SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I won't watch the trailer, but my Son just did and in his words "It looks pretty damn good!"
    drool ensues
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @Birdleson, I'm trying to look at Mr. Hinx's name that way, too. I sort of took that approach months ago with the unveiling of the film's name as SPECTRE - it's just so "in your face" as to be a positive thing. I'm certain once the film starts, I won't be bothered by his name. It just gives one pause as to why they'd go there. Chutzpah is a good take on it probably. Why not?

    Well, @chrisisall, your son is spot on. I'm glad he's that enthusiastic. And I'm happy you're still brave enough (because you are trying to avoid spoilers) to be on this forum even though SPECTRE is only a couple of months away now. :>
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Good spoiler warning, @Birdleson, and I hope others (chrisisall!!!) take note and did not read your post - but I was happy to read your thoughts on the references. I think SPECTRE's references, influences, and nods linking up to previous Bond films are looking great. Quite happy with them. B-)

    I am thrilled that Mr. White is there, tying Quantum (we assume) and SPECTRE and launching us into the next round in this story. I guarantee that we will not have this particular organization or head of organization end with this film.

    We have a more "fully loaded" and elegant looking Aston Martin. We have Q and Moneypenny doing their thing. We have the new guy Denbigh (Andrew Scott) as a question mark still, though.

    I believe we will get more subtle influences from OHMSS, yes. Including perhaps in the music.

    I'm tickled there may be more characters and inferences from the novels that show up in this film.

    The visual/cinematic nods you mentioned make me smile. I remember full well how crap DAD turned out (even after a strong opening sequence, with a Bond I still love) - and I remember reading that it had something like 60 nods/references in it. So unnecessary. And the film has to make it on its own of course.

    Anyway, thanks for pointing those out, @Birdleson. Hoping to hear from more Originals over the next couple of days, with their own thoughts (brief or detailed) on the theatrical trailer for SPECTRE.

    :-bd
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Well I don't know if it were meant as a nod or not, but Lea's walk down the carriage/ talking to Bond strongly reminded me of Vesper. Allthough with what I've seen, for me Lea's the even-more attractive lady. I'm stunned every time I see the trailer.

    Interesting, too, is that I saw the headlights of a 'normal'Aston in the background when Q introduces the new car. I do get the feeling it's going to be an extended Q-in-the-lab scene like we haven't seen since, well, DAD. But more in the vain of the Conner's and Moore tenures.

    I'm quite excited too, to be honest.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited August 2015 Posts: 4,423
    so let me just say that what we’ve seen so far satisfies many of the quibbles I’ve heard so far about Craig’s tenure as Bond. Not enough willing babes in this Bond’s life? Okay, we’ve got at least two delightful damsels here (and maybe more they haven’t shown us yet.) No clear conclusion regarding Quantum? Mr. White is back and he’s just brimming with cryptic clues. No first class henchmen for Bond to confront (and no, Elvis didn’t even make it to 3rd class)? Mr. Hinx looks like he’s ready to give Bond a run (or maybe a drive) for his money. Not enough glamorous locations, no gadgets, no sense of fun in this Bond’s lifestyle? Covered, covered, and covered again.

    The trailer does hit all the key buttons (which @Beatles mentioned so deftly), and it dangles this story tauntingly, but with affection, right before our eyes. It basically whispers "classic Bond" into our ears as we watch this. I felt my emotions simply going, "yes! Yes! YES!" as I watched this. SPECTRE looks to be the Bond film I, and so many others, have been waiting for. To give Daniel Craig a Bond film that lets him rock his full on, smooth, mojo working, in control, dangerous yet sublime, Bond? Hell, yes - I'll buy a ticket for that alone; repeat viewings, please and thank you. This time his Bond does (at long last!) get to enjoy life more. That is plainly evident, even with the story itself being quite sinister and appearing layered/murky beneath the obvious things. Indeed, some things may be too obvious at this point. Hmmmm. But this Bond is free to soar again, I feel.

    Hell yes. It address all of my minor quiddity and niggles quite well. Joy de Vivre indeed!

    The trailer, on first view, looks amazing. A proper Bond film. And the theme to On Her Majesty's Secret Service! I was jumping up and down when I first heard it. Which pleased me no end. Plus Bond is in a White Dinner jacket! So, I felt really good having watched the trailer. I'm looking forward to the Bond and Hinx confrontation enormously. The cinematography looked as good as Skyfall. Craig is more insouciant than ever. Liking Ralph Nathaniel Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes a lot as M. (That is his real name! How very English!) The whole mood of the trailer impressed me no end.


    I'm going to put the following in Spoiler tags. Its not spoilers per se, but just a couple of observations, speculations and suppositions... Oh and I copied this from an email to a friend who is not up on his Bond lore, so forgive me for being somewhat patronising.
    Firstly is Madlne Mr. White's daughter? Bond says to him, "you're protecting someone." then the trailer cuts to Madline. Why should White want to protect her?

    The big bad, we assume is played by Christoph waltz. We know that he's Franz Oberhauser. In the Fleming' novels, Hanz Oberhauser is a ski instructor. A surrogate father to Bond while he was in Austria, after Bond's parents died in a climbing accident. And that Franz (Waltz) appears to be a member of SPECTRE. (Blofeld - I doubt it – would they really waste Blofeld in such an obvious manner?). Franz says - "I'm the author of all your pain". Is he referring to Vesper - maybe he was head of Quantum. Or maybe Tracy - which means he's Blofeld. Or, and I hope NOT with all my heart, he's behind Bond's parents "accident".

