SirHenryLeeChaChing's For Original Fans - Favorite Moments In NTTD (spoilers)

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  • Updated ratings from the originals after 23 films, as of 12:45 PM U.S EST-


    1. Casino Royale- 4.33
    2. Goldfinger- 4.30
    3. From Russia With Love- 4.26
    4. Skyfall (6/7 reviews)- 4.17
    5. The Living Daylights- 4.11
    6. Thunderball- 4.09
    7. The Spy Who Loved Me- 4.06
    8. Licence To Kill- 4.03
    9. On Her Majesty's Secret Service- 3.99
    10. For Your Eyes Only- 3.91
    11. You Only Live Twice- 3.90
    12. Live And Let Die- 3.81
    13. GoldenEye- 3.80
    14. Octopussy- 3.73
    15. Tomorrow Never Dies- 3.71
    16. Dr. No- 3.57
    17. Quantum Of Solace- 3.42
    18. A View To A Kill- 3.31
    19. The World Is Not Enough- 3.17
    20. The Man With The Golden Gun- 3.09
    21. Diamonds Are Forever- 2.99
    22. Moonraker- 2.96
    23. Die Another Day- 2.70


    Good afternoon fellow originals and guests! After @BeatlesSansEarmuffs recent review of Tomorrow Never Dies came in with a score of 42 out of 50, the rating jumped up considerably from 3.63 to 3.71, thus locking it in at #15 out of 23 films.

    My continuous thanks to everyone who has participated in the thesis questions. Participation seemed more or less at normal levels this week and this week I gave some extra time due to the site being down for a time one day this past week. Trivia for our next film is already done.

    Regarding the polling of the 5 Tomorrow Never Dies thesis questions- they were a bit more conclusive this week, but I'm still seeing a little bit of an issue as far as unclear answers. I've been busy this week and haven't had the time to ask for clarifications. If you are finding the questions I'm asking unclear in the future, please ask me and I will explain further. Now to the responses-


    1. Of the four Pierce Brosnan entries, while GoldenEye is often cited as the best film, the performance of Brosnan in Tomorrow Never Dies has been noted by many as his best. Do you agree with this sentiment, and if so, why do you feel his sophomore performance was indeed better? If you do not agree, tell us why you don't. If you feel he was better in one of his last two performances you may do so and elaborate on that if you wish.

    Six of the 8 respondents were clear in stating that Pierce was better in this film than he was in GoldenEye, and that he was his best performance in the role. Two of the respondents chose not to state which of the above two films he was better in, and felt his performance in The World Is Not Enough was the best one in his tenure. Personally, I also feel this was his best performance as Bond, and have been on record as saying the reason why is because he seemed relaxed and was on point, and not overacting, which I felt he was very guilty at times of in his final two turns.


    2. The hiring of Teri Hatcher and both her exit comments and lackluster portrayal have often been criticized, including Brosnan himself. If you had the final say and had to choose between the other two candidates, who were Monica Bellucci and Sela Ward, who would have been your choice? You can elaborate on why if you wish. And if you felt Hatcher was the right choice all along, then why was she?

    Now this question was answered very clearly this week. By a vote of 6 to 3, the panel chose Monica Bellucci over Sela Ward. Those who did stated that her combination of beauty, sex appeal, and an undemanding role that suited her skills. The 3 votes for Sela Ward were for her better acting ability. I also chose Monica and felt all that was described above should have been enough to convince casting director Debbie McWilliams to choose her. Don't get me wrong on Sela Ward, for me she's the best actress of the three, and I think better suited for a leading lady as opposed to the more minor role of Paris Carver. And to no one's surprise, not one person said that Teri Hatcher was the best choice. Brosnan himself would say later that "Hatcher stole the day", but exactly how is unclear based on her performance, for which the best response was "adequate". McWilliams' choices would become even more suspect in the next two movies and perhaps she will be the subject of a future thesis.


    3. One of the criticisms of the Tomorrow Never Dies script is that it rehashes the plots of both You Only Live Twice and The Spy Who Loved Me by having a villain controlled vehicle capturing vehicles of other countries. Is the criticism fair, or do you feel it is unfair and that this film does enough to firmly separate itself from the other two in it's storyline?

    The view of unfair prevailed here. Most people saw the similarities to the prior two films, but felt fairly strongly that this movie did enough to distinguish the villain's motivations from those of SPECTRE and Stromberg and thus make it a unique enough entry on it's own merits.


    4. As we've read, long time Bond composer John Barry anointed David Arnold "the rightful heir" to his legacy after declining to score another film. For you, was Arnold's very similar yet updated style of Bondian music the correct direction for the future of the series, meaning "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", or should the producers have continued to seek a more original composer with different sensibilities to re-define their new post Cold war era of films?

    Another unanimous decision here. While no one certainly felt that he was without flaws, and quite a few made a point of saying that his music improved in the Craig era to follow, everyone felt that Arnold restored the musical sensibilities as far as how a Bond movie soundtrack should sound, and felt John Barry, EON, and MGM/UA corrected the mistake of the Serra hire and brought in the right man going forward.


    5. We know from You Only Live Twice that Bond received top marks from Cambridge in their Oriental languages course, yet in this film he cannot read the Chinese characters on Wai Lin's keyboard. Do you suppose this was simply an oversight due to the rushed production of the film, or is this perhaps a new kind of Bond not so "expert" in so many different areas as previous Bonds were?

    The most mixed view of all. By a 5-3 margin this was passed off as an oversight, but there was obviously a camp of those who felt Bond shouldn't be expected to know everything. It generally didn't bother anyone greatly.

    Let me tell you how much of a mess this becomes in the Benson novels, in case you're unfamiliar. In his adaptation of Tomorrow Never Dies, he includes a reference to the film version of You Only Live Twice where he states that Bond was lying to Miss Moneypenny when he said he had taken a course in Oriental languages. He did this to explain the Wai Lin keyboard instance. But this contradicts Benson's previous book Zero Minus Ten, which also dealt with the impending handover of Hong Kong to China by the UK, in which Bond is able to at least speak fluent Cantonese. So while I felt like Benson that it was an oversight, and one possibly brought on by the script going through daily rewrites or arriving fresh daily, which is what we saw again in 2008 with Quantum Of Solace, I really have to stay away from the anomalies between Fleming and previous films and these continuation authors in the future.


    That will wrap up our look back at Tomorrow Never Dies, and next we will revisit the third of the four Brosnan films in The World Is Not Enough. It's a film that is undoubtedly the most heavily debated and of the Brosnan era as far as it's pros and cons and the gap between it's supporters and detractors, so let's see if Beatles' review keeps it at #19 out of 23 films as well as what side of the coin he comes down on. Have a great weekend everyone!
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,566
    THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH

    This film is “the decider” for Brosnan’s tenure as Bond. The general consensus of opinion among Bond fans is that GE and TND are both pretty good, but that DAD is a real turkey. That leaves this film to decide the critical fate of Brosnan’s Bond: 3 good films to one poor one would be a fairly decent ratio, 2 good films to 2 poor ones would leave his tenure as a pretty mediocre one. Unfortunately for those of us who would like our judgments to come easily, this film does not fall simply into a “good” or “bad” classification. Roughly the first half of TWINE is actually pretty enjoyable, with some very interesting concepts open for our examination. But when Christmas Jones is introduced, things take a substantial turn for the worse. What we are left with in this film is a half-and-half effort. Let’s look at it by the categories:

    BOND 3.5/5 Brosnan’s Bond behaves in a somewhat unprofessional manner this time around. He finds himself overly sympathetic to Electra King before he’s ever even met her, and because he is worried for her psychological well-being Bond uses his romantic charms on the female doctor M has assigned to evaluate his physical state after injuries suffered in the PTS. (A note to Ms past and future seems appropriate here: DO NOT under any circumstances assign a female evaluator to Bond’s case unless you just want a rubber stamped verdict of “QUITE fit thank you very much!”) Bond’s lack of professionalism in this film is matched by M’s (and we’ll get to that later on) but at least hers is understandable given her history with the King family. I suppose Bond’s behavior can be chalked up to his obvious need to play “knight in shining armor” whenever he finds a lady in distress…but I find it interesting that he’s only willing to consider the obvious possibility that Electra might be one of the villains in this scenario after Christmas Jones has come onto the scene.

