DIE ANOTHER DAY: First 30 minutes perfect?

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  • Posts: 17,757
    Exactly right. I utterly detest it with the burning intensity of a billion suns. I felt mortified to be a Bond fan when I was sat in the cinema.

    This was me watching SP at the cinema. At least I managed to have fun with DAD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    cwl007 wrote: »
    I don't think Brosnan actually believed it himself I just think Mr B is a professional and will positively spin whatever project he is employed on, as we all do in our jobs.

    It's certainly possible, but keep in mind this film also features Bond getting captured and tortured in North Korea for 14 months. Then you have half of the film where he's a rogue agent doing things on his accord, wanting to find out who the MI6 mole was. I think those elements really made a big impression on Brosnan. If you told anyone in 2002 that those things would happen in the next Bond film it would sound not only shocking but ballsy. There hadn't been a Bond film that threw the formula away like that since LTK.

    Of course, once you saw the film as a whole it's a very different story.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    @DrClatterhand is trolling rather nicely I see. Funny how he comments on a thread about a film he sees no redeeming features.

    Back to the matter at hand, those videos were interesting. I found the Tamouri and Berry ones too choppy to watch. But I really enjoyed the Brosnan interview. I think he believed what he was saying. Based on the directors track record it should have been grittier. But I think Lee found shiny new toys to play with and started to do and ask for too much.

    An interesting question is who had the best send off as Bond...bypassing George.

    Connery DAF or if you go unofficial NASA
    Moore AVTAK
    Dalton LTK
    Brosnan DAD
    Craig NTTD

    I would argue that only Dalton had a quality film send him off. Course at the time we didn't realize it would be his last film. Time will tell if Daniel has a good send off.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    thedove wrote: »
    An interesting question is who had the best send off as Bond...bypassing George.

    Connery DAF or if you go unofficial NASA
    Moore AVTAK
    Dalton LTK
    Brosnan DAD
    Craig NTTD

    I would argue that only Dalton had a quality film send him off. Course at the time we didn't realize it would be his last film. Time will tell if Daniel has a good send off.

    We also didn’t know DAD would be Brosnan last film at the time. He still held the role up to 2004.

    As far as last films go, I don’t think either of them are “good” but I enjoy DAF the most out of all of them.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Of those three send off films I would take AWTAK every day of the week! I am very confident NTTD will be significantly better though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,421
    jobo wrote: »
    Of those three send off films I would take AWTAK every day of the week! I am very confident NTTD will be significantly better though.

    Yes I'm with you there!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    DAD is definitely an odd duck. The PTS is decent. The meeting with M in the hospital and the scenes in Cuba up to when Jinx comes on. The sword fight was an interesting concept. The rest is pretty meh/bad. However I will rank the car chase as one of the best in the series and how they incorporated that within the Ice palace. I was 14 when it came out and I loved every moment of it. It hasn't aged well and I have little desire to watch it. The radical departure from Brosnans first three films was too much.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    DAD is definitely an odd duck. The PTS is decent. The meeting with M in the hospital and the scenes in Cuba up to when Jinx comes on. The sword fight was an interesting concept. The rest is pretty meh/bad. However I will rank the car chase as one of the best in the series and how they incorporated that within the Ice palace. I was 14 when it came out and I loved every moment of it. It hasn't aged well and I have little desire to watch it. The radical departure from Brosnans first three films was too much.

    This is how I feel about a lot of it too. I've often seen people talk about a steady decline in the Brosnan era and how DAD was a natural bottom to that decline. I don't feel that way at all. TWINE has its problems but tonally, DAD is a serious nosedive (especially after the first third) and 50% of the film doesn't fit with the rest of the Brosnan era at all. This may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you see the others, of course, but nevertheless it is a stark contrast to something like AVTAK, which is fairly consistent with the rest of the Moore era films (even if it is of significantly lower quality).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2020 Posts: 6,304
    The escapist feel of DAD's second half is more like GE than the other Brosnan films.

    Tonally and visually TND and TWINE go together better.

    But the latter three all have a goofy (lack of) transition to silliness in the action scenes. Unlike GE.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I don't think there's anything in DAD beyond the pre-titles sequence that is reminiscent of GE at all, personally. I'd also put GE and TND together like a hand in a glove in the escapist stakes, too.

    But I suppose we'd have to draw a line in the sand where escapism meets pure fantasy. I can easily suspend my disbelief for the first three films, but DAD goes so far into the fantastical that it's hard to see any connections.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I don't think there's anything in DAD beyond the pre-titles sequence that is reminiscent of GE at all, personally. I'd also put GE and TND together like a hand in a glove in the escapist stakes, too.