    I think it's great that they are turning to Fleming. But if they ( i.e. the filmmakers) are going down this route – having Franz kill Bond's parents – I'm deeply troubled. Fleming wrote the Bond's parents were killed by a climbing accident. So that is canon. I don't like when they mess with Fleming's canon.

    Other things that concerned me were M and Bond at loggerheads, and Bond going rogue, again.

    Again just conjecture for my part.

    But, I'm probably worried over nothing. It's just me being particularly anal.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Good thoughts, there, @royale65. I am mostly with you on those points. But just that one thought -"Bond going rouge" threw me a bit. Do you really think he may don some make up as part of a disguise? I suddenly had a picture of Craig's Bond with heavy blusher on his cheeks and, well, ... I rather hope not.

    Even though yes this is 2015, @Birdleson. ;) Oh you crack me up.

    And @CommanderRoss, I do hope we have a proper Q in his lab with goodies for Bond scene. Seems like we will. That is one thing the Brosnan films did do extremely well - the scenes with Q and Bond. I'd love that. Besides Bond and Q yet again choosing a public bench to converse "in secret" about making Bond disappear. And I do hope Q is a lot more on the ball in this one.

    Keep your thoughts on the trailer coming, folks. Cheers! :-bd
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    A favorite teacher of mine set us coursework as part of our Physics A-Levels. I brought mine in for him to have a quick run down, on a floppy disk. The categories were "Hypothesis" shortened to "Hypo", "Test" and "Analysis" shortened to "Anal". As he booted the floppy disk up, he saw "Anal", went "Oh!" and promptly opened it, only to be gravely disappointed.

    Bond in drag eh?

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited August 2015 Posts: 8,266
    Could anyone explain to me what sort of holiday Bond has been taking in Mexico? I just can't understand what he says.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    "long overdue holiday".
  • We interrupt these discussions regarding the SPECTRE trailer to briefly resume our series of reviews of Ian Fleming's original James Bond stories...

    QUANTUM OF SOLACE: A Short Review

    This is not actually a James Bond story. Bond is the audience for this story, narrated to him one night after a party by the Governor of Nassau, but he is not actually involved in the actions described within the story.

    Actually, that’s not an entirely accurate description. This is very much an Ian Fleming short story…and the true audience for it is his wife, Ann Fleming, and her circle of literary friends. The story is a vehicle for Fleming to express his dissatisfaction with the state of his own marriage, and as such it is somewhat distasteful in my mind for a stranger such as myself to be brought into the middle of what ought to be a private discussion between two consenting adults. But here we are: Fleming put Bond into the opening and closing of a story concerned at base with his own marital disharmony, and we must somehow pretend that it is fiction. In the final analysis, Fleming evidently decided that the amount of solace he and Ann could give to each was indeed something larger than zero; and the marriage continued in its own fashion until Fleming’s death from having lived too well a few years later.

    I feel compelled to note these passages, from the conclusion of the short story: “Bond laughed. Suddenly the violent dramatics of his own life seemed very hollow. The affair of the Castro rebels and the burned out yachts was the stuff of an adventure strip in a cheap newspaper. He had sat next to a dull woman at a dull dinner party and a chance remark had opened for him the book of real violence, of the Comedie Humaine where human passions are raw and real, where Fate plays a more authentic game than any Secret Service conspiracy designed by Governments.” And a few paragraphs later, the final lines of the tale: “He reflected on the conference he would be having in the morning with the Coast Guard and the FBI in Miami. The prospect, which had previously interested, even excited him, was now edged with boredom and futility.” I suspect that these are the feelings of Ian Fleming on display, rather than those of his fictional agent with a license to kill. As emotionally crippling as the human condition can sometimes be, I’d dare say that the tortures inflicted by Le Chiffre or Oddjob over the course of Bond’s adventures, are somewhat more hazardous to both body and soul than the indignities suffered by Mr. And Mrs. Phillip Masters.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited August 2015 Posts: 8,266
    @Thunderfinger thanks! @Beatles, I wasn't quite aware QoS was actually the state of affiars between Ian and Ann. It does put the story in a completely different light for sure!
    I can't quite concur with your conclusion though. I think, in particular for men (forgive me my sexism here), it's far 'easier' to withstand pain in the physical sense, then the mental battles and lack of right and wrong that come so emotionally laden we all know as inter-human relationships. Personally I'd prefer a broken arm over some of the quibbles I've recently had in my relationship. And that's putting it mildly.
  • @CommanderRoss: Sorry to hear about the "quibbles!"
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @CommanderRoss: Sorry to hear about the "quibbles!"
    Don't worry, it's called life, and we're trying to make the best of it. I just can relate very well to this story though, and as I've been wounded in the past as well, I know what I personally can handle best, and that's physical pain. The reason is that you know where it comes from, and you know what comes next. You even know it will end, you just don't know how. But time is, indeed, an ally there. And if someone else does it to you, it's easier to focus your pain upon the inflicting person, as in you set your mind to get back at that person.

