Lewis Collins: 007 ,Who Dares Wins & Professionals appreciation/discussion.

1235

Comments

  • Posts: 7,407
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Dalton was never really mentioned at all around that time,it was all Lewis,and I feel its a real missed opportunity not to at least give him a screen test.
    I don't think Cubby was keen on him even before he entered the interview room.

    Think you're being a bit too dismissive of Dalton.
    I believe he was always on Cubbys wishlist and was indeed considered for FYEO and OP!
    Much as I Iike Collins and a big The Professionals fan (And Who Dares Wins) There s no way I would have chose him over Dalton!
    Though if Collins did take over from Moore in 81 we may still have got Tims portrayal!
  • Posts: 4,044
    Lewis was a bit of a merseybeat pop star.

  • Posts: 157
    Definitely a missed opportunity , probably would have been similar to Connery, I have never seen the Martin Shaw clip but he did say he had been asked to audition for the role of Bond in another interview.
    Talking of auditions for the I thought Sam Neil was good but it wasn't a action scene.
    Oliver Tobias was a surprise always thought he would have made a great Solomon Kane.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I havent seen that before,good find @bondjames !!
    My pleasure. I had no idea that he was a serious contender back then (this thread has been very informative for me).

    Like you I would have liked to have seen a screentest, but I guess he never made it that far. With the Broccoli's, it seems to be a case of whether one gels with them personally first. I wonder if Cubby really wanted Connery back for DAF, or whether MGM were chiefly responsible for that. If they were, then we were lucky imho. Similarly with Brosnan for GE (although Dalton has grown on me over the years, I think Pierce was necessary for 1995).
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I havent seen that before,good find @bondjames !!
    My pleasure. I had no idea that he was a serious contender back then (this thread has been very informative for me).

    Like you I would have liked to have seen a screentest, but I guess he never made it that far. With the Broccoli's, it seems to be a case of whether one gels with them personally first. I wonder if Cubby really wanted Connery back for DAF, or whether MGM were chiefly responsible for that. If they were, then we were lucky imho. Similarly with Brosnan for GE (although Dalton has grown on me over the years, I think Pierce was necessary for 1995).

    My pleasure as well re this thread i made,i've always been a Lewis Collins fan.
    And yes,Pierce and GE and Campbell saved the series for sure.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 3,333
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I havent seen that before,good find @bondjames !!
    My pleasure. I had no idea that he was a serious contender back then (this thread has been very informative for me).

    Like you I would have liked to have seen a screentest, but I guess he never made it that far. With the Broccoli's, it seems to be a case of whether one gels with them personally first. I wonder if Cubby really wanted Connery back for DAF, or whether MGM were chiefly responsible for that. If they were, then we were lucky imho. Similarly with Brosnan for GE (although Dalton has grown on me over the years, I think Pierce was necessary for 1995).
    I think it’s a matter of public record that Cubby wanted John Gavin for DAF. It was United Artists that wanted Sean Connery back, paying a then-record $1.25 for his services. It had nothing to do with Cubby. It was all David Picker who cited that money was no object in getting Connery to return and it was he that brokered the deal.

    It does appear that Oliver Tobias came closer to stepping into the shoes of 007 than perhaps Collins did, at least securing a screentest. Not that I believe that Cubby, now sole producer of Bond, was entertaining anyone else other than Roger Moore by the late Seventies. Dalton was supposedly on Cubby’s radar, all though I wonder how serious this really was. Up until then, Dalton had refused all offers of a screentest, claiming he didn’t like the direction the movies had gone in. He even turned down the OHMSS one, telling his agent he wasn’t interested. There was never a screentest and never a firm offer from the producers. His name was just one on a list of 500 possible candidates, which was whittled down to the final seven that appeared in Life magazine, after the biggest casting call in movie history. Dalton appears to have reignited interest after appearing in Flash Gordon, as it was Michael Billington that was Cubby’s own preference to takeover Moore if he decided to not return for MR or FYEO.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Quote from Lewis Collins imdb page:

    After auditioning for the role of "James Bond": It would be nice to get back to the original Bond, not the character created by Sean Connery - but the one from the books. He's not over-handsome, over-tall. He's about my age and has got my attitudes... I was in Albert R. Broccoli's office for five minutes, but it was really over for me in seconds. I have heard since that he doesn't like me. That's unfair. He's expecting another Connery to walk through the door and there are few of them around. I think he's really shut the door on me. He found me too aggressive. I knew it all -- that kind of attitude. Two or three years ago that would be the case, purely because I was nervous and defensive. I felt they were playing the producer bit with fat cigars. When someone walks into their office for the most popular film job in the world, a little actor is bound to put on a few airs. If Cubby couldn't see I was being self-protective, I don't have faith in his judgment.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I havent seen that before,good find @bondjames !!
    My pleasure. I had no idea that he was a serious contender back then (this thread has been very informative for me).

    Like you I would have liked to have seen a screentest, but I guess he never made it that far. With the Broccoli's, it seems to be a case of whether one gels with them personally first. I wonder if Cubby really wanted Connery back for DAF, or whether MGM were chiefly responsible for that. If they were, then we were lucky imho. Similarly with Brosnan for GE (although Dalton has grown on me over the years, I think Pierce was necessary for 1995).
    I think it’s a matter of public record that Cubby wanted John Gavin for DAF. It was United Artists that wanted Sean Connery back, paying a then-record $1.25 for his services. It had nothing to do with Cubby. It was all David Picker who cited that money was no object in getting Connery to return and it was he that brokered the deal.

    It does appear that Oliver Tobias came closer to stepping into the shoes of 007 than perhaps Collins did, at least securing a screentest. Not that I believe that Cubby, now sole producer of Bond, was entertaining anyone else other than Roger Moore by the late Seventies. Dalton was supposedly on Cubby’s radar, all though I wonder how serious this really was. Up until then, Dalton had refused all offers of a screentest, claiming he didn’t like the direction the movies had gone in. He even turned down the OHMSS one, telling his agent he wasn’t interested. There was never a screentest and never a firm offer from the producers. His name was just one on a list of 500 possible candidates, which was whittled down to the final seven that appeared in Life magazine, after the biggest casting call in movie history. Dalton appears to have reignited interest after appearing in Flash Gordon, as it was Michael Billington that was Cubby’s own preference to takeover Moore if he decided to not return for MR or FYEO.
    Thanks for this @bondsum. I hadn't even heard of Oliver Tobias before, let alone known that he had secured a screentest. A quick google search leaves me unimpressed, so even though I realize one shouldn't make judgments based on still photos, I'm glad he never became Bond.

    I had no idea that Michael Billington was under consideration either. XXX's beau certainly had the Bond look (my father once mistook him for Lazzer when we saw TSWLM together), but I'm happy Moore returned.

    RE: the Gavin/Cubby scenaro, while DAF isn't Sean's best performance as Bond, the film has its charms. If Gavin had been cast, we probably wouldn't have had Rog's time in the role. That would have been a shame, at least for me.
    vzok wrote: »
    Quote from Lewis Collins imdb page:

    After auditioning for the role of "James Bond": It would be nice to get back to the original Bond, not the character created by Sean Connery - but the one from the books. He's not over-handsome, over-tall. He's about my age and has got my attitudes... I was in Albert R. Broccoli's office for five minutes, but it was really over for me in seconds. I have heard since that he doesn't like me. That's unfair. He's expecting another Connery to walk through the door and there are few of them around. I think he's really shut the door on me. He found me too aggressive. I knew it all -- that kind of attitude. Two or three years ago that would be the case, purely because I was nervous and defensive. I felt they were playing the producer bit with fat cigars. When someone walks into their office for the most popular film job in the world, a little actor is bound to put on a few airs. If Cubby couldn't see I was being self-protective, I don't have faith in his judgment.
    That's a very honest and heartfelt summary of his impression of the meeting. Great read.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Collins might have been a decent choice but somehow I can understand after Lazenby that Cubby was wary of the actors that were too cocky. With Roger Moore they saved the franchise as it is today. Not sure that Collins had a similar staying power.
    Roger Moore is one of kind for me, you cannot say the same about Lewis Collins.
  • Posts: 1,548
    I would have preferred Joan Collins over Lewis!
  • Posts: 4,603
    It seems a shame, considering whats at stake, that a personal "lack of chemistry" would dash hopes on the rocks within a few minutes.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 1,661
    From what I understand, Roger Moore had a 'one film contract' deal from Moonraker so the other actors had to hope Moore would price himself out of the role. This never happened. Moore was replaced due to his age, not wanting too much money.

