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Just making it more like Wood's novelization of his screenplay would have made it a top fiver for me.
Agreed - removed the silliness and gave Karl Stromberg and Jaws more of a background and even the Soviets had more of a role.
Most of my thoughts for improvement lie with the movie version. Fleming's material is something I loathe to criticize and always defer to his thoughts in this respect.
Well, so,me say that Wood is the only worthy successor to Fleming besides Amis. Wood successfully aped the Fleming style and both books are different in places from their film counterparts. To sum up, well worth getting hold of.
I'll be honest since you mentioned Wood's MR novelization- I'm not at all interested. But I'll get around to that as a future thesis when the time comes.
I was 6 years old when I first saw TSWLM. I'm 37 now. It was the very first Bond film I ever saw and I loved it. And I still love it. It remains my favourite of the lot. The childhood memories that come flooding back every time I watch it fill me with glee; the excitement of seeing a Lotus Esprit metamorphisise into a submarine, being scared shitless when Jaws tricks Kalba into the phone booth and the terror in his eyes as Jaws bites him, Atlantis rising up out of the ocean.
Granted there may be better films but TSWLM means so much to me. It's also why Sir Rog is my favourite Bond, not the best Bond, but my favourite.
And there's no doubt without either, I wouldn't be the fan I am today and wouldn't be sat here writing this now.
I'm about to write something for my blog on how Wood's MR novelisation differs from the MR film version in one surprisingly significant way - you can see what when I get the first new article uploaded on The Bondologist Blog soon.
Agreed. A great read indeed!
You missed being an original by about 5 years so you can't do reviews that count in the ratings, but your views are welcomed as is your input into these thesis' of mine. Thunderball is the film that got me started (1968) at the age of about 7, so I definitely understand everyone's passion regarding their first Bond film that they loved and made them a fan.
So, should we put you down for "theory a"?
@Dragonpol- thanks, but it's the Spy novelization I want to hear about. Even with some difference between Wood's novel and screenplay, there is no possibility it could be superior to Fleming in any way, shape, or form. I'll read it of course, but there's just no way. Again, it's not the right time to discuss that thesis or the others I have in mind, which in MR's case would be quite a few I could think of.
One point regarding the soundtracks I've found on YouTube: what I've found for Spy only included Hamlisch's compositions, none of the classical music that worked so well in the Atlantis water scenes, none of the LOA or DR. Z bits. And it's the brief use of Lara's Theme from Dr. Zhivago that I want to look at here. In Spy, a quick snippet of LT is used for the ringtone on Anya's telephone. At the time I first saw this film, I thought, "Oh how cool! She has a personalized telephone ring!" (Let's remember, in 1977 personalized ringtones were nowhere near as commonplace as they are now.) When I watched TSWLM again just recently for the purpose of this review, I thought: "Waitaminute! A Russian officer isn't going to be kindly disposed to Dr. Zhivago, movie OR novel versions!! She wouldn't have that music as her ringtone!" Again, let's consider the times. The novel version of Dr. Zhivago was not received kindly by Russian authorities when it was first released in the '50s; the movie was similarly banned there upon its release in the early '60s. Even as late as 1977, I don't think an officer of the Russian army would have been likely to have a personal connection to that music. This point may have been a minor amusement to Marvin Hamlisch upon the release of TSWLM, to me in 2013 it was a point that briefly brought me out of the spell so much of the film wove so effectively.
You really need to read it first. It's not better than Fleming - I didn't say that! It is worthy of him, though. Seek it out and read it, then we can discuss it properly.
Great point about Dr. Zhivago, which as I understand it was banned in both movie and novel form by the Russians until 1994. Thank you for that, as now I remember my father saying that it's inclusion didn't fit for the same reasons. I've never seen the film nor read the novel and don't really care if I ever do. He laughed, of course, because he said it would piss them off to no end that their top secret agent would even acknowledge the song- it definitely seemed to be an intentional poke at them.
I remember the tiny bit of Lara's Theme, but I didn't find the music jarring - I didn't know Russia had banned it. Ha! That theme song was extremely popular, and I remember both of my parents just loving it (including my dad, which surprised me). It seems to have been a bit of a sly joke on Hamlisch's part.
I'll get back in about a day with my further thoughts concerning the film and Sir Henry's thesis.
I have mixed feelings about all the Rog films post TMWTGG. It was only Hamilton that managed to keep the frivolous Rog Saintish persona in check.