    In a relationship, where love and dispair can go hand in hand, it's far more complicated and hazy, and your options are limited but you don't know how. Every uttered word can be a step towards the solution, or a leap the other way.



  • @Birdleson, definitely agreed on what a terrible move it would be to make SPECTRE behind Bond's death. Totally unnecessary and a ridiculous misuse of the old "this time it's personal!" thread (especially considering IT'S BEEN PERSONAL every time since LTK, with the possible exceptions of TND and DAD).

    Also (trailer spoiler warning) the "make it disappear" line from the trailer was an obvious DAD reference.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    (especially considering IT'S BEEN PERSONAL every time since LTK, with the possible exceptions of TND and DAD).
    .

    That is something that I bring up fairly often. It bother's me a lot. The only Fleming stories that could fall into that category are MR, FYEO and YOLT.

    Well, we really can't dock LTK or CR any points for it, since they were the first and a direct adaptation of a Fleming novel (which isn't one of the "it's personal" ones you listed, so not sure how to count that), respectively. I'd also lean against counting TND as one of the personal ones, since it's a straightforward romp, except for Paris having known Bond (if it were Natalya as originally rumored, I don't know how it would have been). DAD has a much more definite quest for revenge built in, although its abandoned in spectacular fashion.

    I'm also inclined to forgive GE and SF for their forays into Bond's emotional life, since they were well done, which leaves us with TWINE and QoS as the excessive ones, which I'd have a hard time disagreeing with. It also depends to a great extent about how they handle SPECTRE, and its role in Bond's path.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2015 Posts: 12,480
    I thought it was "make me disappear" in the trailer ...

    And I do think
    it is likely that Oberhauser or SPECTRE is at least partially responsible for Bond's parents' death. I'm now rather expecting that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Very cool, @Birdleson. :) My first - which I adored at first viewing (what a fantastic world it opened up for me!) - was Diamonds Are Forever. I was stunned right from the opening credits. I was 15, so give me a break. ;)

    As for SPECTRE, I think clearly we can see from the trailer that it is respectful towards the original Bond films. I don't think we will see an overabundance of nods just for nods' sake (like in DAD). I love the tone of the trailer; and it still makes the film feel intriguing while at the same time letting us know that it will hearken back to earlier films in mood, ambiance, etc. at times.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    @Birdleson, definitely agreed on what a terrible move it would be to make SPECTRE behind Bond's death. Totally unnecessary and a ridiculous misuse of the old "this time it's personal!" thread (especially considering IT'S BEEN PERSONAL every time since LTK, with the possible exceptions of TND and DAD).

    Also (trailer spoiler warning) the "make it disappear" line from the trailer was an obvious DAD reference.

    The line is, "make me disappear" and it's not a reference to DAD just Bond wanting to operate clandestinely without being tracked.
  • Even if the line is, "make me disappear," it comes right after the car is introduced, so it could be a reference to DAD either way. It could also be both a reference to Bond operating clandestinely (within the movie) and a reference to DAD (to us viewers).
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, I think we can pick up different references and nods in many ways. I don't take that line to be a DAD reference, but that's just me. I do think it is a very good trailer and gives us mood, excitement, action, and a feeling of everything just building up.

    I do think while this overall tone will have a lightness to it that has been missing in Craig's films so far, but I do think it is obvious now it will be a "personal" story to Bond, definitely. I don't mind that, if it's well written.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @Birdleson those thoughts are forbidden by the Geneva conventions. It's called torture..

    Anyway, I think @4Ever is right, when it comes to the spoiler. But we'll have to wait and see, it wouldn't surprise me if Mendes was actually putting us on the wrong foot. After all, he himself is a Bond fan, so we'll just have to put our hopes in that I suppose.

    one more thing though, thanks to that trailer, I remember how mediocre the film YOLT actually is, and how outstanding the music.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2015 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, @CommanderRoss, I agree on YOLT. Others really enjoy the film far more than I do. I enjoy the locations more than the actual Bond story being told, so that is a sure sign to me something is off. The music, though! Superb, possibly my very favorite Barry soundtrack. 8->

    I'd love to have had Young direct Moore in LALD and FYEO, to name two films that I feel would have benefited from a time warp fix re the director. But it's impossible. So I keep moving on, enjoying the fine flashes of inspirations other directors come up with at times and once in that long while an entire Bond film is so inspired (for me, TSWLM, GE and CR) ... and that keeps the franchise very much alive. Goldeneye was right for its time indeed, before people start jumping down my throat on that. Perfect timing; it was needed just then - well written, acted, and overall just beautifully done (though Pierce's Bond was even better, rock solid, in TND).

