Never Say Never Again..."Yes, But My Martini's Still Dry"

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  • Posts: 1,146
    Well, bottom of the barrel would be View to a Kill and Octopussy, both of those films are the worst of the official franchise.

    I do like the main theme and title song, but it would have been nice to hear a Barry score to this film, which is the closest thing to a real Bond film since the late sixties.
  • Posts: 1,082
    Well, bottom of the barrel would be View to a Kill and Octopussy, both of those films are the worst of the official franchise.

    I do like the main theme and title song, but it would have been nice to hear a Barry score to this film, which is the closest thing to a real Bond film since the late sixties.

    I think OP & AVTAK are cinematic masterpieces that are pretty much the opposite from the bottom of the barrel. But I agree about the score.

    Beginning with CR67 must be a traumatic experience. I wonder if this first impression will ever let go of the viewer. Perhaps they can never enjoy Bond after that? Bottom of the barrel indeed.

  • Well, bottom of the barrel would be View to a Kill and Octopussy, both of those films are the worst of the official franchise.

    I do like the main theme and title song, but it would have been nice to hear a Barry score to this film, which is the closest thing to a real Bond film since the late sixties.

    Disagree, DAD and MR make any of the other 20 films look great in comparison.

  • Well, bottom of the barrel would be View to a Kill and Octopussy, both of those films are the worst of the official franchise.

    I do like the main theme and title song, but it would have been nice to hear a Barry score to this film, which is the closest thing to a real Bond film since the late sixties.

    Disagree, DAD and MR QOS make any of the other 20 films look great in comparison.

    Fixed ;)
  • Posts: 1,146
    I'll even say that the the title song by Lani Hall is wayyy better then view to a kill or All time high. My god those are awful.
  • I'll even say that the the title song by Lani Hall is wayyy better then view to a kill or All time high. My god those are awful.

    I'm still trying to figure out if you are just having some fun or in reality are "the most tasteless man in the world" and we should sign you up for some commercials :))

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'll even say that the the title song by Lani Hall is wayyy better then view to a kill or All time high. My god those are awful.

    I Dissagree about it being better than ATH and AVTAK but it's way better than the Phyllis Hyman version of NSNA.

  • Posts: 1,146
    I'll even say that the the title song by Lani Hall is wayyy better then view to a kill or All time high. My god those are awful.

    I'm still trying to figure out if you are just having some fun or in reality are "the most tasteless man in the world" and we should sign you up for some commercials :))

    (shrug) I like the picture, think it's a worthy finale to the Connery years and appreciate it's attempt to make a Bond film that tried to be worthy of the original films, and not make fun of them. I see it's flaws, but in perspective, like it so much more than the other eighties Bonds. To me, and it's just my opinion of course, it's a lot of fun.
  • I'll even say that the the title song by Lani Hall is wayyy better then view to a kill or All time high. My god those are awful.

    I'm still trying to figure out if you are just having some fun or in reality are "the most tasteless man in the world" and we should sign you up for some commercials :))

    (shrug) I like the picture, think it's a worthy finale to the Connery years and appreciate it's attempt to make a Bond film that tried to be worthy of the original films, and not make fun of them. I see it's flaws, but in perspective, like it so much more than the other eighties Bonds. To me, and it's just my opinion of course, it's a lot of fun.

    Please don't tell me you're including FYEO and the Dalton films in that statement :(

  • Posts: 1,146
    Absolutely.

    I know you feel different, and that's cool.
  • edited August 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Absolutely.

    I like NSNA too but better than not just OP, but the DALTON FILMS?!?!?!?!?!!

    Nah, sorry. Can't agree at all there. NSNA is a good bit of fun but the Dalton films are Bond at his best imo.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    Since we're talking about the 80's films for the moment, I thought I'd share my ranking of them. These are are in order of favourite/ most enjoyable to watch.

    1. FYEO
    2. TLD (near tie with FYEO)

    3. NSNA/LTK (tie)

    4. OP


    5. AVTAK

    If I could rank them as best story/Bond film:

    1. TLD
    2. FYEO
    3. LTK

    4. OP
    5. AVTAK

    6. NSNA

  • I like NSNA too but better than not just OP, but the DALTON FILMS?!?!?!?!?!!

    Nah, sorry. Can't agree at all there. NSNA is a good bit of fun but the Dalton films are Bond at his best imo.

    Agreed. I like Never Say Never Again, but not more than either of Mr. Dalton's films.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I think I said this somewhere else, but a better editing job and some good ole John Barry could make NSNA one of my favourite Connery movies. In fact there might be an online fan edit somewhere...
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    The best line's film ! Fact.
  • Never Say Never Again wasn't terrible, I just thought it was a disappointment. But there were some positives. It was great to see Sean Connery come back to reprise his role as James Bond & Barbara Carrera I thought was great as Fatima Blush! Also there was great action & great exotic locations.
  • The only reason I ever watch is mainly for Barbara Carrera, better than Basinger incidentally, and some decent action bits and pieces such as 'Control of the World' video game, the fight at the health center, and some decent chases around the South of France, but for the most part, it's a rather lacklustre event, and Klaus Maria Brandauer makes for a disappointing adversary. It seems almost Indiana Jones at times, especially with the final 20 minutes, who they may well have been copying, but it's not a release that excites or feel you really want to view. Not an official Bond release above all else, Connery merely came back in a spoof and had 'a bit of fun' all said

    It's head and shoulders above the other unofficial entry Casino Royale though, I'll give it that
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    for the most part, it's a rather lacklustre event, and Klaus Maria Brandauer makes for a disappointing adversary.
    At the time I liked it a lot because of MR, four years before it...

