It Seems There Are More QoS Appreciators Than Thought Before

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  • Bond's facial expression when Mathis died tells a lot as he is reminded to forgive Vesper and himself. This particular scene was noted by a production assistant to have had very few people present late at midngbt on set to help facilitate the somber tone with minimal need to make any last minute touches to the script that was to be avoided when possible although it was inevitably done.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    talos7 wrote: »
    I'm one of the three people who actually likes AWTD. in no way is it a perfect song but I think it reflects where Bond is following the events of CR , particularly the death of Vesper. Musically I find it very Bondian in an unconventional way; lyrically it's very strong. I don't think the t it worked as a duet, Keyes of capable of better. Where it really loses me is when the do a jazzy breakdown as she moans and yelps.

    Add me as a fourth. LOL

    And I think it is the one Bond song that works really well because of the title sequence.
  • TripAces wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I'm one of the three people who actually likes AWTD. in no way is it a perfect song but I think it reflects where Bond is following the events of CR , particularly the death of Vesper. Musically I find it very Bondian in an unconventional way; lyrically it's very strong. I don't think the t it worked as a duet, Keyes of capable of better. Where it really loses me is when the do a jazzy breakdown as she moans and yelps.

    Add me as a fourth. LOL

    And I think it is the one Bond song that works really well because of the title sequence.

    I'd be the fifth. I really like this song, both against the film's opening titles and on its own. It's a nice, harder-edged contrast to the three ballads that would follow and does a good job of capturing the young, more brutal, and perhaps more reckless side of Bond we see in the CR and QOS storyline. Who are the other two, by the way?
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m not a fan of the idea. The film should stand as released. Even with all of my problems, particularly the ending, with NTTD, I would never want it changed or reedited, at this point. It exists, that’s the film.

    The only time I approve of such things is when a piece of work was cut against the will of a Director. And I’m not talking about franchise pictures because that’s part of the game, I’m talking about an auteur, like Welles or Stroheim, who both were subject to such treatment. BLADE RUNNER is a more recent example. The STAR WARS films illustrate the futility of the practice; down the rabbit hole.

    The theatrical Aliens and The Abyss were both edited by Cameron, yet his extended cuts are superior...

    Before the extended cut of Aliens plays, Cameron mentions something along the lines of how "conventional wisdom at the time said to cut your movie shorter rather than longer" and so he did but that the extended cut is his preferred version of the film. I could have done without seeing Hadley's Hope before the marines arrive for the increased suspense value, but by and large the scenes that were removed really do improve the experience.

    There is of course the opposite end of the spectrum as @Birdleson mentions where you're haphazardly CGI-ing tauntauns into the background of every scene, and I'd say the majority of extended versions released on Blu-ray only make a film a longer and slightly less interesting experience and serve to demonstrate just why particular scenes were cut in the first place. But yes, Aliens and The Abyss demonstrate the value of giving a film's initial edit a re-think during a later era.

    I really doubt a Bond film will ever receive an extended version or a director's cut though. When given the option of digitally removing the crew that's plainly visible in the dressing room mirror during the fight in TMWTGG, the producers declined as they wished to preserve the legacy of the series as it was made, blemishes and all. They prefer moving forward rather than looking back.
  • Posts: 2,161
    Hated ALIENS. In fact, I’ve never liked a Cameron film.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Hated ALIENS. In fact, I’ve never liked a Cameron film.

    I nearly choked on a cashew nut I was eating when I read that!

    SERIOUSLY?!!! 😮
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    Going to watch Quantum of Solace tonight.

    As you might expect from my username, I'm very excited to watch the 22nd Bond film at 22:22, on 02 22 2022.
  • Going to watch Quantum of Solace tonight.

    As you might expect from my username, I'm very excited to watch the 22nd Bond film at 22:22, on 02 22 2022.

    Wear a tutu while you watch and you will go down in legend.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    Going to watch Quantum of Solace tonight.

    As you might expect from my username, I'm very excited to watch the 22nd Bond film at 22:22, on 02 22 2022.

    Wear a tutu while you watch and you will go down in legend.

    Not to go without mention: on Twosday.

    61qyTwE6hVL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Going to watch Quantum of Solace tonight.

    As you might expect from my username, I'm very excited to watch the 22nd Bond film at 22:22, on 02 22 2022.

    You should wait until Febtember. And two hundred years!
  • Going to watch Quantum of Solace tonight.

    As you might expect from my username, I'm very excited to watch the 22nd Bond film at 22:22, on 02 22 2022.

    Nice!

    Look deep into the subtleties and please share any new things you pick up for yourself from the film.
  • Posts: 1,630
    This is too much...
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    I'm thinking Febtember is not the UK variant for Febtober. Two unlikely.

    BVglhriCIAEnfs0.jpg
  • Do you all remember when watching the trailer for SF for the first time? It made it seem like Bond had shot someone in an apartment room whom he wasn't supposed to and was hence being "interrogated" by the shrink?

    The music was very similar to a song that came out before SF was made called "Water Shape" by Monocular. If you don't believe me, listen to it towards the end before the chorus picks up one last verse.

    Then there's SP...Conjure One had made a song called Still Holding On. From the very beginning of that song you can hear the kind of Daniel Craig with Sam Mendes collaboration brewing from a gunshot that wasn't supposed to happen a-la SF on the train Bloody Shot or the title sequence of SP.

    My point being...since QoS, we haven't had as much originality with detailed scoring...although the use of David Arnold's music and Louis Armstrong's are always welcome when played in a scene made with care as they were in NTTD.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,247
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.
  • GadgetMan wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.

    The music really made the intricate details of emotion for CR and QoS...Newman and Zimmer are similar in that they use simplistic beats with limited musical instruments.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Hated ALIENS. In fact, I’ve never liked a Cameron film.

