Skyfall Considered the Most Overated film of all.

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  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.


    Movie culture seems to be divided into two categories these days:

    Before Star Wars (a time that most can't comprehend) and after Star Wars.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.

    Also many of them are not aware that some of the best cinema was made in another language than English.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.

    Also many of them are not aware that some of the best cinema was made in another language than English.

    "What? Subtitles? You mean I have to READ while I watch?!"
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,120
    Haha @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, usually these are the people that come up with a "100 BEST FILMS OF ALL TIME" list consisting solely of films in English. Laughable but not uncommon.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Haha @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, usually these are the people that come up with a "100 BEST FILMS OF ALL TIME" list consisting solely of films in English. Laughable but not uncommon.

    Westerners do sometimes have a habit of thinking the world revolves around them.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Yeah but these films are, like, overrated.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Yeah but these films are, like, overrated.

    Totally. But only American and British films, because let's be honest: none of the others actually matter and therefore aren't worth rating period. Chinese movies are all action movies, all French people do is film people eating under the Eiffel Tower, Italians are too busy cooking to care and Japanese films are also only action...and there's also anime, but cartoons are for kids.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.

    Also many of them are not aware that some of the best cinema was made in another language than English.

    I'm not so sure about this. I agree films from the 1930's plus contain many classics. But the whole reason other countries watch British and American cinema is that it is superior.....in general.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Does any one in the community dislike it? For me when I watched it the most recent time I thought it was incredible

    SF or TLD
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote: »
    Does any one in the community dislike it? For me when I watched it the most recent time I thought it was incredible

    SF or TLD

    @Getafix, he means TLD.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I don't fully dislike TLD but for me personally it's flaws make it hard for me to enjoy it these days.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't fully dislike TLD but for me personally it's flaws make it hard for me to enjoy it these days.
    What are its drawbacks from your perspective, @Murdock?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, for me the biggest drawbacks that hamper it mostly stem from it's villains. Koskov and Whitaker are so lame. They are the weakest villains in the series. They are in no way intimidating or have any sort of menace to them. Their ultimate goal to steal diamonds to fund arms smuggling or something is also poor and uninteresting.

    The more humorous aspects of the film fall flat for me. For a movie that's supposedly harder edged, The humor from Moore's era still lingers and it hurts the movie and Dalton's performance at time. Which brings me to him. I don't really care for Tim's performance in the movie. It's too stiff and overdone. It feels staged and not natural. I put that down to nerves and not enough good direction from Glen. Dalton really needed a Terrance Young type of director to shape him into the role ready to go.

    Lastly the final half in Afghanistan was boring to me. It's hard to sit through after a while. Other than that there are lots of good things to like about it but sadly it sits on the top of the bottom 5.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Thats 4 places higher than i have it @Murdock .
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,120
    suavejmf wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.

    Also many of them are not aware that some of the best cinema was made in another language than English.

    I'm not so sure about this. I agree films from the 1930's plus contain many classics. But the whole reason other countries watch British and American cinema is that it is superior.....in general.

    I disagree, the reason why so many people watch American films is that they have bigger budgets for easy-to-digest popcorn movies and there is a big audience for that kind of film.

    Filmmaking doesn't end there though. In terms of the more slower-paced, subtle, thoughtful and groundbreaking arthouse films the works of Michelangelo Antonioni, Federico Fellini, Luchino Visconti, Vittorio De Sica, Jean-Pierre Melville, Jean-Luc Godard, Jean Renoir, Ingmar Bergman, Wim Wenders, Werner Herzog, Akira Kurosawa, Andrei Tarkovsky, etc. can definitely be considered among the best works of cinema ever.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    E.g. Do Russians watch American films. Yes. Do Americans watch Russian films. No. Because the quality of budget (yes) but also acting talent and production talent is (generally) lower.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, for me the biggest drawbacks that hamper it mostly stem from it's villains. Koskov and Whitaker are so lame. They are the weakest villains in the series. They are in no way intimidating or have any sort of menace to them. Their ultimate goal to steal diamonds to fund arms smuggling or something is also poor and uninteresting.

    The more humorous aspects of the film fall flat for me. For a movie that's supposedly harder edged, The humor from Moore's era still lingers and it hurts the movie and Dalton's performance at time. Which brings me to him. I don't really care for Tim's performance in the movie. It's too stiff and overdone. It feels staged and not natural. I put that down to nerves and not enough good direction from Glen. Dalton really needed a Terrance Young type of director to shape him into the role ready to go.

    Lastly the final half in Afghanistan was boring to me. It's hard to sit through after a while. Other than that there are lots of good things to like about it but sadly it sits on the top of the bottom 5.
    Murdock wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, for me the biggest drawbacks that hamper it mostly stem from it's villains. Koskov and Whitaker are so lame. They are the weakest villains in the series. They are in no way intimidating or have any sort of menace to them. Their ultimate goal to steal diamonds to fund arms smuggling or something is also poor and uninteresting.

    The more humorous aspects of the film fall flat for me. For a movie that's supposedly harder edged, The humor from Moore's era still lingers and it hurts the movie and Dalton's performance at time. Which brings me to him. I don't really care for Tim's performance in the movie. It's too stiff and overdone. It feels staged and not natural. I put that down to nerves and not enough good direction from Glen. Dalton really needed a Terrance Young type of director to shape him into the role ready to go.

    Lastly the final half in Afghanistan was boring to me. It's hard to sit through after a while. Other than that there are lots of good things to like about it but sadly it sits on the top of the bottom 5.

    I see.