    I think Lewis Collins had potential as a more gritty Bond, I'd rate him above many of the names mentioned in the 1980s, but Collins, like all the other names up for the role, would have to rely on Moore wanting too much money and Cubby and the studio saying "no." It must have been a near impossible task for any actor to expect to replace Moore. Moore could play a waiting game and the likes of Collins, Brolin etc could try out for the part, but Moore must have had great confidence he would be back in the role. If you look at it from that perspective, it's not surprising Moore made seven films in a row.

    Another actor who had potential was Ian Ogilvy. He played the Saint in the 1970s. I'd rate Ogilvy and Collins as interesting 'what if' Bond candidates. :) Ogilvy closer to the Moore style, Collins offering a different take on Bond, perhaps.
  • Posts: 16,149
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    From what I understand, Roger Moore had a 'one film contract' deal from Moonraker so the other actors had to hope Moore would price himself out of the role. This never happened. Moore was replaced due to his age, not wanting too much money.

    I think Lewis Collins had potential as a more gritty Bond, I'd rate him above many of the names mentioned in the 1980s, but Collins, like all the other names up for the role, would have to rely on Moore wanting too much money and Cubby and the studio saying "no." It must have been a near impossible task for any actor to expect to replace Moore. Moore could play a waiting game and the likes of Collins, Brolin etc could try out for the part, but Moore must have had great confidence he would be back in the role. If you look at it from that perspective, it's not surprising Moore made seven films in a row.

    Another actor who had potential was Ian Ogilvy. He played the Saint in the 1970s. I'd rate Ogilvy and Collins as interesting 'what if' Bond candidates. :) Ogilvy closer to the Moore style, Collins offering a different take on Bond, perhaps.

    Certain shots of Pierce in his Bond films remind me a bit of Ogilvy as The Saint. I always thought by the late '80's Ogilvy might have made a decent Bond. There was a Diet Coke commercial with Ogilvy as a Bondian character very similar to the Brosnan Diet Coke commercials. Gave an indication what he might have been like in the role.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    After Who Dares Wins, Collins was typecast in a lot of B-Movies concerning mercenaries. Shame really. He could've been a great star. Didn't he at the time apply for an actual enlistment in the SAS for which he was rejected for being famous?
  • Posts: 4,603
    In the early 1980s he passed initial selection for the 21 Special Air Service (Volunteer) Regiment but was denied from continuing because "senior officers ruled that his celebrity status made him a security risk.
  • edited August 2018 Posts: 3,333
    @fanboy123 raises a good point. Ogilvy was one of the other names being mooted in the UK press, though Collins was by far the most popular candidate choice at the time.

    We’ll never know whether Collins had the staying power in the role @SaintMark, just like we would never know whether John Gavin would’ve killed the franchise stone dead had he been cast in DAF. Of course Roger Moore did phenomenally well with LALD, the big promotional push made sure of that. It was TMWTGG that almost curtailed his tenure with its poor box office. UA wanted to replace him with a different actor, but Cubby fought hard to give Moore one last chance.

