Why Octopussy is Roger's most perfect Bond movie

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  • Posts: 1,314
    Re the two graves line

    I always interpret it as once you have killed someone your life will never be the same, and in some cases Will haunt you to an early grave.

    So in effect you will have killed a part if yourself, if that makes sense.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I would have to disagree. I believe AVTAK, Spy and FYEO all have superior scores, better action in Spy and a better Bond girl in Melina Havelock (although Octopussy isn't far behind).

    I think FYEO is more consistent (no Tarzan yell present) and AVTAK has a better henchman/woman in May Day (sorry, but Gobinda feels generic). And I think Moore looks better in AVTAK than Octopussy! Oh and the climax on top of the Golden Gate wins it for me.
  • For the longest time I would always say my favorite Roger Moore Bond was TSWLM, and action wise I think that is the superior film but Octopussy is way more entertaining. Its a movie I can watch over and over and not get tired of.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    And Octopussy looks even better when compared to Never Say Never Again of the same year...
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Louis Jordan is soooo good in that film. This may sound a bit random but after my Die Hard marathon recently part of me wants to say he's the Hans Gruber of the Bond series.

    -Cultured
    -Sophisticated
    -Doesn't care how many people die just as long as he achieves his goal

    "Still the cowboy Mr McClane"
    "You have...a nasty habit...of surviving"

    The main difference to Gruber is that he never actually kills anyone personally.
  • Posts: 12,473
    Octopussy is underrated to an extent, especially since it's hard to get past the ridiculous title haha. To me, The Spy Who Loved Me was Roger Moore's best Bond film, as it still rang of his era but didn't go too over-the-top or too silly like most of his films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Louis Jordan is soooo good in that film. This may sound a bit random but after my Die Hard marathon recently part of me wants to say he's the Hans Gruber of the Bond series.
    Precisely!! =D>
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Louis Jordan is soooo good in that film. This may sound a bit random but after my Die Hard marathon recently part of me wants to say he's the Hans Gruber of the Bond series.

    -Cultured
    -Sophisticated
    -Doesn't care how many people die just as long as he achieves his goal

    "Still the cowboy Mr McClane"
    "You have...a nasty habit...of surviving"

    The main difference to Gruber is that he never actually kills anyone personally.

    Also who could forget. "GET BOND!" ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    "Out there?"
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    chrisisall wrote:
    "Out there?"

    *gives an apprehensive look*
  • "An Englishman. Likes eggs. Preferably Faberge. And dice. Preferably loaded". It's little gems like that that make Jordan's Kamal Khan stand out as awesome.
  • It's awkward. I don't really believe this is Moore's 'most perfect' Bond release, but can see why people would view it so

    It's not as enjoyable as Moonraker or Live and Let Die, but far better than TSWLM and AVTAK. Maybe 1983 was a favorite year from a personal viewpoint that I hold it in higher regard than I really should, but make no mistake about it, there's plenty to get involved in and despite often playing the fool, Moore does well and shows almost early Connery-esque qualities at times, such as the interrogation of Orlov about the bomb device. The 3rd best pre titles sequence (behind TWINE and Moonraker respectively) and you never really get bored. Maud Adams is so much more tolerable than her Andrea Anders character from Golden Gun, and the timeless Louis Jourdan gives a memorable performance

    Even Steven Berkoff has an opportunity to snarl up the screen, getting into character before his Victor Maitland appearance in BHC the following year and there's good support from other names including Llewelyn's Q, who has a bit more to do that year than his previous appearances. The Rita theme song is OK, but the fine pre credits sequence that comes directly before it, more than componsates for a lack of a real theme intro