    I actually find Koskov and Whitaker, as well as their more grounded and real to history plan (in the time of the Soviet invasion), very refreshing. After the Moore era the films were in dire need of a bit of cold, hard reality, and it feels like a modern spy film on the whole.

    I love Dalton's performance overall, but I agree that the holdover elements of the Moore era were forced on him and at times, hurt his impact. The one-liners shouldn't have been in there, and they rear their head at times in LTK too, a film where Bond shouldn't have ever been willing to spit one of them out while tailing the man who killed his friend and dismembered the other. The tone can at times feel confused because of that, but that's a failure of the script to support Dalton, and not wholly on him. It's clear what his strengths were, and that's all his era should've been focused on.

    I still really enjoy TLD though, and for the great character building of Bond in the beginning, the fantastic Pushkin, Saunder's death, Kara and the fantastic airstrip sequence in Afghanistan, it is higher on my list of Bond films.

    I think LTK is better overall in many notable ways, but both films cement Dalton as my #3 favorite Bond.
  • Posts: 19,339
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
    Christ, don't even bring that up.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    suavejmf wrote: »
    E.g. Do Russians watch American films. Yes. Do Americans watch Russian films. No. Because the quality of budget (yes) but also acting talent and production talent is (generally) lower.
    Which is of course complete bullshit, especially the part with the acting and production talent, unless you define "talent" as being able to generate the optimum in box office income in the States. Americans don't watch Russian films only because they don't bother dealing with a foreign language in whatever way (dubbing, subtitles...).

    Disclaimer: I don't normally watch Russian movies either, but just because the supply isn't really there. But though I don't understand Russian, I wouldn't be scared off. I've watched Italian movies with Italian subtitles, rather than a German-dubbed version...and I don't even speak Italian. I just hate dubbing.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    barryt007 wrote: »
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
    Christ, don't even bring that up.

    At least the editor remembered that it's not a roger Moore film anymore
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    barryt007 wrote: »
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
    If only they took out the "cello case sled" element. That's the part of TLD I hate the most.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Murdock wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
    If only they took out the "cello case sled" element. That's the part of TLD I hate the most.

    Well apart from Milovy herself,that doesnt help it...its just a boring film at the end of the day ,with some sporadic good moments.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    At least they took out the 'flying carpet' element.
    If only they took out the "cello case sled" element. That's the part of TLD I hate the most.

    I don't mind the idea, but the gag at the end ("nothing to declare") is horrid.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited March 2017 Posts: 4,043
    TLD is a classic no doubt but LTK is a jarring mess of a film, it has some great moments but it can't stay with it's convictions and be hard revenge thriller, the moments with Q in the field, especially those ludicrous gadgets he has in that case push right back to the daftest Moore adventures it was trying to be the antidote to.

    I loved LTK when it came out and saw it twice in one day but over the years despite it having some great sequences it also has some pretty awful moments.

    I'm afraid Dalton never got the entry that truly could have made his Bond endure outside the fan base.

    For that reason alone I prefer Craig's era, well up to SPECTRE that is. Craig just looks more confident from the get go, there is no feeling of he's out of his depth in scenes or not suited, can't say that for Dalton especially in LTK.

    I'll give Tim the pass with some of scenes in TLD like the humour as he was working with a film that had been scripted for Rog and then was re-written for him not tailored.

    Although when he did get that film they still couldn't drop the cliches and the reason they included them just makes all his attempts to hark back to Fleming look glaringly out of place amongst some of the elements in LTK.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Murdock wrote: »
    [If only they took out the "cello case sled" element. That's the part of TLD I hate the most.

    I agree, it is really out of place and feels like a holdover from the Moore era.

  • Posts: 11,425
    I don't mind the comedy in TLD. I do agree tho that the Afghan section drags a little.

    For me though the whole of SF is a bore.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Compared to TLD ,SF is as good as FRWL...TLD is one big sleepfest.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    E.g. Do Russians watch American films. Yes. Do Americans watch Russian films. No. Because the quality of budget (yes) but also acting talent and production talent is (generally) lower.
    Which is of course complete bullshit, especially the part with the acting and production talent, unless you define "talent" as being able to generate the optimum in box office income in the States. Americans don't watch Russian films only because they don't bother dealing with a foreign language in whatever way (dubbing, subtitles...).

    Disclaimer: I don't normally watch Russian movies either, but just because the supply isn't really there. But though I don't understand Russian, I wouldn't be scared off. I've watched Italian movies with Italian subtitles, rather than a German-dubbed version...and I don't even speak Italian. I just hate dubbing.

    Exactly, there is also the question of advertising as well. I don't see a big advertising campaign for La grande bellezza, one of the best films in recent years, across Time Square. Transformers Part 10 would have advertising campaigns all over Italy (on the roads, in the cities, tv spots, radio spots and what not).

    A Flemish proverb says: unknown is unloved.
  • Posts: 7,419
    As I stated, TLD was adapted for Dalton. Originally written for Moore, there were still a few elements left over, which should have been taken out. The cello case scene is ok to me, at least they didnt turn Bond into a computer character,ie DAD, they did the scenefor real. Apparently it was John Glens idea, and Wilson and Cubby Broccoli weren't fully convinced.
    The Afghanistan scenes are not that bad, its TLD slow section, ALL Bond movies have a slow section. It doesn't hurt the movie, itsstill a classic Bond film, with a classic Bond! Cant understand how you could call Dalton stiff. He's utterly compelling and oozes screen presence. Compared to Brossa, who has the patent on stiff and wooden!
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