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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,233
    foo_yuk wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But surely you can see how it dampens our enthusiasm for going into the theater and seeing a new James Bond film. I mean we’re sitting there knowing it is leading to his death. There’s nothing pleasant about it from this perspective. How are we supposed to enjoy everything in between? I don’t need some grand arc to define the Craig Era. I just wanted a fun Bond film. I’m so disappointed and, rational or not, angry.

    Honest question, does knowing Tracy is killed immediately after their wedding dampen your enjoyment of the fun in OHMSS? Bond fails to protect the woman he loves, and Blofeld gets the last laugh on him. It ends on a somber note of defeat :)

    I hope you all give the film a chance. It sounds like 90% of a classic Bond romp, and you can enjoy that and hate the ending. I’m that way with a lot of the films. I Really like FYEO, but HATE its PTS that makes a giant cheesy joke out of Bond’s greatest nemesis. So I usually grab snacks from the fridge during that scene.

    This would make sense why Babs and MGW have been name dropping OHMSS a lot in the promoting of NTTD, as well as the fact the soundtrack contains cues. Seems they really want to give an emotionally SATISFYING end. They’re not laughing at us and saying “haha we killed your hero!”
  • Quantum_of_TomorrowQuantum_of_Tomorrow
    Posts: 508
    km16 wrote: »
    tqb wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m seriously thinking of not going.

    Would be silly to skip

    Unfortunately I am considering the same, and I even pre-ordered tickets. Might cancel those. If I'm going to hate it as much as I think I'm going to hate it, I'd be more mad at the fact I wasted a trip out and risked being exposed to covid over something I ended up absolutely hating. I'm in the south where masks are politicized to an extreme and rare to see in public spaces.

    If I'm going to hate it, I'd rather hate it for a cheaper price in the safety of my living room and wait till digital.

    I'm doing the same.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,233
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But surely you can see how it dampens our enthusiasm for going into the theater and seeing a new James Bond film. I mean we’re sitting there knowing it is leading to his death. There’s nothing pleasant about it from this perspective. How are we supposed to enjoy everything in between? I don’t need some grand arc to define the Craig Era. I just wanted a fun Bond film. I’m so disappointed and, rational or not, angry.

    A film can be fun and still pack an emotional punch at the end. I got that with SKYFALL. I got that with STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN (though they’d later undo Spock’s death anyway). Maybe I’m not so down on the idea of a character dying because I’m so used to that at this point, with the most recent example being Tony Stark in the Marvel films. People were still able to have a fun time at the movie AND get an emotionally satisfying heroic death at the end. They’re not mutually exclusive concepts.

    I’m talking specifically Bond and my relationship to the character. I’m not talking about film in general, or characters in general, I do not want to see Bond die in a film. If you do fine, but I sure as hell don’t. I don’t begrudge others for wanting to see it, I don’t know why anybody would care if I don’t.

    Because you’re a fellow fan and I think it’s a bummer that this is too much for you. That’s why I care. It sucks to see many of you give up sight unseen.

    And no, I don’t want to see Bond get killed, but I’m also not against it.

    I guess that’s all I can say. If you made up your mind, you’ve made up your mind.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Well, I haven’t seen anyone, even those who liked the film, say that they’re glad he dies.

    I think this is a really cheap and borderline nonsensical argument to make. I wasn't "glad" to see Spock or Tony Stark die either, quite the opposite, but I think those respective films are better for committing to it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2021 Posts: 8,233
    Is WRATH OF KHAN and ENDGAME better for killing said characters? I dunno, it WORKS for those films, and I understand there were A LOT of Trekkies that absolutely loathed Spock’s death and saw no point in it. Even Roddenberry was pissed off about it.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Anyway, for what’s worth, we don’t see Bond “dead” like Logan or Stark. We don’t see his dead body laying on the ground, eyes wide open. They blow up the base and Bond is in it.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2021 Posts: 8,233
    Birdleson wrote: »
    On a sidenote for people who keep bringing up Spock, it was apparent they were bringing him back at the end of that very movie. I mean I saw it in the theaters, and everybody knew he was coming back.

