SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • Posts: 6,396
    How can anyone think that Paul Haggis wrote Blackadder? That's a new one on me!
  • Posts: 7,653
    For Your Eyes Only

    was quite realistic IMHO

    Most Realistic Bond Film
    ~ Bond's capabilities
    No superman, even in the ski chase you can easily hear his grunts as he delivers an action.

    ~ Villain's main aims
    It is about smuggling and earning a bob by selling classified equipment that accidental ended up on the bottom of the sea.

    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport (including vehicles, methods of transport)
    The producer made a joke of the special gadgets themselves by blowing up the Lotus and giving 007 the worst car ever for a chase. It is very low on gadgets.

    ~ Villain's capabilities (physical, mental, influence on others, wealth/assets, etc.)
    The man plays a wicked game of doublecross and is nothing special besides being smart enough keeping out of the laws hands for such a long time. Made a bundle while manipulating the police and locals.

    ~ Portrayal of the world or situation that Bond finds himself in
    007 send out to find the killer of an employee of MI6, who then gets killed and whose trail 007 follows to Cortina and finally Corfu. James does his job while sympathizing once more with a scoundrel, which he has a soft spot for according Fleming, and keeping a vengeful daughter safe.

    ~ Escapes and chases
    The car chase is fun and frivolous, the ski chases is quite exciting, the ice ring is a bit much, the fight in Albania ending in Loques dead is very exciting stuff, the underwater scenes are thrilling and the climbing scene is absolutely one of the best real stunts done for the series. Most action sequences are quite down to earth and feasible.

    ~ Fights
    At no point Bond strikes you as the superman portrayed by Craig but he is far more human but very determined to do his job.

    ~ Finale and resolution of the story

    "detente comrade", says it all. The McGuffin gets destroyed and 007 and Gogol face off in a professional way. Great resolution, the bad guy gets killed, Melinas parents get revenged, the skate girl gets a new sponsor and 007 goes skinny dipping.
  • Posts: 6,396
    And Max falls in love... ;-)
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    I'm with @Beatles on this one - there are so many people putting their input into the Bond films that the script only seems to be a starting point. And I think that Haggis' contribution has been blown out of all proportion. Same with Logan. I hope Bond 24 is going to be good, but as a certain someone from a different franchise might say…'I've got a bad feeling about this…'
  • Posts: 7,653
    And Max falls in love... ;-)

    That was Cubby taking a stab at Maggie, a good laugh.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    @Lancaster you're right, my bad, I got the two confused. Should pay more attention there. (Haggis & Curtis)
    @Chrisisall in regard to your table-comment:
    I know there's a small company with a far more advanced table, but I can't find any material on that, mainly becouse i forgot the name and the big boys steal all the google-results.

    @Beatles I'm afraid it's a bit hit and miss with the humour. some of it reminding me of, say DAF:
    ... What were you saying, Admiral?
    Something about this 'not being a job
    for a wine-sniffing, skirt-chasing
    playboy spy?'


    I don't think Admirals are that well informed on the life of spies. Moneypenny goes too far as well. But some of it was quite alright. Just not very British, and I think that's a letdown.

    For me this is one of the last posts for quite some time, as in a week I'll be off to India and yes, we'll try to go and see the floating palace. I'll be off the air for more then a month. Good luck with this thread!I'd love it when there'll be a lot to read when i get back.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    To be fair about Haggis obviously he could never have written a Blackadder script that would compare to the originals it just would not be his style
    However does anyone remember DUE SOUTH ? And the great stories and plot lines in that show.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Tomorrow Never Dies has a great premise and idea, and yes it was so original. Pity they choose to "paint by the numbers" this time around.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Great to wake up to new posts on this thread - thanks, everybody!

    @Beatles, I understand what you are implying re P&W, and I await delving further into that with you. :)>-

    @SaintMark, very good to read your breakdown of For Your Eyes Only! :) I love that film, and I think it is quite realistic and well done; the whole majority of it. If you take out the PTS and silly ending (which again, I enjoy) it ranks as a top 5 contender for a realistic Bond film. So I'm quite happy you wrote it up for this discussion. If you would please add the 1 to 5 ranking in each category, it will just make it easier when we total up everybody's when we finish this round. You did use the categories, so I hope you can just pop in the ranking for each easily enough. I'd appreciate it.