    Last call for Originals to voice an opinion on the full trailer! And I will announce what is up next in a couple of hours .. cheers! :-bd
  • Not given up at all! More on the way soon...I just have a lot of stuff going on in my personal life!
  • At this point, perhaps it would be useful for me to acknowledge some of the criteria I use in evaluating the Fleming short stories. The classical questions a critic must address are very much in my mind here: “What is the author’s intent? How well does he achieve it?” and “Is it actually a worthwhile goal to strive for?” In considering most of the Fleming Bond short stories, we must acknowledge that the author’s goal was to produce material that might be readily adapted into a James Bond 007 television show. I’d say that is an entirely valid goal…subsequent events have clearly proven that the best avenue to increase the sales of James Bond novels was for Bond to be adapted into a live action adventure series…and with the short stories of FAVTAK and FYEO, Fleming succeeded in this goal very nicely. The short story version of QoS, however, holds a very different intent on the author’s part. It would not (IMHO) have made a very good episode of a Bond television series, and as stated in my earlier review of QoS (tss) I don’t think his goal in writing that story was one I’m entirely comfortable with. While those of you who enjoy the story are welcome to continue holding your views, with this explanation of my own in place, let us proceed where we left off a few weeks back, with a review of the short story called…

    “Risico” This would have made a very nice episode of 007 the Television show. The characters involved are familiar to us from the movie version of FYEO: the competing smugglers Colombo and Kristatos, and the attempt by one to frame the other for his own misdeeds. Fraulein Lisl Baum is also present here in the short story, and here she manages to survive to the end of the tale. Colombo would have made an appropriate fourth for a bridge game involving Bond, Darko Kerim, and Marc Ange Draco: he’s the same sort of lovable rogue as the other two, and obviously cut from the same cloth as them if not quite as successful as either. We see a bit more of M and an explanation of the various bees in his bonnet. Otherwise there’s not much more to say about this story: the twist in the plot line is that we are told to trust Kristatos and be prepared to oppose Colombo when in fact the opposite is true. In this story, the CIA is the source of the inaccurate information under which Bond is operating. One of the most interesting things to me about the short story versions of Risico and For Your Eyes Only is the skillful way both stories are seamlessly combined, embellished with an unused piece of Live and Let Die (the novel) and expanded with the extraneous characters of Bibi Dahl and the villainous Locque to produce the movie script to FYEO. It’s a very clever method of using various bits of Fleming material to form an appreciable single tale, and the result is one of my favorite 007 movies featuring the particular talents of Mr. Roger Moore.

    “The Hildebrand Rarity” This is one of the largest extant bits of unused Fleming still available to the movie producers. They’ve used the name Milton Krest, and his boat the Wavekrest, in LTK…and his “Corrector” was also used in the same film, albeit given into the hands of Franz Sanchez…but still, most of this story (including the title) remains up for grabs. I’m not sure how it could be utilized in a Bond movie, though… For one thing, Bond is taking on a freelance “assignment” with a few days off from his duties in the British Secret Service. For another thing, Bond almost immediately sets out to ruin the designs of his supposed employer. For still another thing, Bond the “stupid policeman” is actually somewhat complicit in allowing Krest’s probable murderer, his abused wife Liz, to escape being charged with his death. For a variety of reasons, this is one of the more interesting Bond short stories, simply because it confounds the audience’s expectations so brilliantly, while also making Bond the possessor of some unexpectedly progressive sympathies. The fulcrum of this story, the titular “Hildebrand Rarity,” is a rare fish…one that Milton Krest is willing to poison a small portion of the Indian Ocean to obtain. Krest is a thoroughly unpleasant type: a bully, a wife beater, a tax cheat, and an unrepentant polluter of the ocean before such behavior was ever considered objectionable. Fleming’s love of nature, so clear in his descriptions of flora and fauna throughout the Bond books, takes full flower here…and I suspect Fleming might have demonstrated some significant ecological sympathies if he had lived to see the movement take root in western society. At any rate, Krest snags his target fish despite Bond’s efforts to prevent it, and proceeds to celebrating by getting drunk, insulting Bond and various others in the process, and finally retiring below decks on the Wavekrest with the obvious intent of whipping his wife using the tail of a sting ray, aka “The Corrector.” Later that night, Bond finds Krest dead, his prize fish stuffed into his mouth, and foul play clearly indicated. Although Fleming makes a point of giving us a second (fairly improbable) suspect, Mrs. Krest is pretty obviously the guilty party…and whoever is at fault, Bond takes great pains to cover up the evidence so that any reasonable coroner will be likely to declare “death by misadventure.” The result of all this is an impressive, unusual short story that stays entirely within the “rules” of a James Bond adventure, even though 007 is off the job throughout most of it. Obviously, Bond does not see himself as any sort of policemen, stupid or otherwise. Instead, he is a freelance arbiter of justice, and Milton Krest clearly deserved to die while his wife deserved to be free of her abusive husband. Whatever else one may say about “The Hildebrand Rarity,”one must surely acknowledge one thing: it would have made a damned good episode of a James Bond television series!

  • The Fleming short stories are interesting in large part because of the different "takes" we get on Bond..."Octopussy and The Living Daylights" are up next, and both of them have some very interesting variations on the character of 007! I'll be examing TLD first, then "Property of a Lady" and "007 in New York." OP will be coming last, for what I think are obvious reasons...
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Imagine Young directing Moore in LIVE AND LET DIE in 1966, with those sensibilities and that classic EON team.
    Sounds pretty awesome to me. In a perfect world, Sir Rog would have started his tenure earlier (and ended it sooner as well) but I certainly wouldn't want to give up any Connery appearances. I suspect you wouldn't either!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    great reviews @Beatles! looking foreward to the rest!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Fleming stories ~ That's a big YES. :>
    We are still doing all of the Fleming novels and stories - but we will take small breaks to ALSO discuss things like the full trailer. But when mini reviews are done, we post them right away. All comments for the Fleming stories are very welcome! Please chime in, folks. Originals and nonoriginals, too.

