Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    @bondjames I think I'll watch DN, FRWL and OHMSS over the coming days. Funnily enough I've enjoyed the PTS on QoS, SF and SP but just cannot get on with the films themselves.

    The_Donald I do my own spy thriller thing, so can tread water quite happily until the Bond I know and love returns. Here's an excerpt from a recent reader review:

    "It does have deep echoes of James Bond in the writing, especially in the Female names, but I do not consider that a down side in any sense. And having read a few James Bond books I can say that the overall story flows better here."

    My hero is nothing like Bond, but I owe my passion for story writing to the Fleming novels.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 2017 Posts: 7,112
    I love the QOS PTS, I think it's the best car chase of the Craig era.

    I particularly like the music when the camera moves over the lake.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The_Donald wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Controversial I know, and I have no intention of causing offence, but I'm saddened to say I have no interest in the forthcoming Bond film. IMHO although CR was a good (yet overlong) movie, the franchise has deteriorated in terms of the quality of its writing since then.
    I can understand your point of view and sympathize. Is there any franchise out there which can tide you over until Bond regains your trust? It would be terrible not to have something to fall back on at least.

    Lol the guy's an author. I think he can cope without Bond for a while.
    I hope so. Some members here endured near trauma during Brozza's run, if we are to believe their comments.

    I'm one of those fans you're talking about.
    Was so sure Brossa was going to continue in the role after the despicable DAD that i was seriously giving up on the franchise!

    Same here. Thought the degeneration was irreversible.
    Gentlemen, my deepest condolences. I almost joined you in despair after enduring TWINE in the theatre, so I can relate partially.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @stag, all of the Craig films post-CR have been somewhat unconventional, personal and artsy. I just viewed FRWL last night and it was so refreshing to see a clean, crisp & intriguing mystery. One day they will get back to making those I'm sure.

    Oh frwl is so perfect. If only they could make a bond film half as good
    It really is. Connery is just in a different league in that film. I'm tempted to watch DN soon as well just to see the legendary intro scene. Makes you realize how good they once were.

    I mean, if we look at three films, a trilogy so to speak. Dr. No, Frwl, and Goldfinger
    The best set of three films in film history?
    I think so
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The_Donald wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Controversial I know, and I have no intention of causing offence, but I'm saddened to say I have no interest in the forthcoming Bond film. IMHO although CR was a good (yet overlong) movie, the franchise has deteriorated in terms of the quality of its writing since then.
    I can understand your point of view and sympathize. Is there any franchise out there which can tide you over until Bond regains your trust? It would be terrible not to have something to fall back on at least.

    Lol the guy's an author. I think he can cope without Bond for a while.
    I hope so. Some members here endured near trauma during Brozza's run, if we are to believe their comments.

    I'm one of those fans you're talking about.
    Was so sure Brossa was going to continue in the role after the despicable DAD that i was seriously giving up on the franchise!

    Same here. Thought the degeneration was irreversible.
    Gentlemen, my deepest condolences. I almost joined you in despair after enduring TWINE in the theatre, so I can relate partially.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @stag, all of the Craig films post-CR have been somewhat unconventional, personal and artsy. I just viewed FRWL last night and it was so refreshing to see a clean, crisp & intriguing mystery. One day they will get back to making those I'm sure.

    Oh frwl is so perfect. If only they could make a bond film half as good
    It really is. Connery is just in a different league in that film. I'm tempted to watch DN soon as well just to see the legendary intro scene. Makes you realize how good they once were.

    I mean, if we look at three films, a trilogy so to speak. Dr. No, Frwl, and Goldfinger
    The best set of three films in film history?
    I think so
    I'm not sure I'd go that far, but they are outstanding and trend setting (even though I'm not a huge fan of GF, I must acknowledge its iconic impact).

    In the spy thriller genre though, very possibly.
  • Posts: 12,466
    DN, FRWL, and GF is an incredible run of Bond films. All in my Top 10. Both TB and YOLT also fit into my Top 15 overall. DAF is the only EON Connery film that falls into lower territory for me, which still has things about it I enjoy.
  • Posts: 684
    I mean, if we look at three films, a trilogy so to speak. Dr. No, Frwl, and Goldfinger
    The best set of three films in film history?
    I think so
    I've just stumbled upon a probably controversial opinion of my own.

    I think the strongest set of three consecutive films in Bond are GF, TB, YOLT or (on par) TB, YOLT, OHMSS.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Strog wrote: »
    I mean, if we look at three films, a trilogy so to speak. Dr. No, Frwl, and Goldfinger
    The best set of three films in film history?
    I think so
    I've just stumbled upon a probably controversial opinion of my own.

    I think the strongest set of three consecutive films in Bond are GF, TB, YOLT or (on par) TB, YOLT, OHMSS.

