NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

15455575960301

Comments

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,501
    Happy Boyle did not helm this one. And I do like him.
    Gravitas was necessary for Craig's tenure, yes.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,347
    Mallory wrote: »

    Better than what we got.

    At least things wouldve come full circle for Purvis and Wade, as that is how Johnny English ends.

    Yeah, sure…
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    We all have different opinions, I think it is best we respect those instead of thinking ours is definitive or think others are stupid for buying into this film and its conclusion.

    Different people interpret Bond in many varieties of ways, Craig wasn't playing the Bond of the previous era, regardless of your version of Bond and what you expected to see, this conclusion wasn't out of nowhere with Craig's version, this trajectory makes complete sense.

    Then again this is my interpretation of his era, I love him in the role and even though SP sits at no. 25 in my rankings, I think this era was magnificent.

    After having 1 film that showed promise but then following it with 3 parody Bond films, after that period between 1997 - 2002, this was a breath of fresh air. Although this is my opinion again and I know some people loved this version of Bond

    I still think making Blofeld Bond's childhood nemesis is the worst thing in the series history, whereas DC ending the way he does, the poetic poignancy of it all, just feels right.

    Though White should have been Blofeld, that would have made this era make even more sense, it could have easily worked instead of the nonsense that was perpetrated in SPECTRE. Having White as Blofeld and Bond falling in love with his daughter considering White is responsible for Vesper's death and how this era concluded, that would have been perfect.

    Maybe 2 films between NTTD to build up to this in an ideal world, although they could have managed something in a 2.5 hour film instead of the Austin Powers like direction SPECTRE went in.

    Seeing it looks like NTTD is on track to be another hit for Craig and EON, I read that as if things continue in this direction, that Craig will be leaving the series in rude health, regardless of some fans anger over how EON decided to go.
  • Posts: 387
    I think the worst thing for me is that I felt no emotional connection to anything in this film. Not the zero chemistry relationship between Bond and Madeleine, not the death of Felix, not the daddy Bond and the end left me feeling completely cold.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 12,837
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Though White should have been Blofeld, that would have made this era make even more sense, it could have easily worked instead of the nonsense that was perpetrated in SPECTRE.

    Never heard that idea before but it actually really works. Blofeld in the novels founded SPECTRE after making money through private espionage. White’s activities with Quantum could’ve easily been a similar sort of thing. And the reveal would’ve actually been a shock (without feeling like a bait and switch, since Mr White isn’t his real name), that added to the previous films. Bond’s arch nemesis in plain sight of the audience the whole time. Also makes Saffin’s revenge in NTTD feel a bit more cohesive, since White was the one who actually killed his family, but he was already dead by the start of that film. And then like you said, there’s still a personal stake there thanks to Vesper and Madeline, and that’s much more natural than the foster brother story. Great idea.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,009
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Don't agree with it all, but a terrific post, and argument, old chap.

    Yes, indeed, it is.
    As for me, at first, after self-spoiling the movie for myself because I also suspected how would it end, I was apprehensive about going to watch it: If I go to the movies, is to cheer and be cheered, not to cry for fictional people.
    As hours went by I grew less and less apprehensive (I don't regret at all this self-spoiling) and decided to go and see it. However, real life has put itself in between NTTD and me: My job demands long shifts (8 hours working, 4 commuting) and - this is the main reason - after I started collecting movies, I've grown lazy and bored of going to the cinema. I prefer to watch flicks at home (yep, I'm a weirdo).

    On the other hand, my old man, a fan since the beginning of the EON series, when he was 9, is intrigued and thrilled by this ending. I'm buying him a ticket one of these days.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,975
    I've just got back from my second viewing, and my opinion hasn't really changed. I still love it. Despite its way of playing around with the characters and the formula, it genuinely (to me) feels like the most classic James Bond adventure that we've got, with Skyfall also coming close.