    The Originals (older fans who first saw Connery as Bond during a Bond film's first theatrical relese) are the foundation and core of this thread. But we for sure want many other people to give their thoughts and opinions here, too.

    I will be the slowest to review the novels, but I will do all of them (which will undoubtedly take me more months). I love Fleming's writing and greatly appreciate reading them again (it's been several years for me).

    Meanwhile, thanks very much @Beatles for your excellent post discussing criteria you user for the short stories as well as your take on those. You are always insightful and you never fail to help me think of something I did not originally think about. That's great. I appreciate your, and @Birdleson's, great eye for detail and the thought you put behind every review you write here. Excellent work, gentlemen. And I'm very happy to have @CommanderRoss giving us his reviews, too. Many thanks!

    Other folks, too - please give us your thoughts, comments, and any mini review you'd like to do for Fleming's Bond stories.

    Pax ... :)>-
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    *** NOTE: The ongoing mini reviews and discussion of the Fleming novels and short stories will continue apace throughout this time, however we will pause now & also dive right into Craig's James Bond films***


    SPECTRE is almost here, folks - the final countdown has well and truly begun! :-bd

    Therefore, I suggest this is the best time now to take some time to reflect back on the Craig era Bond films. All that has led us to SPECTRE - and how they connect.

    Daniel Craig's James Bond films ~ B-)
    CASINO ROYALE
    QUANTUM OF SOLACE
    SKYFALL


    All Originals please chip in, and all non-Originals, please do join us! This is not exclusive to Originals' opinions or experience - everybody is welcome to comment, long or briefly. This is the perfect time to share our opinion and theories on these films in particular, as SPECTRE approaches (yes, we are haunted - but in a good way!). ;)

    So let's discuss, dissect, and give our thoughts & feelings regarding these 3 films and how we feel certain aspects of them will connect to SPECTRE (or how we hope there will be a connection). Let's tackle each film in chronological order.

    This is NOT really a review of these films - let's look at this as all one big prelude to SPECTRE. Please comment any way you'd like.

    Here are 3 questions to just keep in the back of your mind as you think of each Daniel Craig Bond film:

    1) What do you see happening in Bond's journey (Craig's Bond's journey)? (His professional and personal journey)

    2) What do you expect (or hope) to be in SPECTRE that will relate to the past 3 Bond films?

    3) What do you hope will NOT happen?

    You may compare all 3 films at the same time, you may comment on just one of the films as we go along - all your choice.

    Yes, we are speculating - but based on looking back at CR, QOS, and SF under the magnifying glass again, finding those threads. :-B

    NO REAL SPOILERS, PLEASE for those who have read the leaked script or may have another source for spoilers. But you can certainly give your thoughts and point out the things you believe run through all 3 films, as well as what you hope SPECTRE turns out to be, without divulging genuine spoilers. We can talk about what we liked (or did not like) in Craig's portrayal of Bond in each film, or the scripts, etc. But this is not meant as a strict review, just a talking point to get us to link all of Craig's Bond films to SPECTRE. What do you think? Any discussion along these lines is fine.

    Thanks! And I will start us off (in a short while) with refreshing our memories a bit about CASINO ROYALE.

    I will be copying from SirHenry's original trivia and production notes (CR's is found at page 62 of this thread) as well as SirHenry's own opinions on some things in Casino Royale. I'm not copying all of his splendid notes - but please do skip back to page 62 here to read it all. As all of SirHenry's writing & sharing of information he researched, it's a very satisfying and interesting read. >:D<
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    First up, in this look back at the Craig era Bond films ... this is all intended to refresh your memory, whet your appetite, give you background info and interesting trivia to motivate your thinking; the opening credits, music, etc ... and all of the following is SirHenry's original words ...
    (some bolding is mine)


    CASINO ROYALE
    Sir Henry said:

    Bond in CR - We are reminded often during the movie that this new Bond is a killing machine who seems to enjoy it more than the portrayals of Moore and Brosnan, whose Bonds tended to see the act as a regrettable but necessary aspect of their position. Like Connery and Dalton, there's little to no regret on this score. This is a Bond who is new to his job, rough around the edges and far from the polished product we've come to expect, but he already has the skills of seduction that made the character the envy of men everywhere, and along the way we see his tastes in fine clothing, hotels, cars, and women slowly morphing him closer to the ideal. Most importantly of all, Bond learns that his job is full of deception and that knowing who to trust can mean the difference between life, love, and death in a business where only the strong survive. Craig's wide range of acting talent is showcased here as we see Bond flushed with true love, deeply angered by betrayal, and profoundly heartbroken all in the last 15 minutes of the film. His last scene with Mr. White with the Bond theme slowly rising in the background, introducing himself, just reeks with greatness and still puts a huge smile on my face every time.

    Considering I was one of those who initially rejected Craig's hire I freely admit here that I was dead wrong about Craig, a powerful and impressive debut all the way around, and one that ranks with Connery and Dalton's for "wow factor"- 4.5/5
    **
    TRIVIA, PRODUCTION NOTES & MORE ~

    - First appearance by Daniel Craig as James Bond. Craig actually rejected the part of James Bond a year before as he had felt that the series had settled into a standard formula. He changed his mind when he read the finished script.