    I nearly choked on a cashew nut I was eating when I read that!

    SERIOUSLY?!!! 😮

    Same here.It’s my most rewatched film of all time.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.

    The music really made the intricate details of emotion for CR and QoS...Newman and Zimmer are similar in that they use simplistic beats with limited musical instruments.

    Yeah. Arnold's music really gives CR & QoS, serious rewatch value.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.

    The music really made the intricate details of emotion for CR and QoS...Newman and Zimmer are similar in that they use simplistic beats with limited musical instruments.

    Yeah. Arnold's music really gives CR & QoS, serious rewatch value.

    The man knows the Bond sound.....👍
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.

    The music really made the intricate details of emotion for CR and QoS...Newman and Zimmer are similar in that they use simplistic beats with limited musical instruments.

    Yeah. Arnold's music really gives CR & QoS, serious rewatch value.

    The man knows the Bond sound.....👍

    Every penny of it! :)>-
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    So true. Some of Arnold's music in CR had a genuinely emotional punch that was just perfect for it. Vesper and City of Lovers couldn't have been bettered.
  • GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I remember thinking at the time that it was harsh on Arnold to be dropped after producing his best scores in CR and QOS. I know Mendes wanted his own guy, but Arnold had just done his best work, so...bit rough on him. I did (and still do) like Newman's work on SF and SP, especially the spare, noir-ish stuff and the gentler, more reflective pieces, but Arnold was on a real roll at the time and I've often wondered what he'd've written for those films. Another one of those Bondian 'what ifs'.

    Yeah. This might sound stupid, because it's only music. Although, I like some tracks from Newman's SP score and feel SF is his best Bond score...and I love the entire Zimmer score, but maybe if Arnold had scored all five of Craig's films, it might have helped the films feel like CR & QoS. I can only imagine what Arnold would have done with Skyfall, knowing it's Bond 50th anniversary...with him being a huge Bond fan as well.

    The music really made the intricate details of emotion for CR and QoS...Newman and Zimmer are similar in that they use simplistic beats with limited musical instruments.

    Yeah. Arnold's music really gives CR & QoS, serious rewatch value.

    The man knows the Bond sound.....👍

    Every penny of it! :)>-

    Think about it:

    He scored QoS after the principal photography finished. He knew about the anxious mood on the set. You can hear the emphasis of how lonely it was for both the protagonist and the actor/crew/set while they were filming Mathis' death scene in Bond's arms.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    To me, the scores for both SF and especially SP are waaay not on par with CR and QoS. NTTD was a step back into the right direction for me. But besides fabulous title theme and the Shanghai Track everything else on the SF and SP soundtrack is really "meh" in my opinion. QoS was simply Arnold's best score and why they did not invite im back for NTTD is puzzling to me - even I thing Zimmer created a good score.
  • SeanCraig wrote: »
    To me, the scores for both SF and especially SP are waaay not on par with CR and QoS. NTTD was a step back into the right direction for me. But besides fabulous title theme and the Shanghai Track everything else on the SF and SP soundtrack is really "meh" in my opinion. QoS was simply Arnold's best score and why they did not invite im back for NTTD is puzzling to me - even I thing Zimmer created a good score.

    His absence is truly felt.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    To me, the scores for both SF and especially SP are waaay not on par with CR and QoS. NTTD was a step back into the right direction for me. But besides fabulous title theme and the Shanghai Track everything else on the SF and SP soundtrack is really "meh" in my opinion. QoS was simply Arnold's best score and why they did not invite im back for NTTD is puzzling to me - even I thing Zimmer created a good score.

    His absence is truly felt.

    Deeply!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,547
    I may be the only person in the world who's not a huge fan of the CR or QOS scores. For that matter, I'm not a huge huge fan of any of the scores in the Craig era, but I have to admit to being a slightly bigger fan of the later Craig films scores. They all have diamonds in the rough; Spectre has Los Muertos Vivos Estan, Eternal City, and Secret Room, Skyfall has Modigliani and the aforementioned Shanghai Drive / Adrenaline.
    CR and QOS kind of feel "soapy" to me, for lack of a better word. Days Of Our Lives music. There is good Bond sound peppered in though. Diamonds in the rough.
  • edited February 2022 Posts: 1,282
    What killed the CR and QoS style of storytelling versus the latter 3 films?
    Was it the lack of Bourne movies being made?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Pretty good video championing Craig's second best Bond film...

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    It was the critical beatdown dished out to QOS by journalists. Dunno what the world media are like but knowing what British journalists are like, I suspect that would've happened no matter what film had followed CR. Craig's first film was universally praised, so the second one had to get a kicking no matter what. It's the way these people work. Unfortunately, EON seemed to take it as valid criticism of QOS itself and it scared them back down the more familiar path of lighter and dafter elements and weak gags. Mendes didn't seem to grasp what was great about CR and QOS, but did seem to have a Bond wishlist that he wanted to tick off even if it wasn't appropriate for CraigBond. 'Go on then, eject me,' indeed. Pffft.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Venutius wrote: »
    It was the critical beatdown dished out to QOS by journalists. Dunno what the world media are like but knowing what British journalists are like, I suspect that would've happened no matter what film had followed CR. Craig's first film was universally praised, so the second one had to get a kicking no matter what. It's the way these people work. Unfortunately, EON seemed to take it as valid criticism of QOS itself and it scared them back down the more familiar path of lighter and dafter elements and weak gags. Mendes didn't seem to grasp what was great about CR and QOS, but did seem to have a Bond wishlist that he wanted to tick off even if it wasn't appropriate for CraigBond. 'Go on then, eject me,' indeed. Pffft.

    Pretty much spot on 👍
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