    WOMEN 3/5 Sophie Marceau is a gorgeous woman and a fine actress to boot. Her Electra King is clearly the most interesting character in this film; the one character the others all revolve around. The revelation that she had escaped her kidnappers by utilizing her sexuality to turn them, and that she is partially suffering from Stockholm syndrome -- but also that she is using the terrorist and kidnapper Renard for her own ends -- is an effective plot twist. Unfortunately for this film, Marceau is not the only woman we have to evaluate here. We also have to consider Denise Richards as nuclear physicist Dr. Christmas Jones. Miss Richards is unbelievably beautiful, as well as being totally unbelievable in her role. Her time onscreen is a combination of some of the worst casting, coupled with some of the worst writing, topped off with some of the worst acting that this series has ever endured. Marceau as Electra alone would receive a 5/5 from this reviewer, but Richards is lucky to receive a 1/5. I’d have rather seen Maria Grazia Cucinotta in the role of a nuclear physicist with some name other than Christmas Jones; that one small creative decision would have undoubtedly gone a long way towards redeeming the various sins of this movie. And before I can move on to the next category: submitted for your consideration, Serena Scott Thomas as Dr. Molly Warmflash. Really? Dr. Warmflash??? I hadn’t caught the character’s name until just now. Oh. My. God. Purvis & Wade, consider yourselves lucky that the system of judging that we are working with does not have a single category labeled “Script.” I thought “Christmas Jones” was bad, but “Dr. Warmflash” isn’t even worthy of a cheesy one-liner…

    VILLAINS 2.5/5 As noted above, Electra King’s actions and motivation are very interesting, and quite unusual for this series. The concept behind Robert Carlyle’s character, Renard the terrorist, was also a potentially fascinating one. Unfortunately, the script never really puts Renard’s inability to feel pain to any but the most cursory of uses. He holds a hot rock in one hand before placing it into another character’s hand to punish him. Big honkin’ deal. He is also unable to feel any physical pleasure at Electra’s touch. Double deal of the big honkin’ variety. They could have done so much more with this concept -- and they didn’t. I’d have liked to see Renard also losing the ability to hear or see or at least smell, and attempting to cope with those losses…or at the very least, he should have been able to KICK BOND’S KEISTER all over the submarine in their final encounter. But no, he responds to Bond’s punches as if he is still feeling them. The script-writers’ inability to cope with the immensely original concept behind Renard’s senses or lack of them is one of this film’s most substantial failings to my mind. Mr. Bullion is amusing in a minor fashion, and while some prefer to evaluate him in the “Supporting Character” category I see him primarily as a villain so I’ll put him here. Davidov the security chief is adequate but not much more than that, not objectionable but also not particularly memorable. If you want memorable, look no farther than Maria Gracia Cucinotta as the Cigar Girl. She doesn’t outlive the PTS but boy, does she live on in the memories of male Bond fans!

    HUMOR 3/5 Again we have a real mixture of the inspired and the insipid. Robbie Coltrane’s return as Valentin Zukovsky is undoubtedly one of the former. “I’m a slave to the free market economy!” is one of the better humorously-intended lines in Bond series history to my way of thinking, but really, every time he turns around Zukovsky says something else to tickle my funny bone. And then we have John Cleese as R. I’ll tackle him in greater detail in the “Supporting Characters” category. For now let’s just say: our casting director has not been covering herself with glory in this film. And then we have the infamous line about Christmas coming once a year. Are we sure Bond and Zukovsky share the same gag writer?

    ACTION 3/5 The PTS starts the movie off brilliantly, as Bond and the Cigar Girl race through the Thames in an astonishing boat chase. Q’s jet boat is an awesome gadget, and the climax of the scene, with Giulietta daVinci (really? DaVinci? Man, Purvis & Wade just can’t name characters decently to save their lives! No wonder everybody just calls her Cigar Girl!) attempting to escape in a hot air balloon and Bond falling onto the Millenium Dome as the title sequence commences…hey, this is one of the best beginning sequences the franchise has ever seen. Then we have a bit too much plot getting in the way of the action for the next quarter hour or so (thank you, Joe Bob Briggs.) Once the action begins again, we just can’t seem to match the excitement of the PTS. Bond’s ski scene with Electra is another toss-up, quality-wise: exciting though it is, this scene reminds me a little too blatantly of the ski scenes in OHMSS and FYEO. After that, the “homages” just keep coming: Bond & Christmas Jones in the oil pipeline (DAF, anybody?)…the entire climax on the stealth boat -- oh, I’m sorry, the SUBMARINE… the stealth boat was the last movie, how could I have mixed them up? And as long as I’m on the subject of the last movie, let’s not forget the scene where Bond and Wai Lin jump out the window of Carver’s Ho Chi Minh City HQ, reprised early in this movie’s PTS when Bond jumps out the window of the Bank belayed by the grappling line attached to a body, snagged on a table in the room he’s just exited. Even when the action scenes can’t really be traced to one previous film or another, they’re just too conveniently staged: Bond automatically knows which button to push in the Russian atomic weapon stockpile to close the doors JUST IN TIME to shield him from a fiery blast…or he knows which sequence of buttons to push in the submarine to blow the control rod out of its position and into Renard’s body, finally killing the nearly invulnerable terrorist. There are several exciting action sequences in this film, don’t get me wrong: I really enjoyed the scene at Zukovsky’s caviar factory, with the helicopter-mounted buzz saws destroying the factory (as well as Bond’s remote controlled BMW.) But this is the category where are I usually discuss the flaws in the script, and this time around those flaws are too fundamental to ignore.

    SADISM 5/5 The core relationship of this film, that of Renard and Electra, is built around one very twisted dynamic: who is the dominant member of this team? I’m afraid it is Electra, although that evaluation could be debated. Still, the kidnapping/turning of the kidnappers which originally brought these two beauties together is a remarkably complex study of the different types of emotional power that each holds over the other. In her anger at her father, and at the matronly figure of M, Electra seems almost incapable of holding any emotion that isn’t rooted in hatred and the need to control others. She holds M hostage for a good part of the film, placing an alarm clock conveniently within reach why exactly? Other than the needs of the scriptwriters, of course… Her antique torture chair, which holds Bond in a painful grip later in the film, is an almost prosaic manifestation of the kinks that suffuse this film. Electra’s assessment of her power over men (“You’d miss me,”) is finally refuted by Bond after he has been released from her hold by another man’s dying gesture (“I never miss.”) Is the brief moment of grief Bond shows over her corpse inspired by remorse at the action he has been forced to take -- or is it due to a final awareness that he had been critically wrong about the nature of her character?

    MUSIC 3/5 David Arnold’s score is serviceable but not exactly inspired. The theme song, frankly, is indistinguishable in my mind from that of the previous film. Try it yourself: play the music to this song, and where you would be singing “The World is Not Enough,“ instead sing the lyrics, “Tomorrow Never Dies.” Fits all too well to my ears. Arnold will do better in future offerings, this time around let’s just say that he responded in kind to the film he was scoring.

