy.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »

    Yes, for what? I mean, it would be a redundancy.

    And any publishers who do print edited versions of texts may find themselves getting a redundancy package as no reader in their right mind should buy them.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I was in a bit of a hurry to get LALD from them out of fear they may have opted to sell an edited version of it.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Indeed, Dragonpol. I can't even work out what the publishers themselves think the benefit is of having censored editions.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited March 2023 Posts: 1,649
    Had a conversation with a work colleague. When it came to them reading the books, they were mad at the edits. When I asked which one they'd hand their (older) children, they admitted it wouldn't be the one with n-word heaven in it. So I think for some parents, this may matter.

    As long as both versions are published I'll be fine.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Yeah, what’s the harm in having both, really. As long as it’s clear which version you’re getting when you buy.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Hooray for Folio editions I say.

    Yea, a publisher with integrity who doesn't spoon-feed their readers.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I respect Folio so much for this.
    I am never touching cleaned-up versions of the Fleming books. Fleming's Bond wasn't meant to be clean.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 1,078
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I respect Folio so much for this.

    Completely. Books for people that love books.

    I was only going to buy CR a few years ago, as a special treat. Now I have these, all true to the text of the UK first editions. . .

    IMG-9121.jpg
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I am never touching cleaned-up versions of the Fleming books. Fleming's Bond wasn't meant to be clean.

    I bought the Penguin Vintage Classic Hardback of the US edit of LALD, because it was at least Fleming approved back in the 50's, and has historic interest. But as for the 2023 censored versions... as one great spy once said, "Balls to you ... and balls again!"

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Revelator wrote: »
    The link brings up lots of images of the Berkley/Charter paperbacks. Are these what you were trying to post?

    fleming%2B80s%2B1.jpg

    fleming%2B80s%2B2.jpg

    fleming%2B80s%2B3.jpg

    fleming%2B80s%2B4.jpg

    fleming%2B80s%2B5.jpg

    Source.

    If these were what you had in mind, I am in complete agreement with you. Perhaps it's because they're the first Flemings I bought, but these covers are my favorites. An eye-catching, elegant design that's consistent throughout the series, and the art honors Fleming's idea of Bond as "the man who was only a silhouette." My only regret is that the rights to OHMSS, YOLT, TMWTGG, and OP weren't available, but we can tell what they would have looked like from Charter's editions of the first few Gardner Bonds:

    gardnerus1set.jpg

    +1

    I also love these, as they were the first ones I bought.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I respect Folio so much for this.

    Completely. Books for people that love books.

    I was only going to buy CR a few years ago, as a special treat. Now I have these, all true to the text of the UK first editions. . .

    IMG-9121.jpg
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I am never touching cleaned-up versions of the Fleming books. Fleming's Bond wasn't meant to be clean.

    I bought the Penguin Vintage Classic Hardback of the US edit of LALD, because it was at least Fleming approved back in the 50's, and has historic interest. But as for the 2023 censored versions... as one great spy once said, "Balls to you ... and balls again!"

    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 2,918
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Had a conversation with a work colleague. When it came to them reading the books, they were mad at the edits. When I asked which one they'd hand their (older) children, they admitted it wouldn't be the one with n-word heaven in it. So I think for some parents, this may matter.

    As long as both versions are published I'll be fine.

    I don't think children should (or would) be reading Fleming in the first place. Most of the material (and prose) would probably go above their heads. I think kids interested in the Bond films are more likely to move on to Bond video games than half-century-old Bond novels. Children's editions of the books have been tried and the experiment never came off, because the books were written for adults. The literary brand is not for all ages.

    Adolescents might start reading the books, but by then they should be old enough to understand the books were written in a very different time and have much different racial attitudes. I don't think they're going to be corrupted by the books, since Fleming's racism is of the blatant kind that's now unacceptable across society. Adding introductions and contextual material would have been a much better and more educational choice than IFP's self-censorship (which still leaves plenty of very problematic material).

    I fear that if IFP decided to also publish the original versions, it wouldn't make them available in bookstores but rather sell them directly as deluxe, pricey, hardcover editions meant solely for collectors. That doesn't sit right with me.
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 1,078
    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?

    The 2019 Folio edition is true to the UK version, including the (quite harmless) Carl Van Vechten chapter title nod.
    I think they're all true to the UK firsts, I've read them all except the current FYEO, and couldn't find any difference.

    Niggerheaven.jpg
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    For some reason I thought these new Fleming editions were the same as the Fleming-approved US edits?

    The 2019 Folio edition is true to the UK version, including the (quite harmless) Carl Van Vechten chapter title nod.
    I think they're all true to the UK firsts, I've read them all except the current FYEO, and couldn't find any difference.

    Niggerheaven.jpg

    My U.S. Berkley 80's edition has chapter 5 as 'Seventh Avenue' and I'm more than okay with that since the author himself okayed it.
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