Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    MooreFun wrote: »
    I prefer my Bond escapist, so the Lotus and the 750iL were fun to see. Likewise, I enjoy the 2CV chase.
    +1
  • Posts: 15,125
    MooreFun wrote: »
    I prefer my Bond escapist, so the Lotus and the 750iL were fun to see. Likewise, I enjoy the 2CV chase.
    +1

    +2

    And on a side note why can't they bring back the briefcase?
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    I prefer my Bond escapist, so the Lotus and the 750iL were fun to see. Likewise, I enjoy the 2CV chase.
    +1

    +2

    And on a side note why can't they bring back the briefcase?

    +3

    I have a feeling FRWL is regrettably not so well known among casual fans. They probably wouldn't get the reference? I don't know...

    By far my favorite gadget in the series. I'd buy that one!
  • Posts: 15,125
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MooreFun wrote: »
    I prefer my Bond escapist, so the Lotus and the 750iL were fun to see. Likewise, I enjoy the 2CV chase.
    +1

    +2

    And on a side note why can't they bring back the briefcase?

    +3

    I have a feeling FRWL is regrettably not so well known among casual fans. They probably wouldn't get the reference? I don't know...

    By far my favorite gadget in the series. I'd buy that one!

    That's probably the reason. It is the best and most believable gadget imo. And I still think they should bring it back in an updated version.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    My favourite Bond gadget of all time has to be the Omega Seamaster 300M Diver that is a laser cutter. It paved the way for my obsession with Bond's watches, particularly the aforementioned model and the gorgeous craft that is the Rolex Submariner.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I think the skycam in YOLT was neat. Japan had drones half a century ago.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'd prefer no gadgets, car or otherwise, beyond the FRWL briefcase, in the entire series.

    Speaking the Gospel
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    MooreFun wrote: »
    The car in CR was left hand drive. The car in Skyfall is right hand drive. Either we’re meant to believe Bond paid for a very expensive conversion, it’s a different car entirely, or Eon couldn’t be bothered to get the details right
    So obviously an homage to Diamond Are Forever.

    I'd prefer no gadgets, car or otherwise, beyond the FRWL briefcase, in the entire series.
    Oh, c'mon. Let Bond be Bond. With gadgets.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Oh, c'mon. Let Bond be Bond. With gadgets.

    Bond was Bond before the crazy gadgets.

    In this day and age, where I can see my entire property on my phone, James Bond doesn't need anything outlandish. I'd much rather see a hi-tech/light-weight sniper rifle, than I would an exploding watch.

    The character is at his best when he relies on his wit, not some deus ex machina.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    Before, during and after.

    There's always the opportunity for smart, thrilling, humorous use of gadgets. Some of the best moments are when they're available and fail.

    Including out gadgets at this point would be a mistake.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Before, during and after.

    There's always the opportunity for smart, thrilling, humorous use of gadgets. Some of the best moments are when they're available and fail.

    Including out gadgets at this point would be a mistake.

    I find gadgets will just take me out of the film if they're not based in some kind of realism-- at this point of the films. Just me, but I hated the exploding watch, and a malfunctioning Aston.

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    Of course, we all want the content used well.

    I just don't see setting in place a lot of strictures in advance of the film proper. And I was thinking more the magnetic function of Bond Moore's watch at the alligator farm. Or the delayed fuse on the device that got Fatima Blush.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I love gadgets in the Bond films. There is an inherent appeal to seeing a slick-looking, clever piece of gadgetry being put to perfect use at the right time. And gadgets do contribute to creating the larger-than-life feeling on the edge of plausibility that has been a tradition of the Bond films.

    True, the gadgets do Bond's work for him to some extent, but they are just a little something to spice things up and not the "main course." When ideally integrated into a scene, they won't replace Bond's own smarts and skills. Whether they only provide a brief advantage over his enemies or help him in a larger capacity, hopefully Bond's resourcefulness in employing will still come across. I'd say that aspect has generally been handled well, even in the more gadget-heavy films. Moonraker is the exception, but it gets away with it by virtue of sheer excess. It works and quite well, but not every Bond film could be like that.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    I agree, @mattjoes, and the filmmakers had it straight from the start: their formula to introduce items up front, gadgets and otherwise, then let the suspense build for the audience over how they would be employed or worked out in the story.