    LOCATION 4/5 Much of the film takes place in or near the oil fields of Azerbaijan with other locations including Istanbul, France, Scotland and London. The oil fields are a bit of a blight really, while the capital city of Baku and much of Azerbaijan itself is depicted as being quite beautiful. The scene in the church has a nice visual appeal to my eyes, and the snow scenes always add a grace note to any Bond movie in which they appear. The Maiden’s Tower has a unique appeal to it, and the scenes that take place there are visually quite interesting. The scenes in London and the Thames are also nicely depicted, and the brief funeral scene in Scotland has a welcome tranquility to it. All told, the locations of this film are nicely varied, and the film is visually enjoyable for that well-considered variety.

    GADGETS 3.5/5 There are plenty of gadgets here but few are really essential to the storyline. Q’s jet boat is huge fun, and the inflatable snow suit is briefly amusing (when R demonstrates it) and then surprisingly useful when it saves Bond and Electra from a freezing death. The X-Ray glasses are the sort of thing that used to be shown in the cheapo ads in comic books, and Bond uses them just like an 11 year old would have back in the day -- to get a nice look at women’s underwear. Oh, yes, and to see that nearly everybody is carrying a gun. The most important gadgets in this film belong to the bad guys, and that’s never a good sign. The blade-bearing helicopter is pretty scary, and utilized effectively to destroy both Zukovsky’s caviar factory and Bond’s remote-controlled BMW. Sorry, BMW -- three films is all you get from this contract. I hope you think your product-placement $$$ was well-spent!

    SUPPORTING CAST 3.5/5 This film has perhaps the most extensive use of the supporting cast in any Bond film, some of it well considered and some not so much. Judi Dench’s role as M is certainly the most important character for us to consider in terms of the overall storyline…but she doesn’t come off as well as M really ought to. First of all, she’s surprisingly unprofessional this time around, and she ends up getting captured and nearly killed for her mistakes. This is the first time we get such extensive use of Dench’s M and sad to say, it won‘t be the last…she gives King bad advice in the background story that occurs before the film has ever started, and her actions don’t get any wiser as the film progresses. (One parenthetical note: even when she is still supposed to be a victim of Renard’s actions, and speaking to her in the role of a family friend, Electra refers to Dame Judi’s character as “M.” She doesn’t use her name -- which should by rights be the only way she has ever referred to her old family friend -- she calls her “M.” I’ll just chalk this up to lazy scriptwriting and move on to the next character in our company.) We also have a fairly jealous Moneypenny, and again surprisingly so: as is stated in the PTS, the relationship between this Bond and this Moneypenny is “Close but no cigar.” (Another note regarding the depiction of smoking in this series: Bond hands Moneypenny the cigar he had been given at the bank, and she throws it in the garbage saying “I know where to put THIS.” It’s not that I expected to see her light the thing up, but again we have a gratuitous moment of "dis" hurled in the faces of the smokers in the audience -- the second film in a row in which the filmmakers felt the need to express this anti-smoking sentiment.) Let us next consider the introduction of John Cleese as “R,” the expected replacement for Q. Quite frankly, I think this is monumentally bad casting. Cleese is a comedian, and a very good one, but Q is not a strictly comedic role. Sometimes the role is that of providing exposition, sometimes he is actually an aide to Bond in the field…and yes, sometimes the role is that of comic relief. For Eon to cast Cleese in this important supporting role is essentially a statement that they expect Q to be nothing more than a buffoon from here on out. Thankfully, Cleese only served in this company for one more film before the Craig reboot. Then we have the final hurrah for our one true Q, Desmond Llewellyn. This is a truly touching scene, and I will overlook the point that Q’s lines here present Q as having been something of a mentor to Bond, which was never really the case. This moment serves one point, and it is an essential one: it allows Llewellyn to say a final farewell to Bond and to the audience. I only wish Lois Maxwell had been given a similar moment. As it is, this is the only such moment any actor in the series has been granted, and it is well deserved. Thank you for many years of treasured memories, Mr. Llewellyn. You were a true professional, and your memory will live on as long as the Bond series itself.

    OVERALL SCORE AND RECOLLECTIONS 34/50 So: how to judge this movie in the final analysis? There have been worse … but it could have easily been so much better. I’ll give this one points for originality, but points off for flaws in execution. Denise Richards was poorly considered as Christmas Jones, but Sophie Marceau was breathtaking as Electra. Robert Carlyle’s character was an interesting idea that was insufficiently illuminated. John Cleese was terribly miscast as R, but Desmond Llewellyn redeemed the film in this area with his farewell performance as Q. Judi Dench’s M was scripted as something less than competent in her position, but Robbie Coltrane’s remarkable Zukovsky rescued them all from imprisonment in the Maiden’s Tower. The exhilarating PTS was nearly sunk by the credibility-straining finale on board the sinking submarine. What we have here is a film in the balance. Enjoyable? A turkey? What do you think? For me, bottom line: I enjoyed it. Certainly not the best Bond film I’ve ever watched, but by no means the worst. Where this film has most often gone wrong is in the areas of script and casting. But at least the filmmakers are TRYING to keep the series fresh, while still satisfying the ingrained expectations of their audience, and that’s not an easy task. I’ll give The World is Not Enough one guarded thumb up…and I’ll be looking to the future with caution…

    THE END of this review
    But BeatlesSansEarmuffs will return soon
    To review Pierce Brosnan’s swan song as James Bond…
    DIE ANOTHER DAY





  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Another fine review, Beatles! While I apparently like the film a bit more than you do, I can't fault your analysis one bit. Good show!!
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Great review as usual @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. When I first watched this film I liked it a lot, really a lot, but with each viewing it lost its appeal to me. It's so full of cringe worthy moments, which is a shame since it did have so much potential. I agree with you in almost everything, except I actually enjoy the title song a lot (but I'm a Garbage fan, so...).
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,494
    @Beatles- another excellent review with some telling statements. I must agree with virtually all of it.

    As far as cautious thumbs ups, this however was a cautious thumbs down for me. It's certainly not a terrible film, but one for me that like @Sandy diminishes more and more in value with each viewing. I don't find an awful lot to like. It will be interesting to see when the thesis questions arrive tomorrow where to lay the blame for the overblown sense of melodrama without clear rhyme nor reason too early and too often. Bond falls too quickly "in love" with Elektra, in clear contrast to the history of the series. No sense of real romance like we see with Tracy and Vesper to explain why he's got "the hots", especially for a man whose just showed us in the previous film exactly why he doesn't allow himself that luxury and one we're painfully reminded of 7 years later. For an ordinary guy like me why not, Sophie is all that and a truckload of potato chips and one of the film's saving graces, but here I don't buy it and it skews all manner of common sense and history. In short, the melodrama hinders rather than helps Brosnan this time out, and hopefully we'll collectively be able to make sense of where he and the movie were right and where it went wrong.

    It's clear that Renard's vast potential was ignored, I must agree. As is the real dynamic of his relationship with Elektra as well. No one can agree who's in charge, we've been told she is, but that's not clear to the viewer in my mind nor apparently yours either, and we'll explore that aspect too on Tuesday. But that's not all. Dench's performance is the flattest I've seen in her entire tenure and her dialogue not as compelling as it normally would be when she's featured to this extent. Moneypenny is a mess again. Cleese is more a foil for the real Q and less a potential Q of the future.

    Other than sexy Sophie, it's Zukovsky and his foil Mr. Bullion stealing the show. And of course, the last scene of our beloved Desmond Llewellyn that makes me genuinely sad, every time to this day I feel like I've lost an old friend all over again. The tribute video jerks tears out of me every time. And it was Raymond Benson's novelization of this film where he gave Cigar Girl her name of Giulietta daVinci. P&W can be saddled with and get a lot of grief, but not for that one anyway.