Spy was Rog's coming out film, where he took full ownership of the character, his way. In that sense it's maybe his most relaxed and confident effort. He was enjoying his own personal Bond-prime, although I much prefer his more restrained work in LALD and Gun.
Still, Spy is a magnificently realized Bond film. It's escapist Bond on steroids and that is my preferred Bond cuppa. Moore is even quite good in parts. What he has in common with the Connery portrayal is that they both played Bond with an unflappable swagger. No personal drama issues for these two Bonds. Both reveled in the character. Moore just wasn't as credibly menacing, so he compensated (overcompensated?) in the charm department.
My main Spy quibbles are..... yes Jaws is one of them. He was too cartoonish. He should have been modeled more on Oddjob ie emphasis on threatening and only seek humour within this context but never at the expense of his dangerousness.
Actually Jaws himself isn't too bad in Spy. He looses it more in MR when he becomes an ally (groan).
The problem isn't so much Jaws himself, or Kiels portrayal, but morethe scenarios that he is used in, such as the pyramid van escapades.
The Bond and Anya van-hijinks with Jaws at the pyramids, is to this day IMO, some of the most grevious slap-sticky comedy ever to be endured in a Bond film.
Lewis Gilbert or Cubby or someone, should have put a stop to it, but alas the Rog had already been let loose .
Those are really my only quibbles...these occasional degenerations into silliness.
The camp I love, but Bond camp needs to be tempered with palpable danger and suspense, otherwise its cartoonish. It need an actor of Connery's dangerous gravitas to ground it. Moore wasn't always up to this task. He was guilty of the odd wink-wink. Connery always kept it real, but he was a better actor than Moore.
It's just like the worst thing a comedian can do is break from character. He can't laugh at himself. It spoils the illusion.
Spy with the exception of the worst Jaws moments, I think pulls off the Bondian escapist camp vibe quite well.
It really is a classic Bond film IMO. It reeks of the fantasical world of 007, which is a good thing. :)
@Timmer- oh, I think the MR brand of camp far exceeds Spy. The most hilarious scene at the Pyramids has to be when Bond and Anya bump into each other and up comes the threat of that dreaded karate chop! :)) . I can actually deal with most of that scene and I find the "Egyptian builders" quip to be very funny. The truly stupid parts here for me come from Jaws dropping the block on his foot (let's see, he gets kneed in the crotch to no effect but drop something on his foot and he makes a pain face?) and the display he makes in tearing up the telephone van. I always thought, do Gilbert and Wood know what they want Jaws to do here? After he dropped the block on his foot, it was fairly obvious that Jaws himself was the camp and it only got worse from there as far as his character- about 2 years too long of that. I thought it was a waste of a henchman who had all the potential you could want to have been Bond's most dreaded and iconic adversary. Truthfully, when I saw Kiel show up in the Moonraker PTS, I just knew it was going to be bad. And was it ever!
I forgot about Bach's poser karate chop. :)) She moves about as well as the middle aged Rog. Were there ever two less threatening screen secret-agents? And these two characters were supposed to be the elite of the elite; triple X and 007. Groan.
Bach could have been a decent Bond-girl if she wasn't cast as a secret agent with "skills"
She did fill out that evening gown nicely. A more decorative role would have suited her "talents" better.
She was much more authentic in her next role as a mute cavewoman running around scantily clad, escaping dinosaurs and the like. Caveman, I believe the film was called. She met her hubby Ringo on that shoot too, and they lived happily ever after, enjoying re-runs of her fine work in Spy and their combined efforts in Caveman.
Agreed, the producers just couldn't resist the temptation to play Jaws for laughs though.
The Oddjob approach is what would have worked. Oddjob was tapped for humour too, but never at the expense of his malevolence. Oddjob's crushing of the golfball, his grunting, some of his facial expressions. He wasn't devoid of some lighter moments, but his deadly menace was always present. He was never likeable or sympathetic.
What kills the Van scene at the pyramids IMO is the smarmy dialogue from Rog while one-note, expressionless Bach, the cyborg "actress" tries to start the car, while the lunatic whacko henchmen pulls the van apart. The whole scene was played for laughs. It generated zilch in the way of danger or suspense. Rog acted like it was all a big joke.
