Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    jobo wrote: »
    Bond is full of coincidences. The most famous example is probably in Thunderball where Bond just happens to bump into a Spectre member and finding a vital clue at Shrublands.

    Now imagine Count Lippe turned out to be his long lost and previously unmentioned foster brother.

    Exactly.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Controversial opinions? In the controversial opinions thread? The audacity!

    To stoke the fire even more: There is nothing coincidental about the foster brother thing. It's not like Blofeld was living his live being the head of SPECTRE and suddenly his long lost foster brother shows up at a colleague's funeral out of nowhere. He is the architect of everything. He did everything he has ever done since killing his father so it would lead Bond to the meeting in Rome and finally to Morocco. It is not a coincidence. It is planned.

    And total shit.

    And totally anti-Ian Fleming. Giving us the worst Blofeld incarnation of the series.
  • DaltonFanDaltonFan California
    Posts: 69
    I read in Vanity Fair that Kim Jong Un is a real big fan of the Daniel Craig Bond films and rumor has it that one of the reasons he had Sony Pictures hacked was because he wanted to find out about the plot, etc., of Spectre, which was top secret at the time.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    I read in Vanity Fair that Kim Jong Un is a real big fan of the Daniel Craig Bond films and rumor has it that one of the reasons he had Sony Pictures hacked was because he wanted to find out about the plot, etc., of Spectre, which was top secret at the time.

    I thought he’d be anti-west and everything Bond stands for. It’s very pro-west patriotism.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    QBranch wrote: »
    Vic Tourjansky is loved by even the most serious Bond fans. A role model; a legend. Salute.
    9892745633_ee4c20d1f1_o.png
    =))
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    I still think that discussions about SP result in a lot of war talk in the trenches, with certain aspects of the film blown out of proportions. Brother Blofeld is a true weakness--I think we've established that. And then there's a lot of other stuff, stuff that's actually very good if not great, at least in my opinion. But I guess we'll have to see where NTTD takes us and if SP will be favourably re-evaluated afterwards or not. Another reason why I can't wait for NTTD. ;-)

    I guess I can conjure up another potentially controversial opinion: no matter how silly, I actually love Victor Tourjansky's "man with bottle" routine in Roger's middle three films. I can't help it, there's something really funny about these silly cameos. I hated them when I was 12, but I'm always looking forward to them now. Perhaps I just found Tourjansky a nice bloke in one of those 'Inside' documentaries...

    I’ll be honest, I’ve still never seen this man who cameoed three times with his bottle. I imagine I’d like it too. I’ll have to watch the films again with a mind to see him.

    I really wish the Craig era had rebooted “Man With Bottle.” He always appeared in Italy and four of Craig’s five have been set there. Plenty of things for him to react to, too: sinking house in Venice, gunshots at the Palio, DB10 jumping into the Tiber, whatever NTTD has in store…
  • ThunderballThunderball playing Chemin de Fer in a casino, downing Vespers
    Posts: 814
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I still think that discussions about SP result in a lot of war talk in the trenches, with certain aspects of the film blown out of proportions. Brother Blofeld is a true weakness--I think we've established that. And then there's a lot of other stuff, stuff that's actually very good if not great, at least in my opinion. But I guess we'll have to see where NTTD takes us and if SP will be favourably re-evaluated afterwards or not. Another reason why I can't wait for NTTD. ;-)

    I guess I can conjure up another potentially controversial opinion: no matter how silly, I actually love Victor Tourjansky's "man with bottle" routine in Roger's middle three films. I can't help it, there's something really funny about these silly cameos. I hated them when I was 12, but I'm always looking forward to them now. Perhaps I just found Tourjansky a nice bloke in one of those 'Inside' documentaries...

    I’ll be honest, I’ve still never seen this man who cameoed three times with his bottle. I imagine I’d like it too. I’ll have to watch the films again with a mind to see him.