    Notice I left out comment on Denise Richards? I'm not saying she isn't hot, this film right down to Nina and Veruschka and Serena Scott-Thomas refusing a body double certainly tickle me right down to the old man-bone. But marriage to Charlie Sheen? I think when she said "yes" that he'd convinced her to re-enact a scene from LTK, which consisted of snorting a lot of coke and a little bit of Dario.

    Trivia tonight after work :)

  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,566
    @SirHenry: thanks for the clarification on the source of Cigar Girl's name. I agree that P&W take enough grief (deservedly so) and I don't want to water down the pool with any that isn't rightfully theirs. Dr. Warmflash is enough for one movie I dare say...
  • Posts: 6,396
    @SirHenry: thanks for the clarification on the source of Cigar Girl's name. I agree that P&W take enough grief (deservedly so) and I don't want to water down the pool with any that isn't rightfully theirs. Dr. Warmflash is enough for one movie I dare say...

    Except we didn't get just one. We got Christmas Jones as well.

    How would Oscar Wilde have put it? "To have one crap name in a Bond film may be regarded as a misfortune..."
  • Not just two crap names, but two bimbo doctors as well. I'm guessing someone didn't like doctors.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Again a most thoughtfull as well as entertaining review. @BeatlesSans, thank you! Again you find words where I usually find 'an odd feeling'.

    @SirHenry or someone was living out a cheap fantasy....
  • Posts: 6,396
    Not just two crap names, but two bimbo doctors as well. I'm guessing someone didn't like doctors.

    Or someone's been watching way too many Carry On films to think that's how doctors and nurses act.
  • Again a most thoughtfull as well as entertaining review. @BeatlesSans, thank you! Again you find words where I usually find 'an odd feeling'.

    @SirHenry or someone was living out a cheap fantasy....

    Which one? I've got plenty of those ;)

  • Posts: 11,189
    Funnily enough in the new Bond book there's another character named Christmas (and one called Sunday).
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited October 2013 Posts: 8,266
    Again a most thoughtfull as well as entertaining review. @BeatlesSans, thank you! Again you find words where I usually find 'an odd feeling'.

    @SirHenry or someone was living out a cheap fantasy....

    Which one? I've got plenty of those ;)

    The kind they made movies of that you could find in a darkened corner of the video-rental store...
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Again a most thoughtfull as well as entertaining review. @BeatlesSans, thank you! Again you find words where I usually find 'an odd feeling'.

    @SirHenry or someone was living out a cheap fantasy....

    Which one? I've got plenty of those ;)

    The kind they made movies of that you could find in a darkened corner of the video-rental store...

    I make my own movies. Maybe that's where some of those missing copies got off to :)

  • Trivia notes for The World Is Not Enough- sources used were IMDB, mi6.com, and various Associated Press newspaper articles from that time. The statements made in the music notes come from Jon Burlingame's "The Music Of James Bond" book, and a few items were researched and contributed by myself. Thesis questions coming up tomorrow.



    CHARACTER FACTS-


    - Pierce Brosnan's 3rd appearance as James Bond.

    - Renard, Viktor Zokas' nom de guerre, is French for "fox". This reflects the first draft of the character, who was French and named Claude Serrault. His pain-killing brain injury was originally written for the Mr. Stamper character in Tomorrow Never Dies and was used in that film's novelization. The part of Renard was won by highly respected Scottish actor Robert Carlyle, who had no acting experience until the age of 21, when he decided to attend the Royal Scottish Academy Of Music and Drama after reading Arthur Miller's book "The Crucible".

    - MGM preferred American film star and Pennsylvania native Sharon Stone for the role of Elektra. The role eventually went to French film star Sophie Marceau.

    - Marceau, despite being one of the world's most desirable women, was only recently married. From 1985 to 2001, Marceau had a relationship with Ukrainian born Polish director Andrzej Zulawski, who is coincidentally her senior by the same amount of years they were together, 26 years. Their son Vincent was born in June 1995. In 2001, Marceau left Zulawski and began a relationship with American producer Jim Lemley. Her second child, Juliette, was born in London in 2002. Since 2007, she has been in a relationship with French actor Christophe(r) Lambert, who was born in America while his father was the French ambassador to the UN and later raised in Geneva, with whom she appeared in the films Trivial and Cartagena. Lambert is best known for his role as Scottish immortal Connor MacLeod from the Highlander film series, which coincidentally filmed at the Scottish Eilean Donan castle used as MI6 headquarters in the film. They married in 2012.

    - Italian actress Maria Grazia Cucinotta originally auditioned for the part of Elektra King but director Michael Apted didn't think her English was good enough to play her convincingly. Cucinotti gladly accepted the smaller role of the "Cigar Girl" as she really wanted to be in a Bond film.

    - American actress Denise Richards was attracted to the role of Dr. Christmas Jones as she had found the part to be "brainy", "athletic" and had "depth of character", a change in direction from previous Bond Girls. Audiences did not agree, and often consider Christmas to be the worst Bond Girl ever. This was the first Bond film to ever win a Razzie (for Worst Supporting Actress), for the same reason. A more recent poll named Richards one of "the worst Bond girls of all time". Richards is also well known for her role in the movie "Wild Things", and perhaps even more well known nowadays through the tabloids as the ex-wife of Charlie Sheen, with whom she had two daughters.

    - American TV star Tiffani (Amber) Thiessen was also considered for the role of Dr. Christmas Jones.

    - English actress Serena Scott Thomas, who plays MI6 doctor Molly Warmflash, did her love scene with Bond herself, turning down the offer of letting a body double do it for her.

    - Robbie Coltrane's 2nd and final appearance as ex-KGB agent/Russian gangster/businessman Valentin Zukovsky. Many of Coltrane's lines as Zukovsky here are actually derived from cut scenes from the "GoldenEye" script in which he made his Bond debut.

    - Desmond Llewellyn died in an auto accident soon after the movie opened. Llewellyn had said just before his death that he was planning to appear in the next Bond film.

    - Rugby player Jonah Lomu of New Zealand was originally asked to play Gabor, but he declined.



    PRODUCTION NOTES-


    - The first Bond film to be shot in Pinewood Studios in over 12 years since The Living Daylights.

    - The first James Bond film that was not released or co-produced by United Artists. Instead, UA's parent company MGM released and co-produced the film.

    - First Bond filmed in Dolby Digital EX 6.1 sound.

    - Initially the film was scheduled for release in 2000 with rumored titles including 'Death Waits for No Man", "Fire and Ice", "Pressure Point" and "Dangerously Yours".

    - The film's story was inspired by a segment in the November 13, 1997 episode of ABC News Nightline that featured author Daniel Yergin and his documentary series "The Prize: The Epic Quest For Oil, Money, And Power". Co-producer Barbara Broccoli had seen it on a plane flight in November 1997. The episode reported the last great oil discovery on the planet was in the region of Eastern Europe. It covered pipelines in the area and discussed the grand reservoirs of oil that exist below the Caspian Sea. It told of the rise of small towns in the region that have grown into centers of grand affluence which has included the building of a number of casinos. The episode showed how this oil reserve was now an opportunity for the western world to capitalize on as it was no longer a Russian jurisdiction and as such major oil companies now had interests there. Broccoli hypothesized how a James Bond villain might want to create a monopoly by removing all competitors and owning the only pipeline in the region.

    - Early in the development stages, some of the names being bandied around for the position of director included Martin Scorsese and Peter Medak.