    Plus, Spock was not the sole hero of the franchise. They didn’t kill off the entire crew of the enterprise.

    At the time it wasn’t certain. They were pretty serious about killing Spock. Bringing him back to life was a producer’s idea after the fact, and Nimoy was so engaged with making TWOK that he accepted the offer to revive his character so long as he was director.
  • ZarozzorZarozzor
    Posts: 207
    Birdleson wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Anyway, for what’s worth, we don’t see Bond “dead” like Logan or Stark. We don’t see his dead body laying on the ground, eyes wide open. They blow up the base and Bond is in it.

    No body!??
    Read at your own risk. From a user on Reddit
    Bond opens the silos and asks Q to connect him with Madeleine. He tells her that he loves her and that she now has all the time in the world with her daughter. She tells him that the girl has his eyes. He says, "I know." Then the missiles arrive on the island and Bond is engulfed in a fireball. He is definitely dead. It's not left open, he's as dead as dead can be. In M's office, all the MI6 staff raise their glasses to Bond, while Madeleine and her daughter take the car to Matera, where she says to the little girl, "I want to tell you about a man. His name was Bond. James Bond." The credits roll, accompanied by "We have all the time in the world" by Louis Armstrong.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Birdleson wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Anyway, for what’s worth, we don’t see Bond “dead” like Logan or Stark. We don’t see his dead body laying on the ground, eyes wide open. They blow up the base and Bond is in it.

    No body!?? Wait! Is there even a hint he could have survived? I know I’m grasping at straws, but I’d love to change my mood around.

    From what I read it’s implied he’s really, really, dead, but we don’t see his dead body á la Logan or Endgame or BvS. They blow up Safin’s base and he’s in it. There are no hints about a potential survival, but at the same time he dies kinda offscreen…
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,233
    Do Craig and Seydoux have better chemistry in this film than in SP?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I bet they have.
  • sworddevil1sworddevil1 USA
    Posts: 526
    I watched Star Trek: Generations, and the death of Kirk still bothers me. I had a ton of emotional investment in the character (always will), and the same level or more with Daniel Craig’s Bond. I learned my lesson with Generations (I didn’t know the outcome, but I sure felt it). To this day, I cannot watch that movie. It seems to me that during the Craig era, the creative forces don’t know whether to turn left or right. I felt like Spectre drifted into comedic land at times too much, but I would take it 100 to 1 over killing James Bond. This could do permanent damage to the franchise. Just my opinion. And it seems like a lot of others agree. But, I do hope that people enjoy it, if that’s your cup of tea.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,233
    Just realized, this is possibly a reason Boyle left. I recall it having to do with Bond’s ultimate fate.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    I really want to know Boyle's pitch now.
  • ZarozzorZarozzor
    Posts: 207
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Just realized, this is possibly a reason Boyle left. I recall it having to do with Bond’s ultimate fate.
    I do remember reading that. Didn’t it say he left because they wanted to him to kill Bond and he wouldn’t do it?
  • sworddevil1sworddevil1 USA
    Posts: 526
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Just realized, this is possibly a reason Boyle left. I recall it having to do with Bond’s ultimate fate.
    I was thinking the same thing.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Also worth mentioning that when Bond sacrifices himself he’s infected with Safin’s nanobots. He would’ve killed both Swann and his daughter with a single touch, just like he unexpectedly does with Blofeld.
  • sworddevil1sworddevil1 USA
    Posts: 526
    Movie definitely not for me. Sounds like it could cause clinical depression. No thank you. The more I read, the less I want to know. Shew. Awful.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    sworddevil1 wrote: »
    Movie definitely not for me. Sounds like it could cause clinical depression. No thank you. The more I read, the less I want to know. Shew. Awful.

    Or perhaps strong emotions.

