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Why Octopussy is Roger's most perfect Bond movie

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
edited January 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 17,801
Better endings for the villains than in LALD.
More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG.
Not as simply spectacle-driven as TSWLM, focusing more on character & plot.
More internally tonally consistent than FYEO, as well as having a superiour PTS, better overall action, a finer score and prettier women.
Roger is in better shape than in AVTAK and sells the action much better, and Tanya Roberts isn't in it.

So there you have it. Agree? Disagree? Other reasons why it's his best?


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Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Agree. And it has the most suspenseful plot of any of the Moore films, although the return to India is anticlimactic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I though Orlov & Khan were Moore's toughest & most interesting villains (though I really liked Lee's Scaramanga quite a bit).
  • Sammm04Sammm04
    Posts: 479
    echo wrote:
    Agree. And it has the most suspenseful plot of any of the Moore films, although the return to India is anticlimactic.

    I always thought that, but for me, it was just like they skipped one scene and said "oh forgot to mention, Bond's back in India now." Why did Kamal even go back in the first place, he could have just driven to Russia, he would have been safe there.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Disagree because as you may have read in the originals thread, the first half with it's excess of sight and sound gags in certain scenes made the film a bit inconsistent in comparison to the second half when Bond goes to Germany.

    My vote will always go to FYEO as Roger's best performance and movie, I find his portrayal to be what I look for in Bond and the gags are kept to much more of a minimum while providing an even better Cold War feel like the classic Connery films did.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2013 Posts: 17,801
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    My vote will always go to FYEO as Roger's best performance and movie, I find his portrayal to be what I look for in Bond and the gags are kept to much more of a minimum while providing an even better Cold War feel like the classic Connery films did.
    Whoah I totally disagree here. I'll take a quick "hiss off" or Tarzan yell over that nonsense about "digging two graves", or the "stainless steel" smokestack killing of Blofeld, or the final scene where Maggie is talking to a parrot. :O
  • toddmthatchertoddmthatcher
    Posts: 28
    Very interesting post... upon rewatching Octopussy a couple weeks ago, I was struck by how much how truly enjoyed it and don't fully understand its mostly negative reputation. That being said, Spy Who Loved Me is undoubtedly my personal fave of the Moore era, but Octopussy is probably second.

    http://toddmthatcher.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/the-007-files-octopussy/
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I still think that A View to a Kill is Roger's best, and then For Your Eyes Only, but Octopussy is next in line after those two, and on a good day, OP might take the second place spot away from FYEO, since both are pretty evenly matched in my book.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    chrisisall wrote:
    Better endings for the villains than in LALD.
    More eventful and exciting than TMWTGG.
    Not as simply spectacle-driven as TSWLM, focusing more on character & plot.
    More internally tonally consistent than FYEO, as well as having a superiour PTS, better overall action, a finer score and prettier women.
    Roger is in better shape than in AVTAK and sells the action much better, and Tanya Roberts isn't in it.

    So there you have it. Agree? Disagree? Other reasons why it's his best?


    I concur Sir - you have gained the Wizards approval, no mean feat when you think of some of the lunacy I have to trawl through on here.

    I think OP is probably my favourite slice of Rog. Classic Moore all the way but then ramps it up with a breathlessly tense third act with which few other Bonds can compete.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I prefer TSWLM but OP is definetly in my top 10. One of the most underrated films of the series.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    chrisisall wrote:
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    My vote will always go to FYEO as Roger's best performance and movie, I find his portrayal to be what I look for in Bond and the gags are kept to much more of a minimum while providing an even better Cold War feel like the classic Connery films did.
    Whoah I totally disagree here. I'll take a quick "hiss off" or Tarzan yell over that nonsense about "digging two graves", or the "stainless steel" smokestack killing of Blofeld, or the final scene where Maggie is talking to a parrot. :O

    We'll have to agree to disagree then. I find the two graves line very relevant to the storyline and I'll take the last two because at least Blofeld is more believably killed than in DAF and Janet Brown is far funnier than any part of the jungle and street chases except for Rog's "economy tour" quip.



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    I find the two graves line very relevant to the storyline

    Well, yeah, it's VERY relevant, it's just not very Bond IMO. Didn't he just murder Blofeld in the PTS for REVENGE!? @-)
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    What happened in the beginning of DAF doesn't excuse how it all ended.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2013 Posts: 17,801
    Okay forget the PTS, "Before setting off on revenge, you must first dig two graves." Really? James, are you high right now? Do as I say, not as I do? How many times have you killed for revenge of one kind or other?
    If I were her, I would have replied, "There is a useful four letter word, and you're full of it."
    It may fit the movie & the scene, but it's a bit removed from any characterization of Bond I accept. [-(
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    I think he's simply reminding her that revenge is a dangerous dish and that she's out of her depth as a citizen messing with people like professional assassins and those with the power and money to hire the better ones. Bond is the professional here who is equipped with the experience to get her a measure of revenge (which he doesn't even think about until Ferrara is killed) and the backing of a powerful government and their intelligence agency. He's being protective which is within his character and that's simply how I see it :)
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Gets revenge on his arch enemy for killing his wife.