    As for scripts and the Bond 24 screenplay in particular, I have one last thing to say ...
    For the final script of Bond24, here is my final thought for now (until we have more real news) ~ I am hoping that someone else looks it over one more time - someone other than P&W and Logan. I am being rather picky, I know. Writers vary in their own output of quality. I just do not trust Logan or P&W completely with humorous dialog. And yet, and yet ... because parts of Casino Royale contain sparkling dialog and apparently P&W wrote much of that, I have to remain hopeful. I just think it would be helpful if one other writer read it before the shooting script is printed (I mean just a great screenwriter who is not aiming to get screen credit, who is simply a respected professional and willing to read the final version, for one more pair of fresh eyes on it). Okay, I nominate @ColonelSun for that. B-)
    And for sure, I believe Mendes will take time to go through the final version himself carefully. They are surely on a tighter time schedule now with the script. Probably not drastic yet, no - but I don't think there is time to waste for P&W, Mendes, Barbara and Michael and whoever else is involved with saying that's a final version. Humor in Bond films is a tricky balance. Plus there may be other changes that are important, too.

    Back to Most Realistic Bond films! I am leaving too soon to finish my next one - From Russia With Love - but I will tonight after work. I hope more of you join us today. Please think it over and let us know which, or even just one, Bond film you consider to be most realistic.

    Cheers! :>
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2014 Posts: 17,789
    Oh, I guess I have to rate Roger's best bond...

    For Your Eyes Only

    ~ Bond's capabilities- 5 of 5.
    Physically capable way beyond the average Joe, but well within human limits.
    ~ Villain's main aims- 5 of 5.
    Salvage, smuggle & profit. Entirely realistic.
    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport - 5 of 5.
    Although I'm *tempted* to take off a point for the PTS, I actually can't fault it from a 'realism' point of view. You can climb out on a helicopter in flight & climb back in; it's in no way impossible or even implausible.
    ~ Villain's capabilities - 5 of 5.
    Clever & mean. 100% real.
    ~ Portrayal of the world or situation that Bond finds himself in- 5 of 5.
    Cold war & Greek mob- nothing too fantastical to see here. Move along.
    ~ Escapes and chases- 4.5 of 5.
    Again, I'm tempted to deduct a half pint for Bond being able to ski-jump without training... so I did. The rest is a monument to restraint when the former Bond film is taken into account.
    ~ Fights- 4.5 of 5.
    A half point is deducted because score boards would NOT register beating goons into unconsciousness on ice up if not properly calibrated for the task.
    ~ Finale and resolution of the story - 4 of 5.
    Although the end of the film is rather pitch-perfect in almost EVERY way, the coda I have an issue with. No, not the silly portrayal of Maggie or her hubbie. A full point is deducted for the PM calling an agent PERSONALLY to congratulate him on a mission not actually fully accomplished.

    Total: 38 of 40.

    FRWL still wins, but it was way closer than I'd imagined! :-?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I've done one for Dalton (LTK) and one for Craig (CR), so I think I might do one for Brosnan (probably TND), and after that, if time permits, I'll work my way down and do one for Moore and Connery.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I think I might do one for Brosnan (probably TND), and after that,
    Hey, I LOVE TND, but I won't even TRY to rate it on a 'realism' scale. Best guess scenario would be...
    35 of 40... maybe.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @chrisisall, I would think it'd have a low rating on escapes (sliding down the building in Hamburg without the banner ripping at the end is absurd, and flying through a massive explosion at the arms bazaar in the PTS is extreme, as well), but everything else seems to be in tune with realism: the stealth ship, the whole news angle, etc.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    There are SO many bullets whizzing by in the finale I just can't believe Bond doesn't get hit by ONE....
    In the novelization of Wood's TSWLM he catches one, and it makes it seem all the more REAL.
    Just sayin'.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I forgot to mention that, actually. I thought it up while typing about the escapes, and failed to mention the bullet-to-not-getting-shot ratio is ridiculous in the finale, along with how unrealistic it would be to dual-wield a submachine gun and a suppressed (why keep the suppressor?) handgun at the same time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    "You're shot man!"
    "I don't have time to bleed."
  • Posts: 2,341
    great comments on the realism of Bond films. without going by the numbers, I would easily rank FRWL and OHMSS as the most realistic of the films going by all the categories. I would place both films in the 39-40 scores. Both of Dalton's films would score very high as well.

    Craig films come off as fairly realistic but my complaint is that Criag's invincibility ruins them and drags them down in the rankings. Not so much QoS but CR and SF really suspends the viewers belief.
  • I'll take the first Bond movie.

    Dr. No:
    ~ Bond's capabilities- 5 out of 5
    Bond doesn't do much of anything that a real agent couldn't do, apart from the girls, maybe. More will be elucidated in the later entries.