    Also, one little thing I haven't seen mentioned. While I agree with those who think it, that Bond and Madeleine had better chemistry this time around, from their very first scene, I feel the film should be commended for its portrayal of a mother and a daughter. I truly believed that that daughter was Madeleine's, in how she looked, but more importantly, the bond that they had (no pun intended).

    I also think they did well to cast a young girl who looked like she could be the daughter of Lea and Daniel.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Did bond adjust his cuff links in this? I can’t recall
  • Posts: 3,334
    Mallory wrote: »
    Hard reboot, has to be.
    I have to admit, part of me is excited but the other half is extremely nervous.
  • I said I wouldn't comment on hear again but can't delete one's account so had to tell you about a very interesting Sunday lunch with my sister and her son who works in the city and was at the premiere, by the way he liked it, I have disowned him. Lot of rumours flying round the city from good sources, so my nephew tells me. Basically Amazon are considering walking away from the MGM deal, their analysts are allegedly saying that NTTD may have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel, added to the FTC investigation, it could fold, just a rumour but interesting don't you guys think.
  • Posts: 6,791
    bondsum wrote: »
    I have to admit, part of me is excited but the other half is extremely nervous.

    I'm there with ya.
    I said I wouldn't comment on hear again but can't delete one's account so had to tell you about a very interesting Sunday lunch with my sister and her son who works in the city and was at the premiere, by the way he liked it, I have disowned him. Lot of rumours flying round the city from good sources, so my nephew tells me. Basically Amazon are considering walking away from the MGM deal, their analysts are allegedly saying that NTTD may have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel, added to the FTC investigation, it could fold, just a rumour but interesting don't you guys think.

    Nah, it's making good money. That's all they need.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 389
    Univex wrote: »

    I'm there with ya.

    Nah, it's making good money. That's all they need.

    Yes but you forget they aren't looking at now, they're looking at the future, as they currently don't own MGM they won't see any of NTTD's profit's if there are any.
  • Posts: 6,791

    Yes but you forget they aren't looking at now, they're looking at the future, as they currently don't own MGM they won't see any of NTTD's profit's if there are any.

    Oh, that's true. But money is an indicator of interest, or at least that's how they'll probably read it.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043

    Never heard that idea before but it actually really works. Blofeld in the novels founded SPECTRE after making money through private espionage. White’s activities with Quantum could’ve easily been a similar sort of thing. And the reveal would’ve actually been a shock (without feeling like a bait and switch, since Mr White isn’t his real name), that added to the previous films. Bond’s arch nemesis in plain sight of the audience the whole time. Also makes Saffin’s revenge in NTTD feel a bit more cohesive, since White was the one who actually killed his family, but he was already dead by the start of that film. And then like you said, there’s still a personal stake there thanks to Vesper and Madeline, and that’s much more natural than the foster brother story. Great idea.

    Yes my friend exactly, you've hit the nail on the head, oh well.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,975
    I said I wouldn't comment on hear again but can't delete one's account so had to tell you about a very interesting Sunday lunch with my sister and her son who works in the city and was at the premiere, by the way he liked it, I have disowned him. Lot of rumours flying round the city from good sources, so my nephew tells me. Basically Amazon are considering walking away from the MGM deal, their analysts are allegedly saying that NTTD may have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel, added to the FTC investigation, it could fold, just a rumour but interesting don't you guys think.
    Honestly, I don't really believe it.

    In what way would NTTD "have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel"?
  • Denbigh wrote: »
    Honestly, I don't really believe it.

    In what way would NTTD "have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel"?

    Just a rumour maybe true or not interesting to see though.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,975

    Just a rumour maybe true or not interesting to see though.
    I understand that, but I just wondered if you knew how NTTD may have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel? Because with the overall response, and now the current numbers we have financially? I don't see what could possibly be considered damaging. Cause if we're talking about the ending, I'll believe this rumour even less.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 389
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I understand that, but I just wondered if you knew how NTTD may have damaged the long term future of MGM's crown jewel?

    Don't know as can't speak for company analysts, but I'd suspect it's to do with killing of the character & being nervous about what happens next, who knows, I just thought it was quite interesting.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 11
    My take aways from the movie

    Yet another Craig era film where they superglue in as many scenes from previous bond films, for example the scene where he tips the car onto Nash and says this is for Lighter almost identical to FYEO car tip scene. Im surprised the film needed that many writers and re writes considering it just takes parts from previous movies and mashes them in even taking music from previous films with 2 tracks from OHMSS. There's giving a nod to the past and fans and then there is just blatant copy and paste.

    Interestingly the best films such as Skyfall don't have that amount of past nod 'baggage' aside from the DB5 scene.

    His watch has an EMP to wipeout an entire floor of a super bunkers electronics but not some tiny nanobots on his face?

    One of the weakest bond villains, who at times looks like he's so weak he can barely hold up his own body weight is able to finally put multiple bullets into Bond a feat which no one else has managed.

    The seminal moment in Bond/movie history they kill him off and its preceded by a quick 2min scene in a tiny dimly lit room where the clink a glass and a min later Madeline drives off credits roll, so in less than 5mins they wrap it all up. The cynic in me thinks it was all tacked on for 'buzz'

    I think the movie would have been better and created a bit of 'controversy' if this era Bond had ended the film sitting at the kitchen table in Norway peeling Apples for Mathilde. After all the tragedy this Bond finally gets something to work. He's not driving off into the sunset with a dame or even dying, but he now has something he lost -Family. The next film would move on and leave this era.

    All the rumblings from comments in the press from studio people for the next era films are a more 'relevent updated' Bond. So i'm guessing he'll be on Instagram checkin out crib of the bitcoin villain he's after, also following the latest Omega watch influencer while sitting in the green cafe ordering his Kale salad waiting on his electric car to charge lol
  • I really can’t think of a better way to end it than Bond’s death, personally. If he retires and gets a normal life after all, then like @Pierce2Daniel said, we’re essentially just where we were in SP. And there’s the question over whether Bond could really have a normal life anyway. He’d always be looking over his shoulder, he made his bed when he became a 00. He could’ve survived and left Madeline to raise Mathilde, gone back to MI6 and resigned himself to being a man of the shadows, but Craig is pushing 60 and we’ve been doing the whole “Bond is getting on a bit” thing for three films now. Not sure normal service resumed would’ve convinced for me. And I think they were wise to avoid an open ending like that, because I don’t think the next actor should be saddled with all the baggage of the Craig era (the realistic aesthetic, the emotional baggage of Vesper/Madeline, foster brother Blofeld).

    Him dying didn’t feel cheap to me either. I thought it felt entirely natural. A normal life will never be possible for him, but he gets to ensure his child will have one (thus avoiding another Bond/Madeline/Saffin) by sacrificing himself. It’s tragic. He finally finds a life past being a blunt instrument, but he’s ultimately too far gone to ever live that life. But it felt like a very fitting end to this era imo, very in keeping with the tragedy of DC’s take on the character. That was probably the biggest strength of the film for me. That it felt like this is what we’d been building towards, despite the fact that they’d obviously just made it up as they went along. It bought a lot of Craig era themes and motifs together in a satisfying way, like how SP tried (and failed, and I say that as someone who really enjoyed it) to do.

    I don’t think they wrapped the overarching plot up very well (the SPECTRE story), but then to be fair, they were left with a very messy and contrived narrative to work with there, so I can’t blame them for shafting it in favour of a more personal angle. And character wise, I thought NTTD ended things perfectly.

    This post totally gets the ending. I agree absolutely @thelivingroyale

    The idea is seeded throughout NTTD. For example, Bond is looking over his shoulder with Madeleine, her supposed betrayal, Nomi telling him that he's a man with nothing to live for, Felix talking about his family and his eventual demise, Bond's speech to Madeleine in Norway, etc.

    Also, it's refreshing that