    Is it Moore's best ? No

    Is it Moore's most perfect Bond movie ? Probably not

    Does it entertain ? Absolutely
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Is it Moore's best ? No
    Is it Moore's most perfect Bond movie ? Probably not
    Does it entertain ? Absolutely
    I'm a fan of all of Moore's movies save MR & AVTAK. FYEO is possibly his best performance, and it's possibly his finest & most Flemingesque movie, but OP just has SO much good stuff packed into it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Have always been a big supporter of OP. It has some daft comedy near the start, but that's never really been a reason to dislike it in my view. Unlike many other Bond movies it actually improves as it goes along and builds to one of the most tense climaxes in the series. And a first class performance from Sir Rog. However, I still rate TSWLM higher overall, partly due to the Ken Adam magic.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,817
    No, OP is not Moore's best, that is TSWLM, but OP comes very close indeed (I have them neck-and-neck in my rankings). I would wager that the film is the most entertaining of the whole franchise.

    Technically speaking, OP is a tonal mess, which is mostly due to Glen's direction, but it's that tonal mess that allows OP to succeed as something inherently unique - something that's light and dark, fun and suspenseful.

    The characters are good for the most part. A good performance from Bond, a nice suave villain in Kamal Khan, and two great Bond girls in Magda and Octopussy.

    Wow, and some of the most breathtaking action and thrills of the entire series! A great PTS with some great mid-air manoeuvres, the best fight in Roger Moore's tenure (yoyo fight), an amazing chase and fight on the train, a blood-pumping race to defuse the bomb, and of course the finale on the back of an aeroplane! WOW! This film is great.

    Of course it has flaws. Orlov is awkwardly overacted, Gobinda is a bit plain, India and Germany are both caricatured, it runs too long, and of course there is one joke too many. But these flaws are minor given how much the film succeeds. Moore's second-best for sure.

    EDIT: 33 years on and the biggest criticism and usually the sole reason casual fans hate the film remains "I don't like the Tarzan swing." Would be interesting to see how high they would see it if there was no swing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    EDIT: 33 years on and the biggest criticism and usually the sole reason casual fans hate the film remains "I don't like the Tarzan swing." Would be interesting to see how high they would see it if there was no swing.
    Or no slide whistle in TMWTGG...
    ;)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    OF COURSE IT IS, BY A MILE :D
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree. TSWLM is Moore's best imho, but OP is my 2nd highest ranked Moore Bond. In fact, these are the two films of his that I have firmly in my top 10.

    TSWLM is more serious overall, and much larger in scale. It perfectly captures one element of Bond that Moore did better than all of them, namely, larger than life.

    OP on the other hand is much more intimate, in that Glen way, but again perfectly captures tonally the other kind of film that Moore did superbly, namely the humorous yet suspenseful Bond film.

    OP is bursting with charisma from the opening scene all the way to the end. It never lets up in this regard. Everyone and everything just 'pops' on the screen. Sure it's a little OTT and camp in places, but that's what gives it its unique charm. The action as noted is absolutely first class, the pacing is incredible for its time, and Moore is definitely in top form in his penultimate Bond, going all out to show the stubborn Connery holdouts that he is the successor they should have embraced from the start.

    OP is a class act. In many ways it reminds me of GE, which is another perennial favourite Bond film of mine, and which also perfectly balances and straddles humour/suspense.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    EDIT: 33 years on and the biggest criticism and usually the sole reason casual fans hate the film remains "I don't like the Tarzan swing." Would be interesting to see how high they would see it if there was no swing.
    Or no slide whistle in TMWTGG...
    ;)

    Indeed. Kananga explosion vs slide whistle vs Jaws in love vs Tarzan swing vs Beach Boys, oh dear. And people complain about the winking fish in LTK...
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    It's my favourite Moore film and second overall Bond film. It's got a lot going for it. It overdoes the silliness a bit but it's all in good fun and not campy like DAF.

    One of the main pluses is Jourdan's performance. He's not a megalomaniac or threatening like Sanchez or Jaws but he steals all the scenes he's in and gets some of the best lines in the franchise.