    I really can’t understand some of you guys.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    I will say that the scene in the prison
    is unlike anything we've ever seen in a Bond film. I mean that entire stretch is like the kid with the bomb in Sabotage, minus the fact that Fukunaga never lies to the audience the way Hitchcock did in that film. I was on edge from the moment Bond reached out to shake Madeline's hand, because I knew at that point it was inevitable that he would touch her and then Blofeld. But the way they built up to it was impeccable, and then we get an aborted moment from the YOLT novel that doesn't matter because Blofeld is still dead at that point anyway. Seriously one of the best-directed scenes in all of Bond.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    to say that you can enjoy 90% is misleading as when a writer goes for a huge dramatic ending , then what comes before is building up to that - both in plot and emotional engagement.
  • MalloryMallory
    Posts: 2,171
    I have heard there are a couple of interesting things about Paloma. Any ideas anyone?
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    No body? Check
    James Bond will return? Check
    Casting the 7th actor in 2022? Check
    Don't see what the problem is.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited September 2021 Posts: 3,334
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    On a sidenote for people who keep bringing up Spock, it was apparent they were bringing him back at the end of that very movie. I mean I saw it in the theaters, and everybody knew he was coming back.

    Plus, Spock was not the sole hero of the franchise. They didn’t kill off the entire crew of the enterprise.

    At the time it wasn’t certain. They were pretty serious about killing Spock. Bringing him back to life was a producer’s idea after the fact, and Nimoy was so engaged with making TWOK that he accepted the offer to revive his character so long as he was director.
    I just want to chime in here and say @Birdleson is right. I knew going into seeing Wrath of Khan at the cinema that the producers were bringing back Spock despite his death at the end of the movie. There were various news stories circulating in 82 prior to its release that Spock would return, hinted at by the inclusion of the Genesis Device in the movie. Of course, not everyone had read the tabloid stories informing them of Spock's future resurrection, so it might have been a shock for some of them watching the movie. But the majority of Trekies knew it wasn't the end of Nimoy's Spock and the Genesis Device would come into play in the next movie.

    Not that I think a Star Trek movie should be used as any justification for killing off Bond. They are two seperate franchises entirely.
  • TR007TR007
    Posts: 1,165
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    No body? Check
    James Bond will return? Check
    Casting the 7th actor in 2022? Check
    Don't see what the problem is.
    No body?!? Did we even watch the same movie?
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    TR007 wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    No body? Check
    James Bond will return? Check
    Casting the 7th actor in 2022? Check
    Don't see what the problem is.
    No body?!? Did we even watch the same movie?
    I haven't seen it. Some people here said that there was no body.
  • Fountainbridge1Fountainbridge1
    Posts: 59
    Downbeat ending could have an impact on the box office when word of mouth gets around. Most Bond fans will turn out but worry about others who might just give it a miss. Personally disappointed in the ending - would much prefer to walk out the cinema feeling upbeat.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,525
    The idea of killing Bond definitively just feels so sacrilegious to the source material and like a lazy way out for the end of the era. I’m still going to go see it as I believe in giving everything a fair shake for oneself, but I’m glad I know this happens in advance so my expectations hit bottom. I had a feeling this title was going to divide fans, and oh boy is it ever. This one will be talked about forever, for better or worse.
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    Fountainbridge1 wrote: »
    Downbeat ending could have an impact on the box office when word of mouth gets around. Most Bond fans will turn out but worry about others who might just give it a miss. Personally disappointed in the ending - would much prefer to walk out the cinema feeling upbeat.
    What's the repeat viewing factor? Are you wanting to see it again ASAP or you don't feel like there's any excitement to see it again so soon?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited September 2021 Posts: 4,343
    TR007 wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    No body? Check
    James Bond will return? Check
    Casting the 7th actor in 2022? Check
    Don't see what the problem is.
    No body?!? Did we even watch the same movie?

    Did they show Bond’s corpse?
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