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I haven't been, I'm afraid. The Aston Martin reveal in Skyfall is perhaps my very least favorite scene in the film and deploying that incredible CR version of the James Bond over it just further exacerbates the fan-wankery and bad comedy of the scene, in my opinion.
"Los Muertos Vivos Estan" is good. There are also a couple nice Thunderballesque brass touches in "She's Mine" and (much more briefly) in "Westminster Bridge."
But by and large, Newman has not been using the James Bond theme to its best potential in action sequences or during moments that would really call for it. When we have heard the Bond theme in action sequences it has been subdued, slow-burning, just another part of the background, played overly melodically to the point of nearly disappearing completely.
And when we have gotten those big brassy statements of the Bond theme in Newman's work, they have, very unfortunately, been played for laughs. As in the aforementioned DB5 reveal scene—or even during Skyfall's climax when the Aston is destroyed. As much as I like "She's Mine" on its own, in the film the music says "Oh no they did-n't just mess with the Aston Martin, now Bond's pissed, time for some angry James Bond theme, y'all!"
How about playing the James Bond theme, loud and brassy and proud, when Bond does something truly worthy of the James Bond theme? That's how they did it in the old days, circa '62-'02 (even '06/'08).
I found it had degenerated into a serious cliche during the Brozza era (that bloody tie straightening underwater in TWINE comes to mind), and I don't ever want to go back to that again. Given how some (myself included) have reacted negatively to the manner in which the old tropes have returned in SP, I'm not sure if it will necessarily work well unless the theme is massaged and tweaked into something more original when used.
Some of examples of Barry's genius in tweaking the theme are during the ride to Osato's in the back of the car (Japanese flavour) in YOLT, or the way he gave it an apropos howling nature during the hovercraft sequence in DAF. Even Martin gave it a funk nature for LALD. That's the kind of creativity I want to see more of if they're going to use it more.
That was a throwback scene with a throwback car. It made sense to use a more classic, old school composition. They perhaps used Arnold's version (as opposed to Barry's) for cost reasons. Not sure. I thought the composition was perfect for the reveal of a 60's vehicle.
I loved the music when the car was blown up in SF btw.
Think you've answered your own question there mate. Trouble is the action in the last two films has been so mediocre it doesn't warrant the Bond theme at full blast. Newman could well be chomping at the bit to unleash it but then he looks at whats on screen and thinks 'Hardly TWSLM ski jump is it? I'm not even going to bother.'
All great examples of tweaking the Bond theme (and I actually particularly like the playful and chipper tweak Arnold gives the theme when Bond bypasses a bridge by submerging right under it in TWINE), but I'm referring in particular to the action scenes, the stunts, the BIG moments when you really want to let that brass rip.
My issue with the scene goes much deeper than the music choice. It was an out of place moment in the film, played purely for laughs, and totally out of character with Craig's Bond and out of tone with the film. It shouldn't have been there in the first place, and in my opinion playing that old school, ultra-cool composition against that jokey scene actually makes light of the music, almost turning the Bond theme itself into a joke the audience is supposed to wink at. (I understand others probably see it differently though.)
Ha! Point taken. (Waltz must have been in the same camp.) Still, there were clear opportunities. For instance, during the conclusion of Spectre, when Bond commandeers that boat out of the collapsing MI6 building and onto the Thames. Perfect opportunity to let rip the James Bond theme, right? Out of certain danger and into the clear and onto the chase, right? Instead we get more of the droning "Moors" theme. Why? I just don't get who made these choices and why.
Something else to take into account is that the Bond theme has the John Barry sound in its DNA, so Barry could afford to rely less on it in some films and still have the music sound Bondian. The Cable Car music in Moonraker comes to mind. Listen to the melody played by the muted trumpets (G-C-F-Ab-F'-E'). The last four notes are an obvious reference to the B section of the Bond theme (E-G-D#-D). A composer whose sound is not all that similar to Barry's, not all that Bondian in a traditional fashion, would probably do better in integrating the theme a bit more straightforwardly than someone with a more innately Bondian sound. Although I'm not his biggest fan, I must say, in my opinion, David Arnold has a Barryesque sound, which is why scores such as Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace sound Bondian, while not using the Bond theme too much. Thomas Newman lends a different touch to his scores, which is why I would've welcomed a more prominent, in-your-face use of the Bond theme. I was very happy when Bond managed to pull the helicopter up in the Spectre PTS, and the Bond theme played for a few seconds in all its brassy glory. Wish there was a bit more of that.