  • Moonraker has nothing to do with Never Say Never Again, apart from the words James Bond, and even then, the latter wasn't an official Bond film once again

    Brandeur is nothing like the adversary that Lonsdale was also. The latter gave us some standout and forever memorable lines that the former simply couldn't manage

    'Sweet - like money' or 'You appear with the tedious inevitability of an unloved season' etc. Hugo Drax was a one off for quite brilliant lines that year, throughout the release, it's one reason why I enjoy it so much
  • Below is what I said about NSNA a few months back. I just watched it again for the first time in 30 years...wow! Am I really that old?
    I'm really curious to see this again as I believe that I only saw it once when it first came out - and I was 14 years old. At the time I couldn't stand Moore or his films; it was like winning the lottery to hear that Connery was making another Bond film!

    My memories of it are quite vague. I rewatched the "shark attack" scene online before I dove down to the Tears of Allah wreck in the Bahamas (still recognizable despite the wheelhouse being gone) but that was the only scene. From what I can remember we were really impressed with the videogame scene - at the time it was so cool that they were modernizing the world that the characters lived in so that it was recognizable to us. To see Connery as Bond playing a video game seemed the height of coolness to us in '83! I also remember that Barbara Carrerra seemed WAY sexier than the Bond girls in the "real" films. But the lack of traditional elements was a bit of a downer even though we were expecting it; also the humour and tone seemed a little off. But the greatest thing was to see Connery as Bond again. His presence, his effortless charisma, the fact that he looked better than he did in DAF (!) - all that made us so incredibly happy.

    As I said, those were my thoughts as a Connery-worshipping 14 year-old Bond fan in '83. It will be interesting to view the film now!

    So I just watched it and the fact that there wasn't the Moore/Connery rivalry of my youth made me able to watch it more objectively (you were only "allowed" to like either Moore OR Connery, and I was attacked mercilessly for being only one of two guys who preferred "that loser" Connery).

    It's a rather mixed film. It started off not so good; the downbeat feel of the beginning (was it as much a reference to Thatcher's England as it was to Bond's age?) made it less fun to watch. Then it picked up, then really picked up, but then went downhill when they got to Africa.

    The cast - Moneypenny and Q were forgettable but M was atrocious. I always liked the respectful relationship between M and Bond in the early films and thought the change to "exasperated" M really cheapened the EON films. But they take it to a whole other level here. But that's balanced out by an otherwise absolutely phenomenal cast. Brandauer and Von Sydow are excellent and bring dignity and intelligence (and in Brandauer's case, madness) to their roles. But Carrerra steals the show and is one of the sexiest, craziest villianesses in the Bond universe (and Onatopp seems clearly copied from her). Bassinger is a little bland; I remember that everyone my age at the time thought that she was amazingly hot - which I can't fathom now when I compare her and Carrerra (perhaps she seemed too "enthnic" compared to Bassinger; I grew up in a very WASP-y and redneck area). Casey makes a good impression with limited screentime; you can believe that he and Bond are friends and equals and he's the only screen Leiter that captures the rather strange sense of humour that the character had in the books.

    But of course, the main attraction is Connery. It's difficult to be critical of his characterization as there's nothing to compare it to. How do we know what happened to his Bond in the years since being a younger agent? Some people complained that he was playing "someone's horny dad" instead of Bond but I think he did well - clearly more engaged than he had been in the past. He also looked far better (even though he was clearly older) than in DAF. He displayed the effortless charisma that made him a star; the biggest problem is the time that the film was released.

    I found a lot of the film to be somewhat close to the Moore films, in terms of humour, OTT-ness, and instantaneous attraction to Bond by the girls. But I think that it's a case of that's what people expected from a Bond film in the early 80s. It's detrimental to be sure, but even though it wasn't an EON film it was still an 80s Bond film.

    The action was quite well done; the shark attack and the motorcycle chase hold up surprisingly well. The fight at Shrublands was also very good, and it was nice to see that Bond's "I'm too old for this sh!t" performance in the scene changed to him being a fitter, more active agent as the film progressed (a nice touch as he got his "mojo" back after not being active in the field for a long time).

    The plot was pretty standard, the film lacked the exoticness of the best Bond films (perhaps due to them running out of money), but it was a fairly solid effort and in some ways a better swan song for Connery than DAF. Kershner's direction was at times pretty standard but he did add some nice visual touches and some of the humour actually works quite well.

    I can understand why some people would have a knee-jerk reaction of disgust at the very *idea* of this film but there is some good stuff there. Not a great film, but certainly not as bad as some suggest.