    1nseilc7exc41.png?auto=webp&s=5ec14173efa21f3c1f0313145c4948c4c54140a0

    Blink and you’ll miss him in FYEO.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I still think that discussions about SP result in a lot of war talk in the trenches, with certain aspects of the film blown out of proportions. Brother Blofeld is a true weakness--I think we've established that. And then there's a lot of other stuff, stuff that's actually very good if not great, at least in my opinion. But I guess we'll have to see where NTTD takes us and if SP will be favourably re-evaluated afterwards or not. Another reason why I can't wait for NTTD. ;-)

    I guess I can conjure up another potentially controversial opinion: no matter how silly, I actually love Victor Tourjansky's "man with bottle" routine in Roger's middle three films. I can't help it, there's something really funny about these silly cameos. I hated them when I was 12, but I'm always looking forward to them now. Perhaps I just found Tourjansky a nice bloke in one of those 'Inside' documentaries...

    I’ll be honest, I’ve still never seen this man who cameoed three times with his bottle. I imagine I’d like it too. I’ll have to watch the films again with a mind to see him.

    1nseilc7exc41.png?auto=webp&s=5ec14173efa21f3c1f0313145c4948c4c54140a0

    Blink and you’ll miss him in FYEO.

    Here's an interview with the late Mr Tourjansky:



    I'd forgotten until recently that he was an assistant director on the films.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    suavejmf wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    I read in Vanity Fair that Kim Jong Un is a real big fan of the Daniel Craig Bond films and rumor has it that one of the reasons he had Sony Pictures hacked was because he wanted to find out about the plot, etc., of Spectre, which was top secret at the time.

    I thought he’d be anti-west and everything Bond stands for. It’s very pro-west patriotism.

    He must've became a Bond fan around the time of Die Another Day. ;)
  • edited February 2021 Posts: 2,917
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I thought he’d be anti-west and everything Bond stands for. It’s very pro-west patriotism.

    Even then the glamor and excitement of the series is hard to resist. And of course Bond is the ultimate male fantasy, especially for ugly fat men who have power but no charm. One could build up a list of people who shouldn't have liked the Bond films but did, such as Robert Maxwell, a real-life Bond villain whose death was referenced in Tomorrow Never Dies. He was also the direct inspiration for Elliot Carver.

    According to Maxwell's biographer, "in his final months, Maxwell spent most of his time alone in his London apartment. Unable to sleep for more than two hours at a time, he whiled away the time by watching James Bond movies and gorging himself on Chinese takeaways...he had by now taken to eating with his hands like a toddler, as if he could not get the food down quickly enough. Before he got dressed, two maids would come in and tidy up. As well as clearing away the empty takeaway containers and discarded papers, they had to pick up towels that had been left lying about – towels that Maxwell sometimes used instead of toilet paper, then tossed on to the floor."

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    Revelator wrote: »
    The issue with Brofeld is that it's another example of the series trying too hard to ape contemporary trends. Turning the hero-villain confrontation into yet another this time it's personal feud involving a figure from the hero's deep past is horribly cliched. And to what effect? Waltz campily harps on about his history to Bond, who looks bored and barely cognizant of the personal connection. Dramatically incompetent handling of conceptually corny material.

    The concept was just unnecessary. One of the great things about the Bond series is its avoidance of domesticity and childhood. That's part of what made it so appealing to adults. Skyfall came close to breaking the rule, but Bond's childhood home was more an excuse to feature a good location than a probe of Bond's past. Fleming was able to create some of the greatest villains of the 20th century without having to give them tortuous links to Bond's childhood ("Octopussy" is the only exception, but the story never feels contrived, unlike Spectre). The same of course goes for his Blofeld, who stands on his own.

    I was very excited when I heard Blofeld was returning to the movies. I hoped EON would take the opportunity to wipe away the encrustations of Dr. Evil-style camp and make him an effective villain again, harking back to Fleming's treatment of the character. Instead Spectre did the worst possible thing: give Blofeld a childhood relationship with Bond and pile on the camp tropes (the cat, the scar, the Nehru jacket, Waltz overacting, etc.). It feels like nobody in charge was certain about which direction to take the character--and that's symptomatic of Spectre's script history, as the Sony leaks demonstrated. The previous stinkers in the series merely suggested exhaustion; Spectre suggests profound indecision.