Compare with Sean's epic final battle with Oddjob. Oddjob is frustratingly indestructible. It is kinda funny, but still the danger is real. It screamed, how the hell is Bond going to beat this guy. This is a real tight spot here. We heaved a sigh of relief when Bond finally, suckered Oddjob into reaching for his hat. Zap.Aieee!
Meanwhile, back to Rog, Anya, van and loony tunes on the roof. I'm squirming in my seat fretting.... when will it end?! Please make it stop! No danger, no suspense :((
Yep, and when Jaws appeared flapping his wings in the MR pts and especially when he crashed into the big top, I knew parts of this movie were going to be real chair-squirmy.
To be honest, normally I don't either, but I must say here Burgess isn't letting his own ego get in the way of the story. He just explains the literary value of Fleming's work, comparing Bond to Sherlock Holmes. Telling about how Fleming refers to so many real life/ historical situations, claiming his books are far more intelligent then many think. Interestingly enough in 1987 he claims Bond isn't as worldwide a succes as Sherlock as, obviously, there is (in his opinion) little love for Bond in the Soviet Union. Ho wrong he would be in a couple of years' time!
Back to Spy. Am I the only one with little love for the title song? I love the soundtrack, indeed especially the classical bits. An effect later only bettered by the Tosca scene in QoS. But not the title track. I find the song boring and the lyrics to have little to no value..
Hello guys. Yes, @SirHenry, you are right. I'd choose theory No. 1, as I believe that the 'Barry sound' is as much part of Bond as the tux, hot women, super stunts and exotic locations, etc. I like Arnold's music as he pays homage to Barry putting in little cues here and there that just sound right. I don't think anyone should wholesale rip off Barry but there should be that 'sound' - and I don't mean just sticking in the Bond Theme in here and there.
I know many do not have Spy in their top ten. I do.
For me, The Spy Who Loved Me is a great James Bond film, one of my favorites. Yes, it is in my top ten. When I say "favorite" I do not mean that as a strict film critic, looking at it artistically and critically. I mean it as one of the films I enjoy the most and that I believe is a good movie, well done. It is not a guilty pleasure for me; it is all pleasure, as a lifelong Bond fan. I can find something to change in every Bond film, but I may be more flexible than many fans. I do not mind different kinds of Bonds - I appreciate each actor who has played Bond (with Lazenby being the only real exception). I like humor in Bond, but I like the serious moments, too. For Spy, I think Roger Moore came fully into his own as Bond and hit his stride. I think his very best performance was in For Your Eyes Only, but Spy made me love Bond movies again and I was a very happy fan leaving the theater. Plus, I had liked Moore as Bond before - a lot - but I really fell in love with him in this film. This is the one that made me a huge Roger Moore as Bond fan for life.
Spy is fun! It's spectacular, adventurous, exciting, and never a dull moment. I find Spy to be balanced rather nicely when it comes to humor, so no it is not too camp for me. Some of the humor is broader, but I don't mind it in this film. It doesn't bug me at all that Moore takes the flippant approach as Jaws rips up the van. I liked the brief music from Lawrence of Arabia as Bach and Moore trudged over the sand dunes in evening wear. It made me smile. I do wish they had showed some bloody effects from Jaws killings, and I did not like some of the soundtrack (I was never a disco gal) - again, there is always some change I would make in a film. We all have that, don't we? When I look up "camp" in the dictionary I see a still from Moonraker (take your pick; there are plenty to choose from).
Spy has some great action, stunning locations, beautiful people (Roger looks fantastic and Bach is gorgeous), a memorable theme song (I love Carly's voice!) and a good story. It feels like a breath of fresh air coming after TMWTGG. And I can watch it over and over. It is a movie I feel that I would like to actually be in - it looks like that much fun, without being over the top.
So that is why I am going with theory A. Every fan has their own opinion, their own reasoning, and their favorites. The Spy Who Loved Me is one of mine.
Looking forward to Moonraker review.
I've lost track of what the theses are, but based on what @foreverBonded said, I think I must be Thesis A.
back to Spy. Again. I love camp, but I demand serious camp. Camp with real danger. I don't like the wink-wink stuff. Moore IMO didn't do camp well. The wink-wink worked with TV Batman series and brazen spoof stuff such as Flint or Helm.