Sorry but I'm afraid that musical flourish combined with the underwater tie tweak is one of the nadirs of the series.
Absolutely. But when it comes to asking 'Who made these choices and why?' with SP the list is longer than War & Peace.
SP actually reminded me of Man of Steel. I'd have forgiven a lot if at the end of the film, when Superman is buried under rubble and looks dead, the classic John Williams theme had started up and Supes had flown out to kick ass. Similarly with SP a full blast burst of the Bond theme at the climax might have made a big difference.
It's all particularly curious given how much they let Mendes flog the fan wankery into the ground with stuff like the DB5. They are not afraid of straying into Brozza cliche territory with that particular dead horse but the Bond theme at full pelt seems totally verboten for some reason. Can it really be that they are too stingy to pay Monty his money for using it?
Very astute post Sir.
Any way. I agree there's no need for the theme to be used incessantly. I don't have an issue with it not being in every action cue.
Having said that would be nice if the composer felt free to use it if an occasion presents itself. And I don't necessarily mean some fancy new reworking (of which we've had plenty) but a more trad application.
It does feel like not using it or not using it overtly has become the new norm. To the extent that you really notice when it's not used at an obvious moment.
One thing I actually used to like about how Barry used the Bond theme was that it wasn't necessarily about a 'big' Bond moment. I can't remember which film now, perhaps FRWL, where Barry uses it as Bond checks his hotel room for bugs. The way he uses it the theme is more about character than action.
Agreed that both Mendes films hammer the old cliches - apart from the Bond theme for some reason.
Also agreed that now they seem terrified to use it at all and seem to have bought into the notion that you can only use it during a big Bond moment but they dont want to use it there because thats too obvious. However they havent got anyone with Barry's ability to slip in in elsewhere so consequently we hardly get it at all.
Lets be honest its use in the checking the bugs scene in FRWL is terrible. The theme at full pelt while Bond nonchalantly walks round his room sounds ludicrous. Calvindyson gets it pretty much nailed in his review.
But I take your point. I like how Barry uses it in TMWTGG when they find Scaramanga on the wrong side of the river. It's as if it to say 'Brace yourself folks this aint over yet. Here comes something special.' Of course that groundwork was destroyed by the slide whistle a few seconds later but nonetheless.
I also like when Bond is pushed out of the plane in MR and drives the Merc onto the rails in OP and Barry uses it. It's like a motif for 'well here's a situation so ludicrous that only Bond could end up there so lets see how he gets out of it'. That particular arrangement by Barry also has a 'business as usual' kind of vibe rather than the 'big stunt payoff' a la TSWLM, particularly in MR when there's a shot of Rog looking nonchalant as f**k as he glances down at the pilot with the parachute and then just gets on with it.
Also we havent had the original version from DN since OHMSS now. Why is that? Its still by far the best. There were Barry's various arrangements (but pretty much the same) used from the TMWTGG GB onwards until he retired, Martin, Hamlisch, Conti, Kamen and Serra all did their own and now we're stuck with the Arnold version from CR for all eternity it seems. I presume its for reasons as boring as denying Monty his money. If another composer does an arrangement then perhaps the fee is somewhat split between him and Monty and given they are paying the composer a flat fee for the score it means they only need to pay Monty his reduced share and make a small saving? I'm purely speculating of course but it wouldnt surprise me.
Are you referring to my preference for the 2012 film itself over the 2015 effort? If so, that has nothing to do with the tropes. It has to do with the visuals, the performances and the characterizations, all of which I prefer by some considerable margin in SF. Furthermore, what action there is (limited) is executed exceptionally well in SF. I truly enjoy the PTS sequence (it's visceral, non linear and exciting) and the Home Alone denouement. I can't say the same for any action sequence in SP (save for perhaps the Hinx fight, and even that was somewhat of a rehash of encounters I preferred in earlier films).