    Gadgets are real world spycraft, after all. Fleming had those ideas himself during World War II.

    39a999b9d1f7706c9553b383d95588dd.jpg
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    Not Goldfinger.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited January 2019 Posts: 7,021
    Just on the subject of gadgets, yes, the Goldfinger car is the first thing that comes to mind as working well, and in fact all other cars with gadgets fit the bill. They are, after all, like the briefcase from FRWL. One can imagine these things being standard issue for all agents (in the fantasy that is Bond, that is). Feasibility aside, I can also see that happening with an exploding watch, the keyring, the cellphone... A cigarette that fires a projectile is also plausible and useful. There are also story and location-related reasons for issuing Bond with Little Nellie or the rebreather.

    Some things that are a little too convenient might be the glass-breaking ring, the fake fingerprint (though it is a clever idea)... the watch with a saw in it also seems too convenient for Bond to be wearing just when he needs to escape, but one can imagine it potentially having been conceived as a weapon for a fistfight, and the electromagnet is explained away in the film quite sensibly (and satisfyingly, it is not used in the exact way one would imagine it would've been used, which relates to what @RichardTheBruce pointed out). Same with the acid pen.

    I like it when Bond uses gadgets in different ways. DAD is DAD, but Bond using the ejector seat to flip the car is a good moment.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,815
    What you're referring to in Spectre represents military experience on the rifle range, plain and simple to anyone who's been there. Training kicking in. Very familiar real world stuff.

    Fleming was all over plotting schemes to disrupt the enemy. To me gadgets fit right in line with that.

    I've got a reel lawn mower myself.

    948a9c8d6f314f5a96eb3f29faaade12.jpg
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Especially after being tortured. That was a joke and completely took me out of the movie. It's like Bond was operating using the god mode cheat code on the very easy setting of a rudimentary shoot em up game.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Honest Trailers said it best.
    "It's like playing GoldenEye on Agent (easy) mode." =))
  • Posts: 15,125
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Aside from the knives in the briefcase, I can’t recall Fleming giving Bond any other gadgets (aside from trackers and normal stuff like that). Anymore? A couple of villains had disguised firearms.

    He gave one to M in TMWTGG. And some to SMERSH (the shoe with the dart).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Murdock wrote: »
    Honest Trailers said it best.
    "It's like playing GoldenEye on Agent (easy) mode." =))

    Good one. Easy mode could be a regular term concerning certain Bond films.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But the vast majority of them have been plain stupid or just too in synch with the problem du jour to be worth paying attention. Bond uncoiling the explosive to escape the rocket's exhaust in the film MR compared to what he and Gala had to go through to get away from a similar situation in the novel? I can't think of one time when I thought "Decent! A gadget!" Hate the damned things.

    Absolutely agree with this. I love the tension in MR the novel. In the film, there's no tension for me. Just take out your handy gadget and away we go (into outer spaceeee)... I just don't like gadgets. Real spy-wear is different than the excess the films started to bring in (and I think have no place in the DC era, at all).
  • Posts: 9,848
    Roger Moore was far more then just the “funny” Bond his films at times were serious brutal and even dark.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Talking of gadgets the medic pack in CR was a great one: it was simple, useful and believable.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    @Risico007 Agree completely on Sir Rog. He displayed the entire range during his tenure. He certainly wasn't smiling or joking in FYEO or AVTAK.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    The speed and adrenaline with which Bond escapes from Blofeld's HQ in Spectre could be explained away as training kicking in, but his high level of markmanship and efficiency still feels off since only moments ago Bond had a drill inside his head. One would've expected him to show some sign of weakness during that shootout --a lack of balance, a crippling headache, failing eyesight, or something.