    Also, using an actor’s career success beyond their initial Bond audition after they failed to land the role isn’t necessarily a good indicator, or projection, of how they would have faired as Bond, either. After all, Pierce Brosnan was struggling in made-for-TV limbo trash until GE came along, and he was much younger than Collins and was fortunate enough to have already been embraced as an Anglo-American by the adopted country he was living in. Some actors just don’t get that extra lucky break that propels them upwards and onwards. It would also be interesting to see where Moore’s career would’ve gone had he not secured the role of 007. I’m sure Lew Grade would’ve found another TV project for the extremely out-of-shape actor. I say out-of-shape because I’m not entirely convinced Moore himself would have put himself through such a rigorous exercise regime had it not been for Saltzman telling him to lose the flab, unlike Grade who took on a chubby Moore for The Persuaders role.
  • Posts: 19,339
    For me Ogilvy is a dead ringer for Sir Rog,but he was too similar,slight,too skinny,compared to Collins..he would have just carried on Sir Roger's Bond and times were changing.

    Thats why i think Collins' Bond would have worked compared to Daltons' ,as he was well known and established as a tough CI5 operative,and loved by the public.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Yes, I agree that there’s something of Moore in Ogilvy. As a matter of fact I’m actually surprised Ogilvy’s name didn’t first crop up before OHMSS, due to his popularity in The Witchfinder General and The Sorcerers in the Sixties.

    I think had Cubby wanted a Moore-type actor in the same mould to succeed Roger, then Ogilvy would’ve made a fine Bond, certainly better than James Brolin.

    My own personal choices would have been Collins and Tobias in that order. I always thought Tobias looked like a more rugged Pierce Brosnan.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Not feeling so good today so watching the Professionals x the one I’m watching is a perfect time to get Lewis to audition for FYEO.
    I think he was a Craig/Brosnan Bond mix,would have been perfect.
  • Posts: 7,407
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Not feeling so good today so watching the Professionals x the one I’m watching is a perfect time to get Lewis to audition for FYEO.
    I think he was a Craig/Brosnan Bond mix,would have been perfect.

    Get well soon Bazza!
    You should watch Who Dares Wins too as a bonus!
  • Posts: 12,526
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Not feeling so good today so watching the Professionals x the one I’m watching is a perfect time to get Lewis to audition for FYEO.
    I think he was a Craig/Brosnan Bond mix,would have been perfect.

    Get well soon buddy!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Thanks chaps x Who Dares Wins is going in the DVD today !
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Not feeling so good today so watching the Professionals x the one I’m watching is a perfect time to get Lewis to audition for FYEO.
    I think he was a Craig/Brosnan Bond mix,would have been perfect.
    Yeah, get well @barryt007. I entirely agree with you on Collins. The fact that Cubby thought he was too aggressive was exactly why he was perfect for the role. Such a shame Saltzman wasn't around to put Cubby straight. As I recall, it was Who Dares Wins that even made Stanley Kubrick a fan and declare that he thought Collins would make an excellent Bond. The one and only time you ever heard Kubrick mention anything about James Bond.

    Just for you... though I preferred his shorter haircut in the Professionals...

  • Posts: 19,339
    bondsum wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Not feeling so good today so watching the Professionals x the one I’m watching is a perfect time to get Lewis to audition for FYEO.
    I think he was a Craig/Brosnan Bond mix,would have been perfect.
    Yeah, get well @barryt007. I entirely agree with you on Collins. The fact that Cubby thought he was too aggressive was exactly why he was perfect for the role. Such a shame Saltzman wasn't around to put Cubby straight. As I recall, it was Who Dares Wins that even made Stanley Kubrick a fan and declare that he thought Collins would make an excellent Bond. The one and only time you ever heard Kubrick mention anything about James Bond.

    Just for you... though I preferred his shorter haircut in the Professionals...