    It's not a perfect film at all, but there's really nothing I really dislike about OP....maybe the pacing about 1/3 in when he arrives at the Monsoon Palace after getting kidnapped
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,984
    The OP (original poster) mentions why Octopussy is better than each of Moore's other movies, but fails to mention how each of Moore's other movies are better.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    The OP (original poster) mentions why Octopussy is better than each of Moore's other movies, but fails to mention how each of Moore's other movies could be better.

    ?

    But the thread title is "Why Octopussy is Roger's most perfect Bond movie". How the other movies could be made better won't change anything
  • Posts: 4,044
    The OP (original poster) mentions why Octopussy is better than each of Moore's other movies, but fails to mention how each of Moore's other movies could be better.

    Probably because he doesn't think they are.

    I would prefer it if the Bond movies avoid those clunky sight gags, but if they are on screen for 5 seconds it's hard to write off the whole movie over it.

    OP has a suave and charismatic villain and a great Bond vs villain face off (the double sixes moment is a stand out cool 007 moment), whilst in TSWLM Stromberg is totally dull. He often literally just sits there. Drax is something of a re-run of Stromberg yet the great understated performance by Michael Lonsdale and the classic one liners he gets shows how this villain should be done. Plus Jaws is already entering the realm of being an over the top cartoon long before Moonraker. He is iconic but I'd rather have Oddjob or Red Grant.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    The suspense moments are very well done. It's cliche that he saves the day as the counter reaches 0 but the build up to that moment is quite tense. The plot is actually quite serious - except the tone of the film is very uneven. It just happens I like both ends of the spectrum.
  • vzok wrote: »
    OP has a suave and charismatic villain and a great Bond vs villain face off (the double sixes moment is a stand out cool 007 moment), whilst in TSWLM Stromberg is totally dull. He often literally just sits there. Drax is something of a re-run of Stromberg yet the great understated performance by Michael Lonsdale and the classic one liners he gets shows how this villain should be done. Plus Jaws is already entering the realm of being an over the top cartoon long before Moonraker. He is iconic but I'd rather have Oddjob or Red Grant.

    Yeah Khan was a great villain and the backgammon scene is a standout certainly.

    Honestly, I thought Stromberg was a good villain. His introduction at Atlantis with his killing of the traitor via the elevator trap and also the detonation of the helicopter was brilliantly menacing. He doesn't do much later, but he is appropriately low-key. Drax was also a good villain, but not one of the best I'd say, somewhere between all his contrived attempts at killing Bond he is hard to take seriously.

    Oddjob remains the best henchman in my book.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @vzok @w2Bond - Forgive the poor wording in that post I made. I don't mean how the other movies "could be" better, but how they just are better. And maybe the original poster doesn't believe any of Moore's other Bonds have done anything better than OP, but I'd personally call that a rather narrow-sighted perspective. Every Bond movie has its faults that other Bond flicks are simply better at, and that's definitely the case with OP.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited March 2016 Posts: 2,252
    Every Bond movie has its faults that other Bond flicks are simply better at, and that's definitely the case with OP.

    @ForYourEyesOnly
    True all Bond movies have pros and cons. What matters is how much weighting we give them in our own personal rankings. For example, the direction of Glen's films aren't as grand as the Gilbert films, but personally all things considered I like the 80's decade more.

    And for some people any mention of Lazenby is enough to sink OHMSS to bottom place without thought to the movies strengths

  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @w2Bond - I don't think you can ignore just how far OP takes Bond into the realms of parody at times. Most of Moore's other movies had higher esteem for Bond, at least. OP also doesn't have any single moment that is generally considered to be one of the best in the series (for instance, the parachute scene in TSWLM).
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    @ForYourEyesOnly Perhaps not but subjectively I really like it. I think the plane stunt at the end is pretty amazing...done for real.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @w2bond - I love OP too - particularly the action scenes. Roger doesn't feel as robotic in the hand-to-hand fight scenes in the film, and the stunts are some of the series' best. The chases are all really riveting (except the tuk-tuk one).
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