3rd season Man From Uncle was tarnished too by degenerating into silly camp, as opposed to dangerous camp. Uncle recovered in the 4th season though
But with OO7, you need deadly dangerous Bonds like Connery or Lazenby to balance and ground the camp. Bond films must always feel dangerous IMO and each of the first 7 films, pulled this off. And yes all of the 60's Bond movies did have camp elements, even FRWL. Even LALD and TMWTGG IMO found the balance for the most part, but with Spy we saw the first real forays into Bond directly engaging in wink-wink, and there was no going back.
I remember the '70s. The Connery vs Moore debate raged. It was a hot topic. They were two very different Bonds (even if now their similarities are more apparent, when you compare with what has followed) But back then most filmgoers were in one camp or the other. But the divide was primarily founded along gender lines. The big majority of men were firmly in the Connery camp. The Moore love was found with the fairer sex.
So this brings me back to one of my pet peeves with the Craig era, although I have many peeves with the Craig era, but I won't burden here.
But one that glares, is that Craig can play the role with the same gravitas and dangerous quality that Connery brought, (even if he falls way short in the charm and humour department IMO). So it would seem to me, that Craig could really ground a major escapist romp like TSWLM, and keep the danger and suspense real, but instead we get all these human character-drama exercises, that resemble the dreary Bourne template more than the exciting Bond escapist spy-vibe.
I would really like B24 to be Craig's Spy or MR. A great fun Bond romp, but minus any wink-wink.
I think that Skyfall was his GF or TSWLM - more of an epic Bond, no?
Well, fair enough. Each to their own and all that jazz.
Craig at least teased some of these elements in SF. He wasn't the sour puss that we saw in QoS, at least once he pulled it together and got his broody ass off that Turkish beach.
Thesis A is that Spy is a top 10 film per your personal preferences, thesis B is if not, what would you have done to make it so? Some have pointed to Wood's novelization as a version that would have accomplished that in comparison to the screen version. I'll have to bold and perhaps number future thesis' to avoid any confusion.
Some of the things that Spy could have done to make it a top 10 for me, and I certainly can see why the film has plenty of fans who see it as such regardless of my issues because this film is indeed one I always enjoy, are making Jaws more serious and less campy, more like Oddjob as you have mentioned. The soundtrack doesn't quite hit the mark for me as "Bondian", but it has some fine moments such as the title song and it's use in the film. Third, it's Gilbert's 2nd film and the plot and style is remarkably similar to what he directed with YOLT, therefore not very original. Although it works in both films and for me even in TND.
Point well taken between a little camp and the "wink, wink" camp we find in the Moore and Brosnan eras, and though you might disagree, in YOLT and DAF as well. The first 4 Connery classics did well with that, in just the right amounts and context. Now we get to Craig and both CR and SF, where all of us originals to the man (and woman) would disagree with you about. He may not have the charm you're looking for but humor has not been lacking in either CR or SF as far as I've been concerned. SF was especially true to the Connery tradition of DN-TB, many hilarious and perfectly British dry remarks were well delivered. Hopping the tube as a health and safety inspector while the couple quipped "he's keen to get home" was a great laugh out loud moment both times I saw it in the theater. "Good luck with that" to Silva's Macao henchman, futilely trying to operate the signature Walther while a Komodo is creeping up, was perfectly delivered including his facial expression. Even for it's pronounced lack of humor and generally dour tone, QOS even had a few examples that show Craig can change his expressions and deliver in the humor department.
The big question here for me in your statement is, would Craig do a serious yet grand adventure without the winking? I think he "could" do it and deliver. The question is, would he want to? I know he enjoys those entries as far as his own sense of entertainment value, but these aren't the movies he necessarily wants to do. Yes, it would be nice to see him in a straight up adventure without any personal issues (he almost got that in SF except for being pissed at M and having a very Fleming/Dalton-like attitude towards his job- again is that really that far from the spirit of Fleming to pursue that?), and I thought it was a good step. He's definitely not going to go for a script such as Spy, MR, or some of those from the Brosnan era, that much we can bet on or we would have seen it. But he has been rather ambiguous in his comments about a film such as you suggest.
I can see both of your points regarding SF vs GF vs TSWLM. All were huge moneymakers, but the latter two were somehow more epic and had a certain flair and charm to them that SF didn't quite capture. But SF wasn't real far off for me either. Definitely a return to the more classic Bond character.
Well, Raoul Silva was fairly camp but I guess that was the intention with that wonderful character.
The best villain for me since Trevalyan, yet somehow OTT like Zorin and Orlov. We need more villains like this, or at least one like him every once in awhile.