    - Daniel Craig's role in the British thriller Layer Cake is said to have been the role that first attracted the attention of Barbara Broccoli regarding him as a potential candidate to be the next James Bond. DVD and video rentals of the movie went up after the announcement Daniel Craig would be the new James Bond. The Bondesque line at the end of the film has Craig say "My name? If you knew that, you'd be as clever as me.", evoking the famous catchphrase "The name is Bond, James Bond". During the selection process, Broccoli saw him in Steven Spielberg's Munich and became totally convinced that he was the right man for the job.

    - The announcement of Daniel Craig as the new James Bond was made on October 14th, 2005, aboard the HMS President, in London. On that same day, former James Bond Sir Roger Moore was celebrating his 78th birthday.

    - Daniel Craig is the first actor to play James Bond who is younger than the series itself. He is also the first actor to be under the age of forty and play James Bond since George Lazenby, and the first actor to play James Bond in the EON Productions official series who was not cast by founding producer Cubby Broccoli.

    - Craig said he was shopping for groceries when he got the call from Barbara Broccoli that he had won the James Bond role. She apparently told him, "Over to you, kiddo." Craig left the groceries behind and celebrated with martinis.

    - To prepare for the role, Craig read all of Ian Fleming's novels and talked with Mossad and British Secret Service agents who had served as advisers when he worked on Munich.

    Principal photography for the 21st installment began on January 3rd, 2006 with primary filming occurring at Barrandov Studios in the capital of the Czech Republic, Prague. Additional location shoot sites are in the Bahamas, Venice and other parts of Italy, and England. Ten days after the production wrapped 7 months later on July 20th, 2006, the 007 stage at Pinewood again catches fire and while repairable, the stage is again entirely rebuilt for future adventures. Budgeted for $150 million US, the film is released to three different theaters in London on November 14th, 2006 and would go on to easily break all prior Bond records for attendance and box office receipts, earning to date $599 million worldwide. Many of the early media critics quickly came around with mostly very positive reviews and rightfully hailed the film as one of the best ever in the storied history of the franchise, as did many fans who ultimately decided to judge Craig as Bond for themselves and not based on appearance nor the opinion of others, proving the producers decision to hire Craig to be the right one as well as launching Craig into international stardom.

    - Usual writers Purvis and Wade are joined by Paul Haggis and begin working on the screenplay in 2004, with the aim of following Fleming's 1953 novel as closely as possible, thus returning Bond to a darker character more reminiscent of Connery and Dalton as opposed to Moore and Brosnan. Despite public statements from popular director Quentin Tarantino that he'd like to create a black and white "film noir" of the film with Brosnan in the lead, the producers ask GoldenEye director Martin Campbell to return and direct the latest incarnation based on his 1995 effort.

    - Writer Paul Haggis's main contribution was to rewrite the climax of the film.

    - Producers Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson mandated to the films writers Neal Purvis and Robert Wade that two particular story elements from the original Ian Fleming novel must be included in the film's screenplay: the first was the torture of James Bond by Le Chiffre and the second was the novel's final line where James Bond says, "The bitch is dead".

    - The producers did not like the final scene in the novel as it was too melodramatic and opted for a more cinematic finale as in the movie. This involves changing Vesper's death scene. In the novel, she commits suicide through sleeping pill overdose.

    - Eva Green was one of three French finalists for the role of Vesper Lynd. She beat out Cécile De France to land the role, The other finalist, Audrey Tautou, backed out because she was still working and filming The Da Vinci Code. Principal photography was underway when she was finally chosen. With her appearance, Eva Green became the fourth French actress to play the lead Bond girl. The others were Claudine Auger (Thunderball), Carole Bouquet (For Your Eyes Only), and Sophie Marceau (The World Is Not Enough). Corinne Cléry had the role of the second lead Bond girl in Moonraker and has been incorrectly identified on the MI6 site as the 5th French "lead" Bond girl, that honor went to Lois Chiles who is from Houston, Texas, USA. PRODUCTION NOTES-

    - In 1999 Sony paid MGM $5 million to settle the $40 million lawsuit that MGM had brought against Sony because of Sony's intentions to remake Casino Royale. In the resulting settlement Sony agreed to hand over all of its rights to the Bond character and Casino Royale to MGM for $10 million and the rights to Spider-Man. Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson didn't secure EON's rights to Casino Royale until 2000. In an ironic twist of fate, Sony bought MGM in 2005, and in 2006 released a new serious adaptation of Casino Royale anyway.

    - This is the first official James Bond film to be co-produced by Columbia Pictures, owned by Sony Pictures Entertainment; this is a result of Sony's acquisition of MGM along with Bond rights co-owner United Artists. Columbia Pictures had originally co-produced and distributed the unofficial 1967 spoof.

    - 21st official James Bond movie in the EON Productions franchise, the first to feature Daniel Craig as James Bond, the fifth to feature Judi Dench as M and its the 23rd James Bond movie overall.

    - The first film in the series to show Bond as a rookie in MI6. In all the other films, he had long been a spy.