    "Before setting off on revenge, you must first dig two graves"

    A few years later he quits his job in the name of revenge. James Bond is such a hypocrite :))
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Gets revenge on his arch enemy for killing his wife.

    "Before setting off on revenge, you must first dig two graves"

    A few years later he quits his job in the name of revenge. James Bond is such a hypocrite :))

    How right you are! Bond can be very self serving and occasionally hypocritical as well.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    Bond can be very self serving and occasionally hypocritical as well.
    Wow, when you put it that way... guess it just makes him seem all the more human. Okay, maybe I made too big a fuss about that particular point.
    :-?
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    edited January 2013 Posts: 1,492
    Double post
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    chrisisall wrote:
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    I find the two graves line very relevant to the storyline
    e

    Well, yeah, it's VERY relevant, it's just not very Bond IMO. Didn't he just murder Blofeld in the PTS for REVENGE!? @-)

    Of course its relevant. Half of fyeo is a revenge story

    Also the pts isnt about revenge its about taking out blofeld as that is bonds job.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Well he does...kind of...get revenge even if its not stated directly.He visits his dead wife's grave then, a few minutes later, chooses to kill the man responsible for her death. 
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Well why didn't he fly the helicopter to MI6 (or shake Blofeld off onto a roof from a low height, land, nab him, then fly to MI6), or maybe take him to some safe house or something then get MI6 to take him in, instead of dropping him down a chinmey?

    He did it because he wanted revenge for him killing his wife, at least that's how I see it.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Gets revenge on his arch enemy for killing his wife.
    )

    That didn't seem to cross his mind when he killed Blofeld, one of the big inconsistencies of FYEO (which I love overall): Bond grieves Tracy, then he says a few puns to her murderer before dispatching him.

    Back on topic, I think FYEO is Moore's best Bond, minus the few bits of silliness. OP however is still great and it has by far the most believable Moore Bond girl. And it is maybe the most suspenseful of all of Moore's Bonds.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I suppose its debatable whether Bond killed "Blofeld" out of revenge or just because he had the opportunity. Its not like Kaulfman's death which was revenge with a captial R.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Well he does...kind of...get revenge even if its not stated directly.He visits his dead wife's grave then, a few minutes later, chooses to kill the man responsible for her death. 

    John glen stated that tracys grave was shown for continuity. No mention of revenge.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    I agree that revenge on Blofeld for Tracy was something he'd have never forgotten or not took when given the opportunity. The fact that he quips about it a little is probably done to offset the generally "very serious for a Moore vehicle" script. Mostly I think this was done more for a few laughs and not something they thought too deeply about when writing it. Their way of laughing at McGlory's constant legal injunctions towards Blofeld and SPECTRE for any use and thumbing their nose at him, while more convincingly killing off a character whose time had come and gone despite numerous opinions that he should be somehow resurrected.

    I would like to see a new, updated criminal mastermind behind QUANTUM before a retread.

  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    The PTS of FYEO is odd. A serious moment of reflection with Bond at Tracy's gravestone followed by a daft cheesy killing of supposedly Blofeld. The PTS in Octopussy is miles better and is only 2nd to TSWLM in the Moore era. For me Octopussy is my 2nd favourite Moore film after TSWLM.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Ludovico wrote:
    OP however is still great and it has by far the most believable Moore Bond girl. And it is maybe the most suspenseful of all of Moore's Bonds.
    It's really the only Moore film that gets my blood pumping near the end- Roger really sells the urgency well! =D>
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    He is great in Germany even while wearing clown and gorilla suit, no question. The fight on top of the plane suspends belief a tad, but not enough to ruin his last great effort. If not for the gags and some lame quips, it could have been Moore's best but for me it's this schizophrenic quality that keeps it below FYEO, LALD, and Spy. Still, it beats the holy hell out of TMWTGG, AVTAK, and MR even with the ways you can compare it to the latter, and is far more comparable to my three Moore favorites in general.

    My 12 year old son by the way agrees with those who rate OP as Moore's best. I raised him in Bond to make his own opinions and choices and never try to influence him in that regard, I want him to be his own man.
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:

    My 12 year old son by the way agrees with those who rate OP as Moore's best. I raised him in Bond to make his own opinions and choices and never try to influence him in that regard, I want him to be his own man.

    Good to hear and so it should be. My own son is far too young yet but when the time is right, he will be given the chance to embrace Bond and follow his own preference. I just hope he doesn't turn round and say that he hates the movies and the character. If he does, I might have to consider disowning him!! ;)
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I always have a soft and sentimental spot for OP. It has always been my favorite of the Moore Bonds. I liked the PTS, the action sequences like the train fights, the assault on the Monsoon Palace, the tiger hunt (despite the silly Tarzan yell), the climax atop the plane.
    I loved the bad guys, Kamal Khan, Gobinda and the knife throwing twins.
    Maud Adams has good chemistry with Roger and Magda is hot.
    The blend between humor and suspense is well done in this entry.
    Moore was starting to look his age, but in spite of this I really consider this to be Moore's Best. Forgive me affiondos but OP trumps TSWLM.
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