    Nevertheless, I've come to really enjoy the moment in spite of all that, because there is something very satisfying about seeing Bond turn the tables on the bad guys, and go from being trapped and near-helpless to shooting the crap out of them like a boss. Bond and Madeleine walking at a cool pace toward the gate of the complex, holding hands and with Bond blowing the goons away with ruthless efficiency. It's ridiculous, but fun! That contrast works very well for me, even if they pushed things too far in terms of believability. (They could've toned down the torture to make the escape a bit more believable, and saved the drill for another film, or made the escape more difficult, and saved the kickass Bond escape for another time).

    And that's one of Thomas Newman's best cues for the Bond films in my opinion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2019 Posts: 23,883
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just on the subject of gadgets, yes, the Goldfinger car is the first thing that comes to mind as working well, and in fact all other cars with gadgets fit the bill. They are, after all, like the briefcase from FRWL. One can imagine these things being standard issue for all agents (in the fantasy that is Bond, that is). Feasibility aside, I can also see that happening with an exploding watch, the keyring, the cellphone... A cigarette that fires a projectile is also plausible and useful. There are also story and location-related reasons for issuing Bond with Little Nellie or the rebreather.

    Some things that are a little too convenient might be the glass-breaking ring, the fake fingerprint (though it is a clever idea)... the watch with a saw in it also seems too convenient for Bond to be wearing just when he needs to escape, but one can imagine it potentially having been conceived as a weapon for a fistfight, and the electromagnet is explained away in the film quite sensibly (and satisfyingly, it is not used in the exact way one would imagine it would've been used, which relates to what @RichardTheBruce pointed out). Same with the acid pen.

    I like it when Bond uses gadgets in different ways. DAD is DAD, but Bond using the ejector seat to flip the car is a good moment.
    I'm with you on this. Generally I'm not in favour of gadgets because they can become a crutch (both literally and narratively). There is a tendency for them to become the be all and end all of a scene or a comic moment, as was often the case in MR. A convenient mechanism for the writers to close out a set piece before moving onto something else.

    However, I'm not entirely against them. Just as with 'formula', gadgets can be very effective and impressive. Whether we like it or not, they are an intrinsic part of movie Bond expectations, and a decade of Craig's more grounded portrayal hasn't changed that. As with formula, it's all a matter of how it's done and how it's used. If used creatively and in a manner organic to the plot, or in an unfamiliar way which elevates tension, then I'm all for it. I expect James Bond to have something cutting edge. When I go back to the old films, it makes sense that he (and the CIA for that matter) would have some advanced tool which could come in handy in tight spots. It doesn't have to be overly complex, but if it's smartly conceptualized, it can resonate.

    I'm with you on the DAD ejector flip as an example of an interesting use of a familiar gadget. That was neat and a highlight of that chase. The rocket projectiles were too much however and a case of overkill (trying to 'one-up' GF).

    I've always liked the Rolex Submariner in LALD. We see the fancy magnet first in the post titles sequence. Yes, there's humour in it's use there, but I think it works - in a way it establishes Moore Bond's style. Then we see it being used again during an especially tense moment at Kananga's farm, and here it fails to work as intended, because of the boat being moored. Bond has to escape using his brains and that, to me, is a great subversion of expectations. Finally we see it later with the saw and this time it works again (we want it to work because of the tense sequence just prior where Bond is sliced). Ever since I saw that film (and TMWTGG, OHMSS and LTK for that matter) I've lusted after that watch. Finally, I got one a few years back, sans saw or magnet.

    So ultimately for me it's not the gadget (or formula) that's the problem per se, but rather, the film maker's inability to properly use or apply such concepts and devices without it becoming a joke.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    i imagine he had one monster headache, but he overcomes that with tremendous will.
  • Posts: 15,125
    That's why I think they should bring back the old gadgets, use them in different ways, have them fail sometimes, etc. And give some to the villains as well.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited January 2019 Posts: 8,401
    The gadgets are actually there to enforce Bonds fallibility. If Bond got through on just his wits every time he would start to come across as a superman type figure, or the villains would look idiots. We need to know that there are some things James Bond can't do and some predicaments he can't think around. Sometimes, he truly is outsmarted or outnumbered. In those times it is necessary that he has some other trick up his sleeve which the enemy hasn't considered, and that's the role that the gadgets have.
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