    - A James Bond origin story like this had been touted to be the first Bond film after Roger Moore retired. A first draft screenplay was written where James Bond was a young man in the Royal Navy. However, Albert R. Broccoli rejected the concept believing at the time that the audience wasn't really interested in a young James Bond. This movie has been made and released on the heels of the Batman reboot Batman Begins and the Star Wars prequels.

    - The four year hiatus between the release of Die Another Day and Casino Royale is the second longest gap between Bond films since the series first started in 1962. The 6 years between the release of Licence to Kill and GoldenEye still holds that dubious record.

    - First James Bond movie to be based on a full Ian Fleming novel since Moonraker, a gap of 27 years. It was also the first time since The Living Daylights that a James Bond movie has used an original Ian Fleming title.

    - Much ado was made at the film's release about Craig's buff body. Being in such prime condition was not new to the actor, as at one point he had been a semi-professional rugby player.

    - First James Bond movie in the EON Productions official series not to have a major pre-credits action stunt sequence since The Man with the Golden Gun.

    - The black-and-white opening of the film was an idea of Director of Photography Phil Meheux, who conceived it so as to give a surprise to viewers as well as a nod to The Spy Who Came in from the Cold and Reflections in a Golden Eye. The opening sequence required six thousand feet (one hour and six minute's worth, at 24 fps) of Eastman Double-X 5222 black-and-white negative film. At the time of its release, this movie is the only James Bond film in the official series to have a significant sequence filmed in black and white. However, some of the shots of James Bond in the gun-barrel sequences in the early films were in black-and-white. Moreover, the 1954 James Bond TV episode Casino Royale is completely in black-and-white.

    - First Eon Productions James Bond film in the official Series to mark a number of firsts for the series: First to have a major black and white sequence; first not to feature the Miss Moneypenny character nor the gun barrel walk; first to have the gun barrel sequence start after the opening sequence and not before; first to have a radically different opening gun barrel sequence - the graphics of the gun barrel view are markedly different; first to have a significant animated opening sequence since Dr. No; first EON Productions James Bond movie not to feature the Q character since Live and Let Die; first James Bond movie in the EON Productions official series where the movie ends with James Bond alone and without a leading Bond Girl with him.

    - This is only the second time that an M character's home has been shown in an official EON Productions James Bond film. The first was in On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    - Poker playing was common amongst cast and crew on the set, even after production had wrapped. This however is not new for a James Bond movie. Sir Roger Moore and Cubby played and bet on backgammon during breaks in filming. Many of the James Bond movies have been known to have cast and crew participate in some high-stakes gambling.

    - Daniel Craig's suits and tuxedos were made by Italian fashion house Brioni (their logo can briefly be seen on the suit bag for the tuxedo that Vesper gives him). His shirts and neckties were made by the British company Turnbull and Asser. In addition, he wears a sunglasses by Persol, cufflinks by S.T. Dupont, braces/suspenders by Albert Thurston, polos & t-shirts by Sunspel, shoes by Converse, John Lobb, & Nike, Ted Baker pants, La Perla swim trunks, and an Omega wristwatch. Brioni also dressed every player at the Casino Royale poker table, and the ones worn by Bond are rumored to have cost $6,000 each.

    - The brown leather jacket worn by Daniel Craig in Miami was made by Giorgio Armani and was rumored to cost $4,000 US each.

    - The three-piece suit worn by Bond at the end of the film is a navy version of the gray suit worn by Sean Connery in Goldfinger.
    THE OPENING CREDITS-

    - Title designer Daniel Kleinman was inspired by the cover of the 1953 first edition of the original novel, which featured Ian Fleming's design of a playing card bordered by eight red hearts dripping in blood.

    - It was a conscious decision to leave the semi-naked girls out of the opening credits as the James Bond persona is not effectively established until the end of the movie.

    - During the opening credits animation, there is a quick shot of Vesper's face on a card that is a combination of the queen of hearts and the queen of spades. This is a foreshadowing of the plot: the queen of hearts is a symbol of love, and James Bond falls in love with her; the queen of spades (also known as "the bitch" is some card games, such as Hearts) is a symbol of bad luck, and Vesper betrays James.

    - Daniel Craig as James Bond uses a Walther P99 pistol in this movie. It's not the first time he's used it. In "Lara Croft: Tomb Raider", Craig used one in the "Tomb of the Dancing Light". The holster in which Bond conceals his Walther P99 sidearm in is a Vega IB339 Inside-the-Waistband (or IWB) holster.

    PROMOTIONAL NOTES-

    - As of 2007, the highest-grossing movie of the Bond-franchise.

    - The movie was delivered to some theaters under the codename "Rough Skins", and to others under the codename "Change At Midnight".

    - Sir Roger Moore was reportedly so impressed with the film that he went out and bought a DVD copy of it.

    - The title song "You Know My Name" is the first theme song since the earlier James Bond movie Octopussy to have a different song title to that of the film. David Arnold and Chris Cornell found the Casino Royale title to be problematic and requested that their song would not be forced to us it. Chris Cornell is the first male singer to perform the James Bond title song since A-Ha in The Living Daylights and Duran Duran in A View to a Kill. He is the first American male singer to perform a James Bond opening credits song.