I agree with you in principle, but would like an imaginative reworking of it when it's used (we get the original version during the GB after all, as long that comes back permanently).
I'm not too keen on the use of the theme in FRWL tbh. That's a film where I thought it was a bit overbearing. I much prefer TB/YOLT/DAF, where Barry finesses & tweaks it rather than blares it out.
I know where you're coming from re: Djawadi and Jackman, particularly on their respective GoT & Marvel efforts. However, both have the capacity to deliver much more subdued orchestral work as well. Check out the track Valentine from Kingsman. That is as Barry'esque & polished as they come. I'm afraid that outside of a few tracks (mainly on QoS), I've always found Arnold to be heavy handed, and that is one of the primary reasons I don't want him back on Bond. I hear a world of difference between his work and Barry's. I'd liken it to my feelings on Brosnan vs. Moore as Bond. One is the original and the other is a clumsy imitator. I'd much rather hear/see a new approach (a'la Craig) than a rehash.
This was what I was responding to in terms of your apparent view that SF and SP are chalk and cheese when it comes to rehashing the old cliches. It was clear to me within half an hour that SF was off the meter in terms of going back to the stale tropes approach to Bond film making. It was no surprise to me that SP too the route it did.
Re the music, I thought you'd been criticising the score for SP, but perhaps I just misinterpreted what you'd written.
SF may have plagiarized elements of TWINE, but at least from where I sat, it seemed quite fresh in 2012, and still does. We didn't get a traditional Bond girl (rather, we got a Bond 'dame'), no GB, limited Bond theme (which some have been banging on about on this thread), and no 'lair' ending (rather, it's at Bond's ancestral home). The fact that the film has limited jet setting as well (most of it takes place in London) was a nice change. Ultimately though, the performances and characterizations are great and that is what resonated with me.
What also impressed me about that film (as an anniversary entry) is that nearly every scene is a reimagination of a previous one in a prior film. It's done so well that it's not directly obvious (well, perhaps it is to some) unlike in DAD (the prior anniversary effort). I have to hand it to Mendes - he did a great job with that. Even the bulldozer sequence in the PTS is a riff with a twist on the one in CR, as an example.
I certainly much prefer the SF score to SP's, because the latter borrows heavily from the former. Although, as I mentioned (perhaps on another thread), that likely was intentional, so that EoN could emotionally link the two stories (including the stupid retro-Silva Spectre angle). I really don't mind the SP score, unlike others. Newman is quite good with the slow stuff and the ambient music. It's in the action scoring that he fails, but then again, I've always felt that Arnold wasn't great there either.
Purvis and Wade obviously recycle heavily from their dire TWINE plot, but SF 'borrows' even more heavily from TMWTGG.
Any way, rehashing old plots is not the worst crime. Bond has often done that. SF's main crime for me is that I find it dull and messy.
SF is also riddled with stale cheese from start to finish. The lacklustre PTS, with the Brosnanesque cuff-popping, M not trusting Bond (for the zillionth time), CGI monsters, lame jokes from onlookers on the tube (this is where the bad Roger Moore tribute stuff set in), awful use of the DB5 (as if Mendes wasn't aware it had appeared in practically every movie for the past 20 years), and poorly directed, lacklustre action from start to finish. Even Mendes doesn't rate the SF PTS and its relentless, strangely tensionless mediocrity. Any way, I could go on and on but the hallmarks of Mendes Bond are there right from the start. SP was exactly what I expected it to be, which is probably why I enjoyed it more than a lot on here appear to have done. I went in with low expectations, which Mendes met.
That may be the key point. My expectations were quite high for 3 years, but I'll admit they were deflated terribly by Craig's (misinterpreted) wrist cutter comments and Smith's tripe. Even then the film failed to meet my lowly expectations.
Irrespective, he's done, and hopefully Newman and Arnold are as well (as far as I'm concerned). I really want a new take on the whole thing for B25.
I wouldn't.
You would take two hours of this:
Over Serra's modern sound?
Why don't we make things easy and just helicopter David Arnold in for the job?