    - Barbara Broccoli was a big fan of Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures and had was interested in Jackson directing the film. However, when she saw Jackson's film The Frighteners, she was put off by the director's style. Joe Dante was another director possibility. Director Michael Apted was eventually tapped for the job.

    - Having directed this movie, director Michael Apted has now been associated with two of the longest series ever in film history, the James Bond movies and the Seven Up! Documentaries. Amusingly, this movie was once jokingly referred to by the media as "OO7 Up"

    - First James Bond movie where a main villain is a woman. Because of this, it is also the first James Bond film in which James Bond intentionally kills a leading Bond Girl who is a major love interest.

    - The total on-screen body count is around 60.

    - In early drafts of the script, the character that became Christmas Jones was a Polynesian insurance investigator. This was changed to avoid confusion with Brosnan's female foil in The Thomas Crown Affair. The Cigar Girl was to have been named Sashenka Firo, and Dr. Molly Warmflash was to be called Doctor Greatrex.

    - When the real MI6 learned that this film would shoot a scene around their headquarters, they moved to prohibit it, citing a security risk. However, Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, at the urging of Parliament Member Janet Anderson, moved to overrule them and allow the shoot, stating, "After all Bond has done for Britain, it was the least we could do for Bond."

    - The underwater tie straightening by Bond during the PTS was an idea conceived by Pierce Brosnan.

    - Sir Robert King's funeral is set in Scotland but was actually filmed just outside of London. Judi Dench was appearing in a play in the West End at the time and wouldn't have been able to fly to Scotland. In the script, it is explained that King inherited the oil fortune from his wife's family. Her father had no male heirs so he left the property to his son-in-law.

    - The Scottish castle Eilean Donan is located near the Isle of Skye, West Scotland. In the castle, a portrait of original M Bernard Lee hangs behind the current M's desk.

    - The ski-para hawk attack scene was inspired by the ski chase in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Filmmakers wanted to connect the film with the one which its title is derived from.

    - The Caucasus ski chase sequence was filmed in Chamonix, France. There are conflicting reports, one stated that another location in the French Alps was to be used before an avalanche occured in the area. Another report stated that this occured in the same general Chamonix area and filming was delayed while the crew pitched in to assist with rescue operations.

    - Sophie Marceau's breast can be seen in her bed scene between Elektra King and James Bond. This happens just after Bond says "Enough ice for one night". Apparently, the glimpse has been airbrushed out so it cannot be seen in the trailer and remains only in the film itself. Ten prior takes of the scene between Bond and Elektra in bed could not be used due to the fact that one of Marceau's nipples was visible.

    - The first time that "James Bond Will Return" appears at the beginning of the end credits, and not the end.



    THE PTS- BILBAO, MILLENNIUM DOMES AND HIGH SPEED PUNTING ON THE THAMES-


    - The opening banker sequence was originally set in Havana, Cuba and then was moved to Geneva, Switzerland before eventually being set in Bilbao, Spain.

    - The epic boat chase scene was not originally intended to be part of the opening sequence. It was re-arranged to be part of the series' longest pre-titles sequence to date when test audiences commented that the bank break-out was not sufficient.

    - Before filming even began, over two months of stunt rehearsing for the PTS boat chase took place at a top-secret location in Hampshire.

    - The PTS boat chase took 6-7 weeks to shoot, as the Thames' 9-MPH boat speed limit had to be factored in. The filming of the boat chase sequence was broadcast live over the Internet via webcam set up at specific points over the River Thames. Two "Clamper" policemen were disturbed in their line of duty during filming, being soaked so much that one of them ended up nearly going over the front of the car they were supposed to be clamping. Needless to say, their reactions in the film are very much real. The scene was not originally intended to be part of the opening sequence, until test audiences said that the jump-from-the-window opener was anticlimactic. As such, it was brought forward and had to be shortened. As it is now, this 14-to-15-minute opener is still the longest pre-credits sequence ever in a James Bond movie.

    - The Q boat can achieve 80mph on the water. During the making of the film, it was discovered only by accident that its 350 horsepower engines could literally force the bow of the boat under water. The move was written into the film.

    - 35 boats were used to create the action packed PTS chase down the Thames.

    - Sarah Donohue, a British model with years of powerboat racing experience was the stunt double of Maria Grazia Cucinotta for the boat chase scene. Prior to that, she had just recovered from serious injuries sustained from a powerboat racing accident. Being a blonde meant that she had to wear a wig.

    - This was the first film to feature the newly constructed Millennium Dome, built for London's New Year's celebration of 1999/2000. There was a line allegedly said by M at the end of the opening sequence which was cut where she says: "Well, at least the Millennium Dome has some use".



    FROM ISTANBUL WITH NOT SO MUCH LOVE-


    - The second time a James Bond movie used Turkey as a location, From Russia with Love was the first some 36 years earlier. A big car chase through the old town of Istanbul was ultimately discarded, but perhaps this idea never left the minds of the producers as one was filmed for the most recent Bond film, "Skyfall".

    - Before the shoots even begun, a set was being built in Turkey and it was almost done. One day when director Michael Apted was touring around Istanbul, a terror bombing took place. Therefore the shots that included the cast were never shot in Istanbul, according to Apted, due to security concerns. Not a single cast member actually went to Istanbul. However, a secret filming unit comprised of twelve crew members did film in Istanbul under the fake cover movie title "Destiny".

    - The shots of Robert Carlyle and his men getting off the boat on the jetty at Elektra's palace were shot in the tank at Pinewood against a blue/green screen.

    - Elektra's villa in Baku is in reality an historical vacation palace called the Maiden's Tower and situated in Istanbul, Turkey.

    - Elektra King's oil pumping building, with the oil pipeline on its roof, is actually the Motorola building in north Swindon, UK. The building, which is clearly visible from the A417/A419 dual carriageway, has a distinctive heat exchanger on its roof in the form of a long cylinder. The production team extended this cylinder into the pipeline with computer graphics.

    - All the pipes representing Elektra's pipeline are made of cardboard.

    - To create the effect when Bond looks through his X-ray glasses, the actors were first filmed in their regular costumes, then again this time wearing special costumes that revealed the shapes of guns and knives underneath translucent clothing. The two were then matted together.

    - In the warehouse that Zukovsky has turned into an operations room, the girlie pictures seen on the walls are actually of former Bond girls.

    - The scene where Zukovsky is splashing around in a pool of his own caviar was filmed on Robbie Coltrane's birthday.

    - The destruction of Zukovsky's factory operations took approximately 5 months to complete.




    PROMOTIONAL NOTES-


    - This movie's video release was dedicated to Desmond Llewellyn and features a tribute montage of his appearances in 17 Bond films over 36 years.

    - Published newspaper reports during production of the film indicated that, as the last Bond film of the millennium, this would feature cameos by virtually every surviving previous Bond girl. Ursula Andress, Diana Rigg, Famke Janssen and Barbara Bach were mentioned by name as among those slated to appear. Sadly, this idea - if it was ever more than a media rumor - never came to fruition.

    - To help promote the film, skywriters were hired to write "007" in skies across the U.S.

    - The world premiere of The World Is Not Enough was held on November 8, 1999 at two cinemas: Bruin & Fox's Theatre and Mann's Village Chinese Theater, both in Los Angeles, California. It was the second Bond movie in the official series to launch in California; the first was A View to a Kill. It was the second for L.A. for any Bond movie, the first was Never Say Never Again. It was the third Bond premiere for California and the fourth overall in the USA, after the above-mentioned and GoldenEye. The European and British premiere was held at the regular Bond launch venue, London's Leicester Square Odeon Theatre on 22 November 1999. The UK Gala Charity Premiere Benefit was held in aid of the charity Children's Promise. The post-premiere party was held at St. James Square.