    Besides the first three, the only three okay- good bond films are
    TLD
    LTK
    GE
    And they are no where near as good as the first three

    In regards to what you said, I dislike thunderball, and think YOLT is okay. So i dunno about that
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,112
    For me it's TLD, LTK and GE. All three in my top 5.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 684
    The trouble is, I'd have all the 60s Bonds in my top tier, but I like FRWL least of them, and it sits right in the middle of the original three.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    For me it's TLD, LTK and GE. All three in my top 5.
    Besides the original three, this (or the first three Craig films) is the only other option I could see being popular.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 2017 Posts: 7,112
    @Strog I agree, though fans of TB, including myself, might consider FRWL-GF-TB.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    My enthusiasm for the earlier Bond films ebbs and flows. For example, having always liked TLD, watching it the other week I found myself underwhelmed. As a counterbalance, I was never a big fan of TB, but now find myself enjoying it more with each watch. Many moons ago I could not stand OHMSS and would actively avoid watching it. For the past few years it has been my absolute favourite.
    Overall I'm unsure if this is a good thing or not - or indeed why it happens in the first place. A suppose the plus point is that I find myself enjoying with certain films again and so watching them with a renewed vigour.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    I might've said this already, but I think my relative liking for AVTAK seems pretty controversial. Obviously here on a Bond forum we're more tolerant of all the movies and I've seen a few decently high rankings for Moore's last flick, but generally it's pretty much universally panned and received an appalling 35% on RT (I would also bring up OP's abysmal 42%, but I think we're generally much more favourable towards it on here). I'm not saying it's one of the series' best but it deserves better than the dismal ratings it tends to get.

    While Moore's age and Tanya Roberts are regrettable, I think Moore does a fine job playing Bond in his usual manner (which automatically makes it good) and the movie easily compensates for Stacey with the twin villains in Christopher Walken and Grace Jones, Duran Duran's theme song and one of Barry's finest compositions. Admittedly, most of the film's action doesn't feel fresh in the slightest, and there's a lot of stuntwork for the sake of it. Still, I think few can deny the Golden Gate finale is one of the series' best. I still think it's better than TWMTGG at the very least (by far the most inconsistent film of the franchise) and probably MR (which somehow manages to beat AVTAK in being the most outrageous Bond movie).

  • Posts: 19,339
    I might've said this already, but I think my relative liking for AVTAK seems pretty controversial. Obviously here on a Bond forum we're more tolerant of all the movies and I've seen a few decently high rankings for Moore's last flick, but generally it's pretty much universally panned and received an appalling 35% on RT (I would also bring up OP's abysmal 42%, but I think we're generally much more favourable towards it on here). I'm not saying it's one of the series' best but it deserves better than the dismal ratings it tends to get.

    While Moore's age and Tanya Roberts are regrettable, I think Moore does a fine job playing Bond in his usual manner (which automatically makes it good) and the movie easily compensates for Stacey with the twin villains in Christopher Walken and Grace Jones, Duran Duran's theme song and one of Barry's finest compositions. Admittedly, most of the film's action doesn't feel fresh in the slightest, and there's a lot of stuntwork for the sake of it. Still, I think few can deny the Golden Gate finale is one of the series' best. I still think it's better than TWMTGG at the very least (by far the most inconsistent film of the franchise) and probably MR (which somehow manages to beat AVTAK in being the most outrageous Bond movie).

    I currently have AVTAK at #16 in my rankings,which is pretty high,and it's one place at the moment above LALD ,and higher than TMWTGG,FYEO & MR.

    So I like it !

  • Posts: 12,466
    I might've said this already, but I think my relative liking for AVTAK seems pretty controversial. Obviously here on a Bond forum we're more tolerant of all the movies and I've seen a few decently high rankings for Moore's last flick, but generally it's pretty much universally panned and received an appalling 35% on RT (I would also bring up OP's abysmal 42%, but I think we're generally much more favourable towards it on here). I'm not saying it's one of the series' best but it deserves better than the dismal ratings it tends to get.

    While Moore's age and Tanya Roberts are regrettable, I think Moore does a fine job playing Bond in his usual manner (which automatically makes it good) and the movie easily compensates for Stacey with the twin villains in Christopher Walken and Grace Jones, Duran Duran's theme song and one of Barry's finest compositions. Admittedly, most of the film's action doesn't feel fresh in the slightest, and there's a lot of stuntwork for the sake of it. Still, I think few can deny the Golden Gate finale is one of the series' best. I still think it's better than TWMTGG at the very least (by far the most inconsistent film of the franchise) and probably MR (which somehow manages to beat AVTAK in being the most outrageous Bond movie).

    Before SP, I routinely ranked AVTAK in my last position. Now it is #18, ahead of TMWTGG and MR and just behind OP. It still has its fair share of issues, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't fun! It has very much improved for me, and IMO is a superior exit to Connery's DAF and Brosnan's DAD.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 2017 Posts: 7,112
    Funnily enough Moore's most disliked entries, TMWTTG, MR and AVTAK, are probably my favourite of his. I like the characters in these films more memorable than in his other outings, though there are exceptions.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,984
    @FoxRox Agreed. DAF and DAD require a hell of a lot more suspension of disbelief to sit through than AVTAK. And they lack the combination of awesome villains and music that AVTAK has.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 12,466
    @FoxRox Agreed. DAF and DAD require a hell of a lot more suspension of disbelief to sit through than AVTAK. And the lack the combination of awesome villains and music that AVTAK has.