  • I never was much of a fan of Kim Basinger, and don't think she's overly attractive, and Barbara Carerra is the better looking of the two, and one main reason why I watch, but apart from that and a few decent bits and pieces, such as the 'Control of the world' video game and the fight at the health center, there really isn't much to report about. It's been said that Connery looks better, or more competent, than he did in Diamonds are Forever, and that may be true, but it's simply not that great of a release
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2013 Posts: 17,789
    I can understand why some people would have a knee-jerk reaction of disgust at the very *idea* of this film but there is some good stuff there. Not a great film, but certainly not as bad as some suggest.
    Rotten Tomatoes rates it 59/47, so it's not universally hated by any means.
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/never_say_never_again/
    But that IS the general audience mainly. Us Bond nuts can be a little harder on it. I personally like it a little, just not enough to own. Love the title song though!
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 1,009
    Sorry to bump such an old topic, and even more being a newbie, buy I want to join the "NSNA Appreciation Society". I just love the movie, even more than TB (always recognizing that it's just my personal taste, and that TB is, neutrally speaking, a way much better film).

    Why? Well, firstly I think it's that 80s B-series feel to it (I know, I know: the budget was actually quite high, but it doesn't show. That's one of the main flaws of this film). The overall aesthetics of it the have always been pure eye candy to me, starting by those opening credits that only lack "A Lorimar Production" to look like a glorified TV movie, the Atari game with its vector graphics, the colorful atmosphere and photography (I greatly admire Douglas Slocombe, so I may be quite biased here), that weird Nice house, good action scenes and that climax in the submarine cave that, yup, should have been more spectacular. Secondly, I think the tongue-in-cheek performance of Connery is brilliant given that the film is just a funny romp like DAF (another guilty pleasure with quite a lot of parallels to this film), and Klaus Maria Brandauer and Barbara Carrera are fine, charismatic villains. I find the title song quite catchy in its own way, the locations are alright, the screenplay is funny (and cheesy), and, overall, I think it's a good action film (but it doesn't belong to the 007 canon, of course). Actually, I like it more than OP (always taking into account that I love all 007 films. even the worst ones have redeeming qualities).

    Of course it's flawed: Except for the title song and Jelaousy, Michel Legrand's score is awful, and so are the FX. Rowan Atkinson, who always manages to be funny, especially in Black Adder, that had its share serious moments (that I W.W. arc...), is annoying as Nigel Small. As stated before, despite its fairly large budget, it looks like a B-series (I don't mind it, but I'm a geeky kind of fellow, so I can't expect the general fandom to share my POV), and the fact that screams 80s is a proof that the film hasn't aged well (same problem I find in TB. Anybody else thinks so?).

    Still, I think that from a geek point of view, some of the flaws happen to be pros as well, and that NSNA is a charming film in its own way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Still, I think that from a geek point of view, some of the flaws happen to be pros as well, and that NSNA is a charming film in its own way.
    There is a definite geeky-charm value to it I conjure.
    And welcome!
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Still, I think that from a geek point of view, some of the flaws happen to be pros as well, and that NSNA is a charming film in its own way.
    There is a definite geeky-charm value to it I conjure.
    And welcome!

    Thanks, man!
  • Posts: 2,491
    I saw that there wasn't a thread about this movie (I hope I'm not wrong) and I decided to make one.

    What did you think of this movie ? Because I personally don't hate this movie as much as other people do.

    How do you rate it among the other Bond movies ? Do you consider it to be a Bond movie ? Did you like to see Sean one more time back as Bond ?
  • Posts: 368
    Hi,
    good question. I must be honest - I hate that movie. I really like Sean but in that movie he was just too old to be a Bond!!!
    And that computer game thing with "Emilio Largo" was (imo) just ridiculous.
    In my opinion this was not a Bond movie, sorry.
  • Posts: 6,396
    It's a film made by a bunch of people who did not understand what attributes were needed to make a great Bond movie.

    Plus, Connery was only interested in the big fat cheque.

    The only highlights of the film are Klaus Maria Brandauer and Barbara Carrera. They deserved to be in a better film than this.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    We have like 3 NSNA threads.

    It's a bland movie at best with a terrible music score. (Though the tango music was good.) Other than that. Meh.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 97
    Ya know what? I re-watched this for the first time in about 15 years and I really don't think it was that bad an effort. I'd certainly rank it above some of the Eon entries, that's for sure.

    Yeah, it's weird having a totally different supporting cast and no Bond theme or gunbarrell etc and Connery's knocking on a little, but all in all, I think it was a solid effort...apart from the last part of the film, which kinda falls apart imho.

    The dialogue is great "You did say you'd catch me later." I loooove the scene with the fake cigar case bomb, that's a classic moment for me and Barbara is just...goodness, gracious me!

    The production was a troubled one and it certainly has it's faults but I really feel like it's unfairly treated by a lot of people.

    There's actually an 'Eon-ised' version floating around, where someone used Barry music and added a gunbarrell and it's amazing how much it changes the movie.

    We also recently review NSNA on our podcast, which you can check out here, if you wanna hear some more details about the production etc...

    http://jamesbondradio.com/never-say-never-again-review-podcast-014/

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