    - This movie and Sleepy Hollow are the only 2 films in U.S. history to open on the same day and each gross $30 million their opening weekend.

    - Until the release of the following film Die Another Day, this was the highest grossing Bond film of all time.

    - Product placements, brand integrations, promotional tie-ins and sponsorships for this movie include the 2nd of BMW's 3-picture deal promoting their cars, specifically the BMW Z8; Motorola; Bollinger Champagne, particularly a Grande Annee 1990; Turnbull & Asser ties; Omega Outdoor Agencies Ski Suits; Smirnoff Vodka i.e. Smirnoff blue label vodka; Sunseeker Power Boats; Omega Watches, James Bond wears an Omega Seamaster watch; Caterpillar Industrial Vehicles; Church Presley Shoes urging consumers to "Step into Bond's shoes"; Heineken Beer maintaining "Some things shouldn't be shaken or stirred"; Microsoft Windows; and Electronic Arts' tie-in video-game, The World Is Not Enough. Reportedly, MGM earned $100 million in product placements for this movie.




    RONCO VEGECOPTERS AND OTHER VEHICLES-

    - Vehicles featured included Q's unfinished fishing boat, the black one-seater jet-craft aquatic Bentz Boats custom-built Q-boat; a silver metallic 400 hp gadget-laden BMW Z8 convertible roadster; the King Helicopter, a Eurocopter AS-355F1 Ecureuil Twin Star (or Twin Squirrel) helicopter with 5-blade buzz-saw as well as Aerospatiale HH-65A Dauphin, Eurocopter AS-365N Dauphin and Eurocopter EC-135 helicopters; The Cigar Girl's hot air balloon; the Cigar Girl's Sunseeker Superhawk 34 motor yacht speedboat and Renard's Sunseeker Manhattan 50 Flybridge motoryacht; a Lada Niva 4WD ute; an army jeep; a Russian Atomic submarine; a satellite image of the famous silver birch Aston Martin DB5 (its other shots were cut); a turboprop powered STOL medium transport Casa C-212-200 Aviocar airplane and four Parahawk parachute propelled hybrid snowmobiles.

    - The sequence at Zukovsky's caviar factory, where Bond and Christmas Jones are being chased by helicopters carrying razor-sharp sawblades, was originally scripted for GoldenEye. However, the film was running long and filmmakers dropped this action piece from the script only to revisit it two films later.

    - Zukovsky's car was a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow.


    MUSIC AND GAMING NOTES-


    - With everyone from EON to MGM delighted with his scoring and alternate theme song to Tomorrow Never Dies, David Arnold was again hired to score the film and given the right to compose the title song. In the Jon Burlingame book "The Music Of James Bond", Arnold stated that the theme was written from Elektra's point of view in tone and lyric, and that he felt Garbage singer Shirley Manson was "the musical equivalent of Elektra King, confrontational, up front, and even though she's very beautiful and very female, she has a lot of masculine energy".

    - This is lyricist Don Black's fifth Bond theme song after Thunderball, Diamonds Are Forever, The Man with the Golden Gun and (unofficially) Surrender from Tomorrow Never Dies.

    - The film's title song "The World is Not Enough" sung by Garbage did not chart in the USA whilst in the UK it peaked at the No. #11 spot on the UK Charts. The movie's soundtrack album went to the No. #106 spot on the UK Charts. There are two versions of the soundtrack, the second one differs in that it includes a 20th track entitled "Sweetest Coma Again" sung by Japanese rock band Luna Sea with DJ Krush. This track is only included on the Japanese album release as this song only played during the closing credits of the Japanese release of the movie.

    - After the Arnold/Garbage effort failed to chart in the U.S despite a good deal of promotion, MGM returned to the concept of using a major artist for the title song.

    - The soundtrack album of this film includes a song titled "Only Myself to Blame" sung by Scott Walker. Originally, David Arnold intended to use this song during the end credits, but a techno remix of the James Bond theme was used instead. This film is the first in the series since OHMSS to end with a reprise of the James Bond theme rather than a specialized song.

    - In 2000, the film was adapted by Electronic Arts to create a first-person shooter of the same name for the Nintendo 64 and PlayStation. Incidentally, The World Is Not Enough was the last Bond title to appear on either console. The Nintendo 64 version was developed by Eurocom and the PlayStation version was developed by Black Ops. Versions of The World Is Not Enough for the PC and the PlayStation 2 were planned for release in 2000, but both were cancelled. These versions would have used the ID Tech 3 game engine. Although this game marks Pierce Brosnan's fifth appearance in a Bond video game, the game includes only his likeness; the character is voiced by someone else.


    FLEMING AND OTHER REFERENCES-


    - The film's title, "The World is Not Enough" is the translation of the Latin motto, "Orbis non sufficit", given to George Lazenby's Bond when he researches his own coat of arms in the 1969 film version of Ian Fleming's On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Producer Barbara Broccoli has also summarized the parallel between the two plots: "With Elektra, Bond thinks he has (again) found Tracy but he's really found Blofeld."

    - A kidnapping of the M character was a subplot of the James Bond novel "Colonel Sun" written by Kingsley Amis. Baku in Azerbaijan was a setting for the 1991 James Bond novel "The Man From Barbarossa" written by John Gardner.

    - Bond novelist Raymond Benson, who had previously adapted Tomorrow Never Dies into a novel, again adapted the screenplay this time written by Neal Purvis, Robert Wade, and Bruce Feirstein into the 4th of his James Bond novel series. The novel follows the film version closely with the exception of several instances. It was here that the "Cigar Girl" became known as Giulietta da Vinci, and he also used the deleted scene from the PTS where Renard is only heard speaking to her in the background while she waits to shoot the man who could have interfered with Bond's escape. It's also better explained as result why she feared him so much that she elected to blow herself up. In addition, here Elektra does not die immediately after Bond shoots her and instead begins to quietly sing before dying. Also, Bond is still carrying his Walther PPK instead of the newer P99.



    CAMEOS-

    Michael G. Wilson: a man at the casino, who opens the door for Elektra and James Bond.

    Ray Brown: The bespectacled wheel clamper soaked by Bond during the Thames boat chase. His cameo was a topical 'revenge' gag for the public, as he had been the most prominent star of a BBC fly-on-the-wall series called "Clampers", where his over-zealous behavior and apparent enjoyment of clamping illegally parked cars had made him a figure of popular hate.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Here's this week's thesis questions for The World Is Not Enough- some may require more than one answer and I hope they are a little more simple than the last batch- deadline for answers is Friday 1PM PST, 4PM EST, 9PM UK time, etc, etc.


    1. The PTS of the film is the longest in the series history before the titles kick in, lasting between 14-15 minutes. In your opinion, is it the best PTS in the series history?


    2. As a reader of many posts here in the MI6 Forum, it is clear that Pierce Brosnan has a certain segment of fans that feel gave his best performance here. Those who prefer other Bond films of his often remark that he is guilty of overacting here. In your estimation, do the detractors have a valid defense to make when criticizing scenes such as his first confrontation with Elektra in her Baku villa regarding Renard using her motto and the "shoulder line" as just one example of why he was better in other movies, or show these examples be blamed on the director and laid at the feet of Michael Apted rather than Pierce himself?


    3. We know that the scriptwriters and director intended to make Elektra King into the first female lead villain in the series. Did the filmmakers (a) succeed in their aims, or (b) do the many scenes that show that she and Renard are clearly working together per the correct medical definition of "Stockholm Syndrome", and none showing her actually giving him orders, valid reasons to say that the concept as it was realized on screen was at best not made clear, or at worst an outright failure? Choose one answer, and if your answer is premise (a), where exactly did the script show how Renard answered to Elektra as a henchman as opposed to agreeing with her aims as said active partner?