    Pretty much; Zorin alone makes AVTAK better. Stacey is the one big drawback IMO - my least favorite Bond girl. Poor DAD and DAD are 22 and 23 on my list now; I still like things about them, but they definitely are among my least favorite Bonds.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Personally, AVTAK is better than TMWTGG, MR and FYEO, purely because of its entertainment factor. It's not a great Bond film by any means, but I certainly enjoy it and that's what matters most in the end.
  • Posts: 15,114
    I find AVTAK to be superior to MR as with all its flaws it's still a proper spy thriller and does not go too far into scifi. But just for Christopher Lee and Maud Adams and their chemistry with Moore I find TMTFG far superior.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I like TMWTGG the best out of the three because of its quirkiness and atmospheric on-location photography. It has the same texture to it as the early Connery films for me. Second would be MR, due to the wonderful cinematography, the outlandish premise, and the light tone. Third by some distance would be AVTAK.

    @ForYourEyesOnly I don't disagree with much of what you said about Moore's last, but I just think he's a bit too old to be credible in the part in this film, and that always impacts my perception of it. Also as you said, the action is quite stale and by the numbers, and that's regrettable. The barn fight and the fire truck chase as an example are almost laughable imho. Finally, I think the locations are poorly utilized and this undermines the film. I've never seen San Francisco used so poorly in a major production before. It has a nondescript and pedestrian visual flavour to it too in my view, especially in comparison to the other two films. I agree that Moore gives a very good performance though. Darker than in OP.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Sorry, not getting the AVTAK love fest. Entertaining? I find from when Bond arrives in San Francisco to be the most boring stretch in a Bond film whenever Walken isn't on screen, especially since we're forced to deal with Roberts and Chuck Lee, possibly the least interesting supporting character in a Bond film.

    Moore isn't on his game in this one the way he was in OP. I can't shake the worn-out older agent feel and that wasn't just after he left the role. It happened when I saw it the second day of the original release.

    OP had the right energy and feel and AVTAK is one too far. The younger, more energetic villains and title tune deserved to be complemented by a fresh leading man. A critic at the time summed it up best, saying it was like the producers said "Come on guys, time to make another Bond film" and it sure feels like it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The_Donald wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Controversial I know, and I have no intention of causing offence, but I'm saddened to say I have no interest in the forthcoming Bond film. IMHO although CR was a good (yet overlong) movie, the franchise has deteriorated in terms of the quality of its writing since then.
    I can understand your point of view and sympathize. Is there any franchise out there which can tide you over until Bond regains your trust? It would be terrible not to have something to fall back on at least.

    Lol the guy's an author. I think he can cope without Bond for a while.
    I hope so. Some members here endured near trauma during Brozza's run, if we are to believe their comments.

    I'm one of those fans you're talking about.
    Was so sure Brossa was going to continue in the role after the despicable DAD that i was seriously giving up on the franchise!

    Same here. Thought the degeneration was irreversible.
    Gentlemen, my deepest condolences. I almost joined you in despair after enduring TWINE in the theatre, so I can relate partially.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @stag, all of the Craig films post-CR have been somewhat unconventional, personal and artsy. I just viewed FRWL last night and it was so refreshing to see a clean, crisp & intriguing mystery. One day they will get back to making those I'm sure.

    Oh frwl is so perfect. If only they could make a bond film half as good
    It really is. Connery is just in a different league in that film. I'm tempted to watch DN soon as well just to see the legendary intro scene. Makes you realize how good they once were.

    I mean, if we look at three films, a trilogy so to speak. Dr. No, Frwl, and Goldfinger
    The best set of three films in film history?
    I think so

    In Bond history for sure.
  • Posts: 16,153
    The first three Bonds probably will never leave my top 5.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Christopher Walken elevates A View to a Kill so much. I love this guy, he's like an event unto himself.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Now imagine if we got David Bowie like Cubby wanted.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Or Sting,the second choice before Walken !!!!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I don't think I would trade him for Walken, but I wish he had played the villain at some point. A magnetic presence. I don't understand his explanation for not taking the role... not wanting to "spend five months watching my stunt double fall off cliffs." Not the sort of thing the main Bond villain usually does.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Wouldn't change Walken for the world. Bowie would have been Bowie. Walken 'is' Zorin.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Agreed.
  • Posts: 19,339
    RC7 wrote: »
    Wouldn't change Walken for the world. Bowie would have been Bowie. Walken 'is' Zorin.

    Cant add anything to that...if he was 3rd choice then thank God we got him ,he HAS to be in the Bond legacy somewhere,and what a villain,one of the very very best.
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