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Think you summed it up perfectly, sir.
:-)) It's just amazing how unaware some native English speakers are when they write things. First things first, the definition of the suffix "esque" is- "In the style of; resembling".
DC, you're a younger guy and I don't want to hammer you over a simple mistake in definition, so please let me share some of my knowledge and experience with you. Your phrases "Bondesque" and "Barryesque" are much more applicable to Arnold than Serra. First of all, Serra's score sounds unlike any other Bond soundtrack, most especially those of John Barry. If you want to compare the complexities and say that Serra's sound is more so than Arnold's, by all means do so if you feel that is true. But by the definition of "esque", your statement regarding Serra is simply not true. The "James Bond Sound" consists of loud brass, lush sweeping strings, etc, it is a recognizable style which is exactly the kind of sound Arnold is going for. If you subscribe to GG's statement that Arnold is aping Barry's Bond sound, which I believe in many areas is indeed true, then that is much closer to the definition of "esque" because at least he is trying to make Bond-like music. His soundtracks sound A LOT more like Barry than Serra ever did in style. Serra's approach is very atonal sounding and much different, and I think he fails to capture anything of Barry's Bond sound. It sounds like a typical bad French movie soundtrack. Same for Legrand's NSNA, neither simply do not fit a Bond movie, and to be frank I also think none of the other "one off" composers of previous Bond films really got it either. But you know what, at least I could hear an attempt and appreciate some of what they were trying to bring to the table as a result. When I hear such Arnold compositions such as "Surrender" and "Vesper's Theme", I'm hearing two songs right there that sound like they belong in a Bond movie and something Barry would have approved of, which are two more songs than I hear on the entire GE soundtrack save the title theme, in which I can tell that Bono and The Edge have a clue what Bond music should sound like. I honestly think Legrand and Serra gave little to no thought of the musical legacy Barry left.
For those who don't know me and are new, I've been a Bond fan for 42 years now. A musician for 35 years, a touring one at times, and a composer as well. I feel I'm more than qualified to speak on both subjects, and I would rather say nothing than bash and repeat myself over and over and over and argue ad nauseum with someone who has a differing opinion. I've seen the NSNA movie and heard the soundtrack enough times over the past 28 years, and heard the GE soundtrack enough times over the past 16 years to know my definition of "atrocious" when I see and hear it, and that what I think of NSNA save Brandauer and Carrera and what I think of the Goldeneye soundtrack as well. I don't care what any Arnold bashers think or say, he isn't Barry and no one is, and he has his faults but I'm mostly happy with his efforts and if he does the Olympics (I am glad for him and hope it goes well) then I rather hear another imitator than the garbage Legrand and Serra wrote any day of the century.
Sir Henry
Regarding NSNA, that has to be one of the very few Bond films I'm not particularly bothered about watching. I remember seeing a fair chunk of it on tv a few years ago and finding it very dull. Maybe I should give it a re-watch but I really can't be bothered to be honest. The fan reviews on the internet haven't exactly been encouraging and the film just looks rather cheap judging from the bits I've seen.
Connery was the definitive actor to play Bond but the role was always there for further interpretations. Young defined the look of the Bonds, the style, the editing, but there was always room for further directors to add their influence.
John Barry was such a brilliant artist, his music so compelling, his theme songs so mesmerising, that it really would take someone truly special to capture the real sound of Bond, yet be sufficiently different to avoid comparison or accusations of mimicry.
So, the bottom line is that you prefer a poor score musically speaking because it sounds like Barry's Bond sound, instead of a much greater score musically speaking but that doesn't sound like the familiar Bond sound.
In other words, you prefer a poorly talented actor because he looks like the traditional James Bond, instead of a much more talented actor but who doesn't look like the Bond image.
That is a very poor and limited way of thinking, IMO.
That said, I don't think it's worth the trouble anyway. I'm fairly convinced myself of the qualities of Serra's score for GE, but I understand why some people hate it. By the same token I like some of Arnold's stuff and I'm willing to defend it vigorously should anyone feel the need to bash and trash it, but again, I'm not surprised that some folks are - to say the least - offended by Arnold's scores.
I'm not a musician, nor am I trained in understanding the arts of composing the way some folks are. My opinion therefore doesn't command obedience but neither does the opinion of the educated musicians. I am thankful for one thing though, and that's the fact that I can sit through a Bond film and worry about other things than the music. No matter how upset I am over some of Arnold's choices for TWINE or DAD for example, they're still the least of my concerns when watching those two.
And now, let us all play along and continue this discussion on thread. I want to nevertheless thank you both for a most entertaining and interesting debate. ;;)
Let's put it this way : One can prefer Zac Efron as an actor than Marlon Brando. But to say the former is more talented than the latter is fundamentally wrong.
There is a difference between not liking/hating a score and denying it's musical greatness.
Sir Henry is of course entitled to his opinion about not liking GE's soundtrack. But when he says Serra's score is musically poor, it is very wrong.
No-one is forced to like good scores, but denying them of their musical greatness is another thing entirely. And it is wrong.
Bassinger is a Bond Girl.
Kind of modern Remake of THUNDERBALL 1965.
One of the Best BOND themes..
built by the Folks who Brought you BRASSIL 66 SERGIO MENDES......
If you are OLD enough to remember that.
i really enjoyed it. the main thing i liked was that it pointed out that 007 was aging and out of shape rather than just having him be superman. whereas octopussy, released at the same time, just carried on as usual despite moores age (i liked moores bond but he should've called it quits after moonraker). There were some great action scenes like the motorbike chase, the videogame scene was cool, the fight at the spa was intresting because again it showed how bond was aging and getting weaker (plus he won by throwing piss in the baddies face, i found that hilarious).
edward fox was cool as M and the whole "im the new M and i dont like bond" thing was done here way before goldeneye.
one more thing, everybody likes to point out that octopussy squashed NSNA at the box office, but really it only beat it by a little bit.
I find NSNA a bit of a curio. I sit there enjoying it but the main let down for me is the hugely evident hash of direction which is strange given the director Kershner (empire strikes back!!)
I also can't forgive the black masking tape across the chase cars grill - if you can't afford to secure the permissions, do something else don't just patch over it - kinda sums up the film in general.
Saying that though I do enjoy it and especially the scenes in the dance studio! "4-5-6-7 down" lucky floor. :-)
Brandauer is also menacing and quirky and raises the film from poor to average.
Connery is more lean than 12 years previous...if only he had had a better swansong from the official series.
And of course, Onatoop's first incarnation.
I find Never Say Never Again a very mixed bag. Barbara Carrera was a great villainess, Klaus Maria Brandaur makes a good villain and truth be told I think Sean Connery looked healthier here than he did in Diamonds Are Forever...he even seems to be having a bit of fun, too. However, the film is far too long and really drags in the last 30 minutes or so. Kim Basinger is only so-so as the lead (Claudine Auger was far better), and Michel Legrand's score is (generally) one of the worst I have ever heard for any motion picture. The other thing is that NSNA seems to be more of a spoof than legit knockoff; it is even sillier than the Moore films (Rowan Atkinson's character, the Q scene, Edward Fox's extreme overacting, Bond winking at the camera at the end....etc.) It would be at the bottom of my Bond lists for me, I'd give Never Say Never Again a 5.5/10...but then again it would beat both Die Another Day and The Man with the Golden Gun.
PS. I don't classify NSNA as a true James Bond film. I do own the film on DVD, but it is not kept with the official Bond films I own...also, when asked to give my ranking of the films, I never include NSNA...but perhaps I should never say never....again. :-W