    4. In previous films, we have seen the character of M out of his/her office on occasion. In this film however, M puts herself and her treasure trove of vital national security information in harm's way to try and protect her friend Sir Robert King's daughter, as well as to perhaps try to make up for advising him not to pay the ransom her kidnappers had demanded. This concept has been heavily criticized by the fan base as an irrational and dangerous decision that a real life intelligence chief would have never done, and one that would have been left to subordinates. Answer "yes" if you agree that it was an irrational decision that should been kept out of the script, or "no" if you feel it was necessary in this case, why it was, and perhaps was it purposely written to establish the beginning of trust issues that would establish Dench M's relationship with Bond for the remainder of her tenure?


    5. Now for a true multiple choice question. The character of Valentin Zukovsky is often cited as the funniest and most beloved support character in the Brosnan tenure by fans and critics. And yet if you compare him to other popular characters reprised during the Connery and Moore eras, he had far less scenes. There are myriad reasons he might have been reprised. Was it (a) a producer decision as made by EON due to popularity and a tradition of doing so as a type of glue to define certain movies and eras, (b) that because the story partially took place in a former republic of the USSR and it was a natural circumstance that made the producers think this was an ideal circumstance for a reprise, (c) a case of necessity in order to inject some humor in a script that otherwise lacked it, or (d) all of the above.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2013 Posts: 12,480
    Oh good heavens, this will take me some time to answer! You are making me wake up and think about TWINE, which is certainly rare for me. Especially before breakfast. But SirHenry challenges and duty calls, so here I go:

    1) This is definitely one of my favorite PTS's. Hmmm. For now, my favorite PTS is Skyfall (for me, it is brilliant and relevant), followed closely by TSWLM/TLD, then TWINE. I think. So it is not my very favorite, but it is one of the best and I enjoy watching it very much. I don't mind the length. I do think if they had stopped with just the escape from the bank building it would not have been sufficient. I'm so glad the Thames boat ride came along - quite well done! And I enjoy the underwater tie straightening (thanks, Pierce), same as I enjoyed Daniel Craig straightening his cuffs in Skyfall after he fell through into the train (thanks, Daniel). TWINE's is exciting and fun. I thought Pierce was very good indeed throughout and handled the whole bank building scene smoothly (great escape!), and I loved the boat chase on the Thames. All very Bondian for me. :)

    2) For me, Brosnan's best performance overall is TND; solid throughout. In TWINE, he was very good in parts (PTS through and up until meeting Dr. Jones), a bit off the mark in his falling for Elektra (probably was directed to do that, based on script and director and producers comments) but I didn't buy it. I think because, no matter how he acted it, I didn't like that element of the story. I didn't think James Bond would fall so quickly, so hard for her. This was not a rookie Bond. I have to say I do not find other scenes to quite so be wrong or bad. I liked the way he reacted to hearing Elektra quote Renard's motto. Others site the Elektra chair/screw scene with Pierce as not well done but I don't find anything wrong with it. I do like how he kills her. TWINE, in the bulk of it, is up and down for me in satisfaction and the ending with the sinking sub is not completely as exciting or satisfying as I'd like. And Robert Carylyle far underplayed Renard, so whose fault that, too? I blame the director and actors involved - but for me, the director takes higher responsibility because he is telling them how to play it and makes the choice of scenes to be printed.

    3) B - For me, Elektra is not the main villain. If that was the point, they didn't deliver on it. Renard was the main villain, Elektra a strong 2nd. They could have shown more of the Stockholm syndrome influence (that was interesting) and they definitely should have shown her ordering Renard if she was supposed to to the main villain; they didn't.

    4) YES it was an irrational decision to have M act the way she did and get kidnapped. I hated her actions in much of this film; it was disappointing and irritating to me. I love Judi, but this M did not act like the M I believed in. Stupid and unnecessary.

    5) Oh, I think D - all of the above. Coltrane just brought so much fun and enthusiasm and great heart to this wonderful character. I am only sorry they killed him off - but how magnificent a scene is that, he and Pierce together and Valentin saving Pierce. I loved the acting and the poignancy of that scene. Every moment Valentin is onscreen is a delight. The whole caviar building take down was fun because of him. He gave a much needed jolt of fun, a great character.

    TWINE has some fun moments, but some "oomph" was missing off and on throughout the film, except for the fine PTS. And I do love Q and Bond in TWINE. I think Pierce and Desmond had wonderful chemistry in their films together.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    1. It certainly is a GRAND PTS, and definitely ONE of the best... I was tempted to jump and say it was the best, but GF's was just so sweet, and TLD's is my
    favourite... but wow, it has so much CONTENT... I guess that's a reluctant 'no'.

    2. The detractors just don't like Pierce's style- I *never* thought he overacted as Bond, not even in Taffin heh heh.

    3. On the surface she came off as sort of a partner with a better view of the big picture, but to ME she was in control the whole time. The answer then is 'B' that it wasn't made clear enough for the main audience.

    4. It was the only really stupid part of the film IMO. The way they recycled the idea in SF made WAAAY more sense.

    5. D. That was easy. :))
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    1. Not at all, although I like this PTS I think it is too long. For me, the PTS of CR is by far the best of the series.


    2. As I said before I think Brosnan's best performance was in TND. In TWINE he started overacting in my opinion and that hurt (no pun intended) the final result. I always get the feeling that Brosnan is one of those actors who needs to be told precisely what to do by a competent director in order to give good (even great) performances (e.g. Ghost Writer), otherwise, when left to his own devices, he goes overboard. I don't blame Michael Apted for his performances because he has done the same kind of acting with other directors, sadly.


    3. I think that somehow they succeded in making Elektra the first main female villain of the series. I really like the character and how it is played by the wonderful Sophie Marceau. I was always confused with the relashionship between Elektra and Renard though, and I think the script and the director are to blame for not making it completely clear but I wouldn't call it a failure. Now I think they were partners in the entire thing, he's less a henchman than a man in love willing to do anything for the woman he loves. He knows he will die and is ready to die for her.


    4. Yes! I think this issue was not well handled. I have nothing against M being more involved in the story (I loved SF after all), but she is so out of character, useless here that it doesn't seem like the same balsy character we see in other installments.


    5. I love Zukovsky, this character might have been a disaster had it not been in the trusty hands of Robbie Coltrane. Every little detail of what he does on screen in perfect. I think I will go with option d for this one, he was a popular choice, the story location was, somewhat, adequate, and they were in dire need of a little humour (good one in this case).
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 3,494
    @Sandy- I am completely confused by your response to thesis question #3. If you are saying it is "premise a" and that the movie succeeds in making Elektra the lead villain, then please show where Renard was taking orders from Elektra. Everything you said from "I was always confused" going forward fits the "premise B" answer.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    @Sandy- I am completely confused by your response to thesis question #3. If you are saying it is "premise a" and that the movie succeeds in making Elektra the lead villain, then please show where Renard was taking orders from Elektra. Everything you said from "I was always confused" going forward fits the "premise B" answer.