    - Chris Cornell has said inspirations for writing the song "You Know My Name" came from Paul McCartney's theme for Live and Let Die, John Barry's theme for Thunderball as sung by Tom Jones, and from Daniel Craig himself after watching early rushes of Craig in action during filming.

    - "You Know My Name" debuted in the US Charts on December 9. 2006 where it went to the No. #79 spot. The song does not appear on the film's soundtrack. This is the first time in the history of the official series that the title song has not been included on the soundtrack. Chris Cornell, who had written the song lyrics and half of the music with Arnold, had negotiated the majority rights and decided that he liked the song so much that he wanted to issue it on his own label and use it on his new album "Carry On" which he was also working on and recording at that time. Subsequent Bond music compilation albums have featured the more orchestral film version of the song.

    - Though the iconic James Bond theme is not fully heard until the final scene of the film, a few bars of it can be heard faintly at the end of the scene where Bond wins Dimitrios' vintage Aston Martin while playing poker, and when Bond's plane is first landing in the Bahamas. According to David Arnold in the Jon Burlingame "Music Of James Bond" book, the idea was deliberate. After testing the theme against key moments in the film when he would have used it for a regular type of adventure, he stated that "it dissolved any sense of danger, any sense that there was really anything going wrong. The other argument was that he's not "James Bond" yet (the idea of the movie was to build to that moment), so why are we playing the theme?". In response to the concept, Bond theme writer Monty Norman reflected that he thought "Arnold did an excellent job of teasing the theme throughout the film and finally arranging a terrific version as the climax. (However) the subtlety of the idea eluded quite a few people".
    Connery was one of those, noting in 2008 "I did have one reservation. They sort of diluted the Bond musical theme, which you only hear at the very end. When I heard it, I thought, 'Oh, that's what I've been missing'".


    FLEMING AND OTHER REFERENCES-

    - Ian Fleming started writing the first ever James Bond novel Casino Royale on his Imperial typewriter at his home "Goldeneye", Jamaica between January 15-17, 1952 and completed it on Tuesday 18th March 1952. Dr. No began filming almost exactly ten years later on January 16, 1962.

    - Ian Fleming celebrated the completion of his Casino Royale novel's first draft by purchasing a gold-plated typewriter. Pierce Brosnan reportedly bought the typewriter a few years ago for $52,000 U.S.

    - The first lines of the original Ian Fleming novel read: "The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning." The last lines read: "This is 007 speaking. This is an open line. It's an emergency. Can you hear me? Pass this on at once. 3030 was a double, working for Redland. 'Yes, dammit, I said "was". The bitch is dead now."

    - Ian Fleming once said on writing the novel: "Writing about 2,000 words in three hours every morning, Casino Royale dutifully produced itself. I wrote nothing and made no corrections until the book was finished. If I had looked back at what I had written the day before, I might have despaired."

    - The way Bond orders his first vodka martini is lifted directly from the Ian Fleming novels.

    - Ian Fleming received three offers for the film rights to his novel during 1954. Producer/director Gregory Ratoff bought the rights to the novel in May 1954 for $600. It was a six month option and Ratoff took this to CBS whom produced and broadcast this one hour episode for Climax! shown that year, with American Barry Nelson playing "Jimmy Bond". CBS then purchased the rights to the novel from Ratoff for $1000. John Shepridge negotiated the sale of the film and television rights in 1954. Before the sale, the novel had not been successful, and was even retitled and Americanized for its paperback issue. Fleming also needed money. Twelve months later, and after the TV screening, Ratoff bought Casino Royale outright in perpetuity for an additional $6000. Both sales including the option and the buy-out are considered to have been sold too cheaply and were two sales that Ian Fleming later regretted. With the money from the larger sale, Ian Fleming bought a Thunderbird car at the cost of £3000. Gregory Ratoff passed away on 14 December 1960. His widow in 1961 sold the rights to Charles K. Feldman for $75,000. Feldman would go on to make the 1967 spoof of Casino Royale and it would not be made as an EON Productions film for almost another forty years.

    [SirHenry asked the following question and several people responded; this is his follow up on that question]

    Did the noticeable lack of the Bond theme in the film bother you, or did you get the concept of giving little hints at it when the rookie does something Bondian until the end, where the Bond we know emerges triumphant?

    By a 9 to 4 margin, the voters seemed to understand what Arnold was doing when they first viewed the film. The occasional subtle hint of the theme as the rookie Bond succeeded was apparent to them and they applauded not only that, but the soundtrack itself. Which I might add was John Barry's view as well. I was in the minority who it finally dawned on in the end that this is what Arnold was doing, but to be fair I was so engrossed in finally seeing a version of the film up to my expectations, and with a new Bond who exceeded them. And what an incredible moment it was, the best rendition since John Barry and it gave me goosebumps that I still get every time I watch it. Arnold has nothing to be ashamed of nor did he miss any opportunity- his music properly paid respect to the legacy of John Barry that a Bond soundtrack should and did not do in 1995, and when the master himself stated that he could not have done a better soundtrack, any arguments against hold no water and are shaky to say the least.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    So there it is - just the kind of info and reflection to get us started on our look at Casino Royale, as we view it as the first step that has led us to SPECTRE.

    Please feel free to comment in any way you'd like. Cheers!
    :-bd
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