    But I suppose we'd have to draw a line in the sand where escapism meets pure fantasy. I can easily suspend my disbelief for the first three films, but DAD goes so far into the fantastical that it's hard to see any connections.

    Yes, I think DAD is actually nothing like any of the other Bond films. The parody in it, the ridiculous one liners, the bad CGI, the OTT crap, it feels much closer to Austin Powers than a Bond film.

    Its closest relation is probably MR, but even that has its serious moments (and with the centrifuge scene it gives us one of the best scenes in the entire franchise). MR has its faults, but they are nowhere near as bad as DAD. Barry's soundtrack, exciting opening PTS, the Barry scored fantasy snake scene opening, it has very nice moments in the film.

    DAD has no redeeming features whatsoever.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I don't think there's anything in DAD beyond the pre-titles sequence that is reminiscent of GE at all, personally. I'd also put GE and TND together like a hand in a glove in the escapist stakes, too.

    But I suppose we'd have to draw a line in the sand where escapism meets pure fantasy. I can easily suspend my disbelief for the first three films, but DAD goes so far into the fantastical that it's hard to see any connections.

    Yes, I think DAD is actually nothing like any of the other Bond films. The parody in it, the ridiculous one liners, the bad CGI, the OTT crap, it feels much closer to Austin Powers than a Bond film.

    Its closest relation is probably MR, but even that has its serious moments (and with the centrifuge scene it gives us one of the best scenes in the entire franchise). MR has its faults, but they are nowhere near as bad as DAD. Barry's soundtrack, exciting opening PTS, the Barry scored fantasy snake scene opening, it has very nice moments in the film.

    DAD has no redeeming features whatsoever.

    I wouldn't say "no redeeming features" but the few that it does have (Brosnan's performance, Arnold's music, the PTS, the sword fight etc.) are heavily overshadowed by the bad attributes to the point where the bad stuff is immediately the first thing you think of and linger on. They're just incredibly hard to shake from memory. All of my least favourite Bond films (DAF, MR, AVTAK, and DAD) have this trait in common.
  • Posts: 7,507
    I am afraid I can't agree with people who hold Brosnan's performance as a redeeming feature in DAD. I agree that he is not particularly bad, but he is not particularly good either. The fact that the script is bad can be used as an excuse, but it cannot be used as argument to hail his performance as better than it actually. Besides, pretty much anyone would look good compared to Stephens and Berry in this particular film...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,421
    jobo wrote: »
    I am afraid I can't agree with people who hold Brosnan's performance as a redeeming feature in DAD. I agree that he is not particularly bad, but he is not particularly good either. The fact that the script is bad can be used as an excuse, but it cannot be used as argument to hail his performance as better than it actually. Besides, pretty much anyone would look good compared to Stephens and Berry in this particular film...

    He is a movie star in it though, where it needed one. I agree it wasn't a stunning pure acting performance, but it is a charismatic one and he gives the movie a centre. Someone like Dalton would've made it more convincing in parts I'm sure, but he would have disappeared in the middle of all the big stuff in the way that Brosnan doesn't.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    I am afraid I can't agree with people who hold Brosnan's performance as a redeeming feature in DAD. I agree that he is not particularly bad, but he is not particularly good either. The fact that the script is bad can be used as an excuse, but it cannot be used as argument to hail his performance as better than it actually. Besides, pretty much anyone would look good compared to Stephens and Berry in this particular film...

    He is a movie star in it though, where it needed one. I agree it wasn't a stunning pure acting performance, but it is a charismatic one and he gives the movie a centre. Someone like Dalton would've made it more convincing in parts I'm sure, but he would have disappeared in the middle of all the big stuff in the way that Brosnan doesn't.

    Exactly.
  • Funnily enough, DAD is a notable precursor to the direction the Fast & Furious franchise has taken in its last few films... just upping the ante of ridiculous action. Vin Diesel or Dwayne Johnson would've been natural fits in DAD.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    Great point @GeneralGogol I recently watched Underground 6 on Netflix and what started out with a good idea quickly dove into the fantasy world. However it was an entertaining ride and I find DAD is similar. Entertaining piece!
  • Posts: 3,327
    thedove wrote: »
    Great point @GeneralGogol I recently watched Underground 6 on Netflix and what started out with a good idea quickly dove into the fantasy world. However it was an entertaining ride and I find DAD is similar. Entertaining piece!

    `DAD' and `entertaining'.