    Let me see if I can make my opinion clearer. I think Elektra and Renard were both main villains, they were partners, but Renard was working more for her profit than her for his. I don't think it was Stockholm syndrome, but more of an inverted form (I don't know if it exists). So I propose a premise c, shared villainy, partnership in crime, manipulation of the captor by the hostage.
  • If they were both main villains and partners, then I will put you down for "premise b". Not that your "premise c" doesn't have some validity in the story told here regarding manipulation of the captor by the hostage, but according to my late wife's best friend, a doctor herself and a professor of psychology who has studied the Stockholm Syndrome phenomena, this wouldn't necessarily prove "premise a" and for our purposes here, would only confuse the issue.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    If they were both main villains and partners, then I will put you down for "premise b". Not that your "premise c" doesn't have some validity in the story told here regarding manipulation of the captor by the hostage, but according to my late wife's best friend, a doctor herself and a professor of psychology who has studied the Stockholm Syndrome phenomena, this wouldn't necessarily prove "premise a" and for our purposes here, would only confuse the issue.

    Fine by me, I'm no psychologist :D
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Wow, some proper questions her @SirHenry.
    btw all confusing talk and spelling mistakes are due to beeing very tired and some lovely white wine which I'll be drinking next to some red meat. Yes, I know, it's that bad, but the wine is good and I can't be bothered to change my drink.

    Right, off to thesis 1:
    No, it's not my favorite PTS, that's CR's by a mile and a half. But it makes for a proper second and it's length didn't bother me one bit.

    2:
    I'm most definately in the overacting camp. Maybe this is his worst, when it comes to acting. Obviously the next one takes the cake storywise. I really love his performance in The Tailor of Panama and The Thomas Crow Affair which rivals the original. Is it Apteds fault? Perhaps, considering he only over-acts in Bond, where it's not wanted. In the scene of Taffin (haven't seen it) he doesn't really over-act, there his character is just like that.

    3:
    B. The Stockholm Syndrome didn't work that well. her falling in love with Renard didn't work for me, she never seemed in love with him, whereas he definately did love her. But she's definately not the main villain. Renard is, the plot tells us so. It's Renard who abducted her in the first plce and it's Renard who's willing to blow Istanbul up even though she's died (even if he doesn't believe that, he's still the main thread).

    4:
    M's out of her character and out of her deapth here. It's a major writing mistake. The head of MI6 decides over life and death. Even if she's lost a good friend, there's no reason to go out in the field. Did 007 fail? send in 008....

    5:
    D. Most likely. Robbie Coltrane is fantastic. Even the far-OTT lines he delivers in such a way it still works ('oh look, we still have four good walls') and my fav.: 'I'm looking for a submarine, it's big and black and the driver is a very good friend of mine!'
    What I just don't get is why Bond still seems so reserved towards Zukovsky. It's so not Bond. We know from the novels Bond warms to people like Zukovsky, even though he knows he'll keep info away from him. He warms to Draco and Kerim Bey, both boistorous criminals who've killed before. And it was Bond himself who gave him the limp. I just don't get it and it annoys me a lot.

    Caviar anyone? Zukovsky's finest!

  • 1. No, it's behind Goldfinger, The Spy Who Loved Me, GoldenEye, and Casino Royale at least. Still quite good, though.


    2. The best of Pierce's performance here might just be his best in the role, but the worst (looking at you, painface) is so awful that it drags it at least below Tomorrow Never Dies. I'm not sure how to rank his other performances. Anyway, I think that most of the blame does go to Brosnan, sadly. Apted probably had a hand in it, but I don't think you can excuse "Knew all about my shoooulder, knew exactly how to huuuurt me," or "What's the point in LEEVING if you can't feel alive?" I can't take away from "I never miss," though. Brilliant line. His performance in the scenes between the pain face and that moment is very good too.

    3. I think Elektra is in the lead. Her lines in the painface scene seem to suggest it, and she at least tells Renard to dive the submarine before Bond shoots her.

    4. It probably was irrational, but at the very least here it was original. They went back to that well again and again in Die Another Day, Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall, and each time there was less reason than the last, except for Skyfall. Even then, I'm glad the mini-tradition seems to have been halted, but then you can't just hire Ralph Fiennes and have him sit behind a desk, hand out orders, and mock/reprimand Bond for being Bond.

    5. Now for a true multiple choice question. The character of Valentin Zukovsky is often cited as the funniest and most beloved support character in the Brosnan tenure by fans and critics. And yet if you compare him to other popular characters reprised during the Connery and Moore eras, he had far less scenes. There are myriad reasons he might have been reprised. Was it (a) a producer decision as made by EON due to popularity and a tradition of doing so as a type of glue to define certain movies and eras, (b) that because the story partially took place in a former republic of the USSR and it was a natural circumstance that made the producers think this was an ideal circumstance for a reprise, (c) a case of necessity in order to inject some humor in a script that otherwise lacked it, or (d) all of the above.

    5. D, but mostly A. He does a great job and lights up both films, and there's no overl campy humor. His death is a sad moment, but it seems they were openly hinting on the DVD Commentary that he didn't actually die, and it would have been nice to see him make a reappearance were it not for the reboot. On the subject of missed opportunities, this would have been a great time for one of Kerim Bey's many sons to make an appearance, although it would have messed with continuity even more (but another hole in the code name theory is all right with me).

    Another note about The World Is Not Enough is its similarity to The Dark Knight Rises. First, TDKR channels Bond the most out of the 3 Dark Knight Saga movies, to the point where the plane destruction feels like a PTS in all but name. Both feature wealthy and kind-hearted business magnates with whom the hero falls in love after losing the person he thought was the love of his life (Bond's was in 1969, so what?). The hero is confronted with a terrorist who seems dedicated to anarchy and chaos and who can't feel pain because of a severe injury he suffered. The hero is wounded throughout the story by either a villain or henchman. In both cases, the business magnate turns out to be in league with the painless terrorist, and it's not particularly clear who is the leader and who is the follower. Both times the relationship is kind of sexual, but not completely, and both times the villainess met the villain while imprisoned. The villain and villainess plan to blow up a nuclear device in the midst of a major urban center. In both cases, the hero foils their plot at the last minute and ends up with a new love whom he met during the adventure.
  • edited October 2013 Posts: 2,341

    @Beatlessansearmuffs

    I know you saw Matrix II. Monica Bellucci was the tall dark haired beauty with that dynamite body. You can't miss her….
  • OHMSS69 wrote:
    @Beatlessansearmuffs

    I know you saw Matrix II. Monica Bellucci was the tall dark haired beauty with that dynamite body. You can't miss her….

    Nice to hear from you, @OHMSS69. Actually, I havent seen more than snippets from Matrix II. The first played too fast & loose with its own "reality" for my tastes, to the point that I really didn't care what happened next...so I gave it a miss. I know lots of people like it, but at the time of its release I just had too many other things going on to pay any attention to this particular film.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Another note about The World Is Not Enough is its similarity to The Dark Knight Rises. First, TDKR channels Bond the most out of the 3 Dark Knight Saga movies, to the point where the plane destruction feels like a PTS in all but name. Both feature wealthy and kind-hearted business magnates with whom the hero falls in love after losing the person he thought was the love of his life (Bond's was in 1969, so what?). The hero is confronted with a terrorist who seems dedicated to anarchy and chaos and who can't feel pain because of a severe injury he suffered. The hero is wounded throughout the story by either a villain or henchman. In both cases, the business magnate turns out to be in league with the painless terrorist, and it's not particularly clear who is the leader and who is the follower. Both times the relationship is kind of sexual, but not completely, and both times the villainess met the villain while imprisoned. The villain and villainess plan to blow up a nuclear device in the midst of a major urban center. In both cases, the hero foils their plot at the last minute and ends up with a new love whom he met during the adventure.

    I have often thought the same thing and I think I even commented on that when TDKR came out :-bd
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Wow! I had not noticed those before. Quite a few similarities, yes.
  • Just a reminder that thesis questions are due tomorrow 9pm UK time, 4PM EST, 1PM PST, et ceterah, et ceterah ;)
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