A third helping of Newman would indeed be a whole lot of difficult on my ears. ;)
That was a nice track. Haven't seen the film or heard the soundtrack, but I like this one.
Since SP's release, I have made it no secret nor a matter of shame that I love this film and in fact rank it as Craig's second best right behind the perfect CR. SP isn't faultless and when carefully dissected reveals a few weak spots which are hard to ignore in any detailed assessment. But overall I find it to be an almost dreamy adventure, a surreal sort of experience like a nightmare of Bond rather than a factual part of the loose CR-QOS-SF canon, despite the unification effort imposed on the gallery of Craig's Bond villains. And I cannot help but enjoying SP tremendously, looking past the flaws with considerable ease. The film has a powerful mood, my kind of thing, which I especially enjoy in the sweaty and drunk atmosphere of "l'Américain" and in the beautiful and slightly futuristic lair Blofeld occupies in the middle of the desert. This film looks very good and is well shot. I have a lot of love for the character of Madeline Swann too. Léa Seydoux looks great and acts her role well. She may in fact be my favourite Bond girl of the Craig era, ranking slightly above Vesper; and yes I know that's blasphemous.
Another element of this film I cannot but praise, is Thomas Newman's score. Unlike what its haters claim, it is not a carbon copy of his SF score. A minor few cues are brought back, yes, but this score is fuller, richer and in my opinion a genuinely fascinating achievement. Newman channels John Barry in many of the romantic scenes, first with Sciarra's widow, then with Madeline on the train. The strings, harps and flutes ooze sex and warmth in a composition which I can only describe as truly beautiful. There are moments of effective chills too, horror almost, for example when Blofeld first addresses Bond during the Spectre meeting. In the action scenes, Newman delivers pulse, rhythm and depth, toying with the Bond Theme every now and then, in a fashion I find tremendously effective. Another stand-out moment for me would be the instrumental rendition of the theme song while Bond and Madeline are making love on the train, first full of orchestral splendour, then quieted down and overtaken by a soft piano at sunrise. In between the scenes described above, Newman mixes electronics with ethnic sounds, but always adequately adjusted to the setting. The music enhances the pressure and tension and adds to the drama in the film. I furthermore really love the moments when Newman uses those guitar riffs to create a ticking clock sort of tension.
Sam Smith's theme song was pissed on by many, but I think it's a beautiful composition, expertly synced with Kleinman's impressive main titles which, by the way, I love to look at, what with the unsettling octopus effects and all. I have but a minor complaint, and that would be Smith's feminine singing. Don't write yourself a song you can't handle...
I really hope people can give this score an honest reconsideration sometime and appreciate it for what it is. Sadly, John Barry isn't going to return and though I think the world of Arnold's CR and QOS scores, I don't think Newman has to hide in shame. SP greatly benefits from the moody, sometimes dreamy, often exciting and tension building score Newman delivers. I'm in fact on the verge of wanting him back for the next Bond though I sincerely doubt he would return in the absence of Mendes. Either way, Newman brings a different style to the game but then the power of the Bond films is their capacity for changing style now and then and staying fresh and relevant. The SP score, which I think is far better than the similarly misunderstood SF score, blends in nicely with the film Mendes and Craig set out to make.
Personally, I think SP is a far better Bond film than SF, though the rest of world clearly disagrees. So be it, but I'm not going to let the majority vote damage my enjoyment when watching this film. And turning the volume up to get the full Newman experience, I'm never not having a great time with this film. I wish I knew more about music, technically, so that I could more ably describe how I felt about the SP score. But the above comes from the heart; it's the love a fan has for something he will sporadically defend against the harsh criticism it seems destined to endure. Overtime I believe Newman's scores will retrieve some fan love, like how Goldenthal's scores for Schumacher's Batman films have been redeemed over the years, much more in fact than the films they were used in.
I hate to disappoint people but I love SP and the score of SP, and I shan't apologise for that. This isn't me trying to be difficult or swimming upstream for the sake of it. I simply recall sitting in the theatre in 2015, feeling satisfied in ways I hadn't felt since CR. And the music plays a big part in that.