    I must admit @bondsum ,that video of Lewis as Bond brought a tear of frustration to my eye.
    Even as a kid of 11 when FYEO was possibly his chance I wished it would happen.
    This just proves what a fantastic 007 Lewis would have made.
    And I agree,if Harry Saltzman was there he would have been Bond.
    What a missed opportunity x makes Dalton look like a luvvie theatre actor (which he is ) !!!!!
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Absolutely, @barryt007. As I pointed out above, I preferred Collins with shorter hair as seen in his Professional days. The video below gives a much better idea how Collins look and mannerisms were ideal for reviving 007 from the goofball Bond we had at the time, especially if they'd groomed him similar to Bodie rather than his Captain Peter Skellen role a few year's later. Dalton was the actor Cubby originally wanted for FYEO after seeing him with Topol in Flash Gordon, but Dalton didn't like the silliness of the current Bond movies and turned him down, so they had to go back to Moore. That whole graveyard Tracy scene was written with Dalton in mind, certainly not Roger's Bond. You see it was okay for Dalton to balk at puerile Bond but when Collins said the same thing, Cubby thought he was being disrespectful and refused to consider him. Also, on reflection, I think you're probably right about Dalton being too much of a theatrical luvvie for Bond. That certainly seems to have been the U.S. reaction to him in the role when it came to box office ticket sales. Collins, I believe, would have been another Connery and more likely accepted by the Americans because he wasn't so stiff and regimented as Dalton. Though Dalton was working-class himself, he perhaps played Bond a little too high-born without mixing it up with his real lower-class roots like Connery managed to achieve, though we still believed Connery's Bond was landed gentry and blue blooded. Alas, Cubby denied a lot of us earlier Bond fans a chance to see Collins take on the role and decided to stick with his tried-and-trusted debonair Moore in the role instead, making a total nonsense out of FYEO. The audience backlash to FYEO was evident when its box office results took a significant drop from MR. I'm sure there were a number of reasons for this: smaller budget, a reluctant returning Moore, insipid story, mis-selling FYEO as a back-to-basics caper but still retaining its previous tomfoolery. It's a Bond movie that falls between two stools, and achieves very little when we return to the tired high jinks with OP, one movie later.

  • edited July 2019 Posts: 19,339
    Thanks for that montage @bondsum , I honestly think Lewis would have been better than all the Bond’s and alongside Connery.
    He had the whole package,and his fight scenes make Lazenby look like a schoolboy.
    I was so upset when he didn’t get the role and Dalton came along.
    He was tailor made to be 007 and I will always mention and champion him to people about what things could have been with Lewis in the role.
  • edited July 2019 Posts: 3,333
    I don't know about making Lazenby look like a schoolboy @barryt007, but I do understand the sentiment. Collins would've come at the right time had Cubby decided to give the series a much-needed creative boost. Personally, I think Collins should've been cast earlier than FYEO and played 007 in a serious take of MR when Moore was stalling over signing a new contract after TSWLM. It's almost a shame that TSWLM was the big hit it was as it pulled the series in the opposite direction that I, as a Bond fan, wanted to see it go in. Very much like yourself, I was hugely disappointed not see Collins cast as the new Bond. Dalton would've been artistically better than Moore in FYEO, but I think due to the lack of enthusiasm across the pond to his later casting, I'm pretty confident he'd have alienated more fans than created new ones by the time of TLD. Collins I think would've been different, as he could also play light and loose.
  • Posts: 7,407
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Thanks for that montage @bondsum , I honestly think Lewis would have been better than all the Bond’s and alongside Connery.
    He had the whole package,and his fight scenes make Lazenby look like a schoolboy.
    I was so upset when he didn’t get the role and Dalton came along.
    He was tailor made to be 007 and I will always mention and champion him to people about what things could have been with Lewis in the role.

    I certainly would have taken him over Brosnan..But not Dalton!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I would have been interested to see Collins as Bond. But as @Mathis1 said, I wouldn't want Collins at the expense of Dalton. Could Collins have done FYEO, OP & AVTAK, handing over to Dalton for TLD?
  • Posts: 3,333
    There's the rub @Mathis1. I don't think you can have either Lewis or Brosnan, as Brosnan could still have easily played Bond after Lewis retired from the role. Personally, if I was Cubby's righthand man, I'd have pushed Collins ahead of Moore and Dalton. Especially now that we know that Dalton didn't reignite the box office in the U.S. with his two movies. If it meant erasing Moore from FYEO, OP, and AVTAK, I'd take Lewis in a heartbeat.
Sign In or Register to comment.