    ~ Villain's main aims- 4 out of 5
    Missile toppling is possible, and Dr. No's goal is only to embarrass and irritate the U.S. Still, there's more than a hint of the fantastic about it all. The investigation of Strangways' death and Bond's detective work is a bonus, even if it's not worth a full .5.

    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport - 5 out of 5
    His gadgets are a gun and a Geiger counter and he drives a Bentley.

    ~ Villain's capabilities - 3.5 out of 5
    Prior to the underwater lair, this was on track for a higher grade. Nothing against the underwater lair, but there's not much realistic about it.

    ~ World Or Situation - 4.5 out of 5
    The sociopolitical world of Dr. No isn't particularly complicated. Bond is told to go to Jamaica and investigate Strangways' death, and gradually uncovers the conspiracy, which is relatively low-key, in the sense that it's just a a criminal syndicate working with some loaned Red Chinese soldiers & scientists. The Americans' interest in Dr. No also makes sense, but the movie loses a half-point for making them so oblivious of his evil plots.

    ~ Escapes and chases- 4.5 out of 5
    The chase with the Three Blind Mice gets a 5, the escape from Dr. No's lair gets a 4, mostly from Honey's situation, and the lair in the first place. Split the difference.

    ~ Fights- 5 out of 5
    Bond's altercations with Mr. Jones and Dr. No aren't particularly inspired, but they're definitely realistic. The inverse of the underwater lair described above.

    ~ Finale and resolution of the story - 4.5 out of 5
    The explosion of Dr. No's lair is a bit far-fetched, but nothing is particularly silly about the mass panic and desperate escapes. Bond and Honey making their way out on a sad little lifeboat wasn't the cliche that it became over the next fifty years.

    36/40 in total. Not as realistic as the very highest tier, but it's up there. Its greatest strength is the portrayal of Bond, and its greatest weakness is the villain.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Well done SOTS! Good job. =D>
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Well done, Creasy47, chrisisall, soundofthesinners, and OHMSS69. :)
    I would not have thought of Dr. No because of, well, Dr. No himself being a bit too much. But we are just having fun here anyway and it was great to read your posting on it, soundofthesinners (which is such an interesting username, by the way!).

    I'm heading out soon, but I'll check back as soon as I can. I'm enjoying your thoughts and ratings of the Most Realistic Bond films. Please carry on, everyone! =D>
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2014 Posts: 17,789
    I would not have thought of Dr. No because of, well, Dr. No himself being a bit too much.
    Once you accept the hands, and Connery poking fun at same, I guess it's all good...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited July 2014 Posts: 40,968
    Thanks, @4Everbonded. Odd, I thought I already did one for TND. I'll go ahead and do that now for Brosnan. It was either GE or TND, but I feel like the realism will be higher for TND, but who knows, I might do both and see what the comparison is. Hope that isn't clogging up the thread or anything, I know we're supposed to be voting for the most realistic ones, but I won't know which I find more realistic until I type them up.

    'Tomorrow Never Dies'

    Bond's Capabilities - 3 out of 5. While everything Bond does throughout the mission seems to border on realism - I can handle the remote-controlling of the car - a lot of it seems very extreme: flying through explosions, a secret agent who is dual-wielding two different types of weapons like he is John Rambo, dangling on a banner that surely would rip once it snagged at the bottom, etc. This is probably the most realistic aspect to the film, I'd have to say, which is funny, because you'd think things such as the drill or stealth ship would be impossible to achieve in real life.

    Villain's Main Aims - 5 out of 5. A media mogul who wants to start a war just for his own promotion in the news world. I could buy it. It doesn't seem threatening to me, but it's plausible, given his weapons and gadgets.

    Weapons And Gadgets/Transport - 4.5 out of 5. Weapons are typical and realistic, Bond uses jets and a BMW, but I'm going to remove half of a point for the self reinflating tires on Bond's car.

    Villain's Capabilities - 5 out of 5. He owns a stealth ship, a massive drill, a bomb, an encoder, lots of media buildings, tons of goons at his disposal in the South China Sea, and he's willing to use them all to get what he wants. Not much more to say.

    Portrayal Of The World Or Situation That Bond Finds Himself In - 5 out of 5. There's nothing exotic or ridiculous about the locales he visits. Again, when I was young, I thought the stealth ship was impossible, just something cool that was made up for another Bond film, but alas, they most certainly do exist. Yet again, Bond is battling a media mogul, and it's pretty realistic given the times, when you have constant media networks, all vying for the stop spot. Here, we just have a man who is crazy enough to frame governments and kill innocent people to allow himself to rise to the top.

    Escapes And Chases - 4.0 out of 5. I won't get into it, Bond dodging all those bullets and explosions at the end gets it for me, and I've reduced a little bit more due to the fact that he uses unrealistic gadgets (like the aforementioned tires) to help himself.

    Fights - 5 out of 5. I can't think of anything too bizarre to remove any points here. Shocks Dr. Kaufman, has a nasty fight with Stamper, beats some ass using miscellaneous melee weapons during the soundproof room fight with Stamper's men.

    Finale And Resolution Of The Story - 5 out of 5. Bond gets the stealth ship on the scanner and has the British begin firing at his position, which seriously damages the ship. Gupta dies in the process, numerous bad guys die during the finale, Bond kills Elliot with his own drill, and jumps after Wai Lin, leaving Stamper pinned to the missile. It goes off, blows up the ship, and beds the girl in the middle of the sea. If someone wants to correct me, I could remove half a point, but I'm not sure how realistic it was that they stayed underwater while a huge missile detonated and took out the entire ship. I would like to assume it would've done damage to them, but then again, they were pretty far underwater, so perhaps not.

    Total: 36.5/40. Ehh, it seems about right. I would've figured it would be at 35.5-36, but that works. I might work on GE a little later tonight to see what I come up with.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    @Creasy47, great rating, though I think you may have been pretty kind to it; I would expect it'd rate MUCH lower with me (Like closer to 33 or 34 of 40), but I can't complain seeing as it it's one of my all-time favourites. ;)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I think I could've lowered a few points here and there because it all fell back on the unrealistic aspects of the finale and of some of the gadgets. BUT, I'm glad I could impress you with the score. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Heh, to ME, the single most unrealistic aspect is the car landing at the rental office with no collateral damage...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,480
    I am really enjoying reading these. Thanks! =D>

    And just to let you all know, I have a Super Typhoon heading directly for my house. Which means it will waver a bit, but we will probably have the highest level winds. Yeah, at my old, wooden, rickety house on the side of a mountain, facing the sea. Sounds like a good old rock n roll time for me Wed. evening or Thursday a.m. when it makes landfall. Head on, according to the various predictions/maps I've seen. At my house. :D

    Seriously, I am having some fun with that, but I am not really worried. It is a Cat. 5 (poor Okinawa!) now but will be down to a Cat. 2 or 1 for when it joins our merry neighborhood. And I have good shelter right next door in my church, if need be. And I know full well about hurricanes (grew up in Florida and NEVER planned or attended a hurricane party; that is so stupid and reckless) - I do not take any of them (call them typhoon, schmuyfoon, cyclone, hurricane, etc.) for granted. I am not complacent. But I honestly should be okay.

    But all of this means I may be out of action, computer wise, for a day. Probably not longer. If we lose electric power.

    So do carry on, chaps! (and gals ...) Write up your thoughts and rankings of the Most Realistic Bond films for a few more days. B-)

    Here, on this page, are the guidelines and categories:

    1) Please think of the Bond films you would consider to be most realistic.
    This can be any number: one film, five films, etc. Your preferences.

    2) Then look at the films using the set categories. Discuss at length or briefly, your choices. You may use a 1 to 5 rating for each category, or you may simply use wording (strong/mediocre/weak) to explain the details in each category. Your choice, although for the purposes of a final tally I think a 1 to 5 rating would be helpful.

    3)You can take a few days to finish your entries. I know I will.

    4) Then decide your #1 most realistic Bond film, from your choices listed.

    Discussion from everybody as we post is welcome. After finishing, in about a week, we will tally up and find the #1 from this particular group of members participating this round. :-B

    So here are the categories to use for each film you discuss:

    Most Realistic Bond Film
    ~ Bond's capabilities
    ~ Villain's main aims
    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport (including vehicles, methods of transport)
    ~ Villain's capabilities (physical, mental, influence on others, wealth/assets, etc.)
    ~ Portrayal of the world or situation that Bond finds himself in
    ~ Escapes and chases
    ~ Fights
    ~ Finale and resolution of the story
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 3,566
    Here's my first contribution to the Reality Ranking:

    Realism in:
    FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE

    ~ Bond's capabilities: 4.5/5 “I admire your luck, Mister…?” “Shorry, Shyvlia, that was your line in the lasht film. Now kish me before the phone in my car shummons me to work!” Bond’s luck does seem to be very nearly in the realm of a superpower -- especially his luck with the ladies! One-half point deduction for straining the bounds of credibility in this regard.

    ~ Villain's main aims: 5/5 A honey-pot trap. Can’t get much more "real-world espionage" than that!

    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport (including vehicles, methods of transport): 5/5 Bond’s main gadget: the famous attache’ case. Used to great effect, and 100% within the realm of reality. Transport? The Orient Express, in one of its’ most famous movie roles.

    ~ Villain's capabilities (physical, mental, influence on others, wealth/assets, etc.): 4.5/5 As with Bond himself, Spectre is almost TOO good. They have their own island, where training includes the use of live ammunition and the likelihood of death if you happen to be wearing a mask of Sean Connery. One-half point deduction for the actor with the caterpillar on his lip.

    ~ Portrayal of the world or situation that Bond finds himself in: 5/5 I particularly like Kerim Bey’s observation that “the game” is played “a little differently” in the Balkans.

    ~ Escapes and chases: 4/5 The Spectre boats do line up a little too obligingly for the firey climax, but otherwise the realism quotient is fairly high. One full point deduction for the boats being a little too cooperative with Bond’s aims here -- but Walter Gotell is rewarded by being cast as General Gogol in future films.

    ~ Fights: Can I award a 10/5 here? No? Drat! Okay, 5/5 it is then. Bond’s fight with Grant in the train compartment is probably the most memorable fight between two single combatants in the history of cinema.

    ~ Finale and resolution of the story 5/5 Lotte Lenya got her kicks, as did the rest of the movie-going public, and this film scores a highly-respectable 38/40 in the Reality Meter.


  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2014 Posts: 12,480
    How I love From Russia With Love! Thanks for a great write-up, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs.
    I so agree with what you said ... but I just may have to give Sean's Bond a 5 out of 5. ;)

    I will try to get at least one more done myself. Looking forward to reading a bit more of others' ratings or their top Most Realistic Bond Films. B-)
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 3,566
    Realism in:
    FOR YOUR EYES ONLY

    ~ Bond's capabilities: 5/5 One of my favorite aspects of this film is that this is the one in which Bond finally “grows up.” Deaths have consequences…so we see Bond visiting Tracy’s grave for the first time ever. Bond the hardened killer counsels Melina against seeking revenge. And Bond finally finds an attractive female whose amorous attentions he must resist. Some people dislike Bibi because Bond can’t have her, for me this point is her only saving grace.

    ~ Villain's main aims: 5/5 Kristatos wants to recover a missing tracking device and sell it to the Russians. Not exactly a world-threatening plan, and after Moonraker a refreshing return to reality!

    ~ Weapons and gadgets/transport (including vehicles, methods of transport): 5/5 Bond’s car blowing itself up as the ultimate theft-deterrent device early in the film was an amusing way of telling the audience that this film was going to be a little more grounded in reality than many Bond films had been.

    ~ Villain's capabilities (physical, mental, influence on others, wealth/assets, etc.): 5/5 The conflict between Colombo and Kristatos is especially well presented in this regard. Both are competitors in essentially the same field of endeavor. Who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy? We’ll just have to see…

    ~ Portrayal of the world or situation that Bond finds himself in: 4/5. This is a Roger Moore Bond film and as such, we must have some humor that distracts from the seriousness at hand here. One point off for Max the parrot, naturally, only a talking animal can impart important information to Bond at a crucial moment!

    ~ Escapes and chases: 4/5 Did somebody mention the use of humor to distract from the seriousness of the moment? Cue the double-taking drinker while Bond is skiing for his life!

    ~ Fights: 4/5 …and cue the Zamboni! Look, when the main Bond girl has a cooler weapon -- her crossbow -- than Bond himself does, there’s a limit to what you can expect from the action sequences in a particular film. But we’re gauging the reality quotient of this film, so…an extra point for the rock-climbing ascent in the latter part of the movie, and the assault on St. Cyril’s… and we’ll almost forgive the levity of the fights midway through the film.

    ~ Finale and resolution of the story: 4/5 Big points in favor of reality for the simple observation: “That’s détente, comrade!” Big points against reality in general for the inclusion of the gratutitous Margaret Thatcher imitator.

    Final total: 36/40. A few small but significant steps behind FRWL, but a worthy entry in the Realism Tournament all the same.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Oh, I especially love Roger's portrayal in FYEO. It is his best, fully rounded Bond, nuanced perfectly at times and definitely grounded in realism. Glad to read this one, too, Beatles. I loved the locations and the underlying gritty revenge story here. As much as I enjoyed the very ending with the fake Thatcher, I agree deducting for realism there is deserved.
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