    Hmmmm, interesting. Words I never would have thought to share the same sentence.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I find DAD vastly more entertaining than TND and TWINE, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a film I consider "good". It's just entertainingly bad in a way that it's never boring like the other two Brosnan films.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    To be fair, even the game and otherwise talented Pike is saddled with horrible dialogue that she can't pull off. The problem is the script, compounded by the direction.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    A James Bond film has more than enough going for it, that it can't be disliked completely....that's what makes it different from other films. A Gunbarrel Sequence, A PTS, A Title Sequence, A Song, A Distinctive Score, Creative Action Scenes, Gadgets, Beautiful Women, Exotic Locales,etc. One of these will definitely get one to like a Bond film....even if it's not a favourite.
  • Posts: 7,507
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    A James Bond film has more than enough going for it, that it can't be disliked completely....that's what makes it different from other films. A Gunbarrel Sequence, A PTS, A Title Sequence, A Song, A Distinctive Score, Creative Action Scenes, Gadgets, Beautiful Women, Exotic Locales,etc. One of these will definitely get one to like a Bond film....even if it's not a favourite.

    That doesn't help if those elements are done badly. By the same logic I could say any film is enjoyable because it has a collection of images, actors and sounds.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I always thought that there are some elements to this film that even for those that despise it can find slightly tolerable.

    The prisoner exchange

    Bond meeting with Raoul before he meets Jinx and after the clinic scenes. I've always liked the chemistry between Bond and Raoul.

    The sword fight minus Madonna.

    Bond getting reinstated.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    jobo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    A James Bond film has more than enough going for it, that it can't be disliked completely....that's what makes it different from other films. A Gunbarrel Sequence, A PTS, A Title Sequence, A Song, A Distinctive Score, Creative Action Scenes, Gadgets, Beautiful Women, Exotic Locales,etc. One of these will definitely get one to like a Bond film....even if it's not a favourite.

    That doesn't help if those elements are done badly. By the same logic I could say any film is enjoyable because it has a collection of images, actors and sounds.

    Yeah, but the elements can't be bad all at once. Just to mention a few, TMWTGG has Barry's Score & Christopher Lee's Performance, AVTAK has Duran Duran's Song & Barry's Score, LTK has a Stern Timothy Dalton Performance. And amongst other things, DAD has David Arnold's Score.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    I've always enjoyed Die Another Day, it's a fun romp and very much a product of its time. The dialogue and some of the additions of CGI (mostly the tsunami and force lightning) bother me, but beyond that I find it an enjoyable celebration of the good, the bad and the absolutely ridiculous that this franchise has to offer.

    It's basically video game Bond brought to the big screen.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Agent_47 wrote: »
    I've always enjoyed Die Another Day, it's a fun romp and very much a product of its time. The dialogue and some of the additions of CGI (mostly the tsunami and force lightning) bother me, but beyond that I find it an enjoyable celebration of the good, the bad and the absolutely ridiculous that this franchise has to offer.

    It's basically video game Bond brought to the big screen.

    Some of us think of the EON game as a 5th Brosnan film and that has nanobots and platinum tanks.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    There are positives among the madness that is Die Another Day, IMO. I personally think it's Brosnan's best performance as Bond. Bond being tortured and being genuinely roughed up is an idea lacking from the Brosnan era and it's nice to see here. The sword fight between Graves and Brosnan is brilliant, IMO. The introduction of Graves himself is memorable. The opening 30 minutes perfect? Well, it's been a while since I've watched Die Another Day but I loathe the CGI bullet in the GB sequence. OTT, but then again look at the rest of the film. The title song from Madonna is up there with Alicia Keys & Jack White as one of the worst in the series. I don't like the idea of Bond surfing, particularly as it almost seems they included it so that later in the film when Brosnan surfs the CGI wave you believe he'd be able to. The interception of the helicopter and the subsequent hovercraft chase are enjoyable, IMO. As mentioned, Bond being tortured is great to see, but I find the exchange for Zao a bit naff. I do like Brosnan's swagger when he escapes the hospital having been given the kiss of life and walking into the hotel. Bond in Cuba and meeting Raoul also has it's moments. I like the Fleming reference with Bond examining the book Birds of The West Indies of which his iconic name originated from. The fact that Bond introduces himself to Halle Berry as an ornithologist is also a nice nod. I think that's the first 30 minutes? You get a sense that the film completely nosedives the minute Jinx is introduced to the film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2020 Posts: 16,421
    I often think it has a weirdly cheap feel, with lots of it appearing to have been shot on the backlot.
    Is it the only Bond film where the main cast don't appear in any of the locations the film is set in (apart from the country the studio is in of course!)?
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    It's Bond for little boys. It's Bond meets xXx. The fact it exists makes me angry. How did EoN get it all so spectacularly wrong? It's flabbergastingly confusing. I could have shat a better film. At least we got Craig and Casino Royale as a result of this Batman And Robin level failure.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,421
    It's Bond for little boys.

    Isn't that... Bond?

    rt26101_corgi-261-aston-martin-db5_1.jpg
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