    Excellent points. They took the Blofeld tics of the '60s and fused them to a short story, but failed to create an actual character for the film.
  • DaltonFanDaltonFan California
    Posts: 69
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 2021 Posts: 18,270
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    It is pretty well established that the Young Un live in Switzerland in the 90s and he apparently picked up a lot of western culture there.
  • Posts: 15,115
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?
  • Posts: 15,115
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 2021 Posts: 18,270
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 2021 Posts: 18,270
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    It's really is a film of two halves. I remember really liking the first hour a lot, to the point it was my favourite Brosnan film for a long time (on the premise that the first hour is so good). But the Iceland stuff gets worse every time you see it.

    Not sure which is my favourite Brosnan film any more. Might have to be TND by default.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    It's really is a film of two halves. I remember really liking the first hour a lot, to the point it was my favourite Brosnan film for a long time (on the premise that the first hour is so good). But the Iceland stuff gets worse every time you see it.

    Not sure which is my favourite Brosnan film any more. Might have to be TND by default.

    Yes, I agree, more than most Bonds it is a film of two halves. It's never been my favourite Brosnan Bond though. That would be either GE or TWINE. I find it hard to decide between them. TND was the first Bond film I saw in the cinemas but I rank it pretty lowly now.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    I rank all the Brosnans pretty lowly. They have good bits but they are the worst of the different eras for me.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    I rank all the Brosnans pretty lowly. They have good bits but they are the worst of the different eras for me.

    I'm the same. He's my least favourite Bond, even though I grew up in his era. I was a Bond fan before Brosnan came along though. I think it ultimately comes down to the writing and the lack of any fidelity to anything Fleming wrote. The Brosnan era is the only one not to have any real direct lifts from Fleming.
  • Posts: 631
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2021 Posts: 7,546
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,584
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    DaltonFan wrote: »
    @Dragonpol: Fun fact: His father was also a Bond fan until Die Another Day because for some nutty reason he got upset that the bad guys were North Korean.

    Yes, I've read that the film didn't go down well in North Korea. I suppose that's an understandable reaction from a Communist dictatorship heavily reliant on censorship though.

    I've also read that the current North Korean leader's father, Kim Jong-il, learned to speak English from watching Star Trek episodes. Oh, and Klingon as well. ;)

    My bet is thar he was also insulted to have the Bond villain be a petulant child.

    Maybe it hit a little too close to home?

    I just wished the film hadn't been that bad.

    Me too. It's my least favourite film in the series. Instead of focusing on one or two specific areas it tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably.

    The first half is good, though, right? It's only when he goes to Iceland that it falls to pieces. Or do you hate it all?

    Yes, I agree. No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them. The first half of Die Another Day is good when it focuses on being a serious post-9/11 spy thriller and before all of the silliness, bad CGI and genre bending comes in with the second half.

    giphy.gif
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!

    True. I suppose you have to take it all in context too. The Bond films are one of the most successful series of the films in the history of cinema. A Bond film can be seen as bad in the context of the other Bond films that it's compared and contrasted against. I think that is what people here mean when they rate or rank the Bond films.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No Bond film is without merit and there's something to enjoy in all of them.

    This. People should watch Hellraiser: Revelations, the 9th Hellraiser film and one of the two worst films I have ever seen, to calibrate their quality standards before they start condemning an entire Bond film.

    You've made me curious. I know The Room has become a joke / cult classic, but it's also a textbook example of how to make a film poorly. To say any Bond film is truly bad when films like this exist, is crazy!

    True. I suppose you have to take it all in context too. The Bond films are one of the most successful series of the films in the history of cinema. A Bond film can be seen as bad in the context of the other Bond films that it's compared and contrasted against. I think that is what people here mean when they rate or rank the Bond films.

    Certainly. I thought the comment I quoted was referencing people who think some Bond films are bad in the context of all filmmaking. Which is still a valid opinion, but it wouldn’t hurt to take a wider view of bad films.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    Controversial opinion: TMWTGG is the laziest of all the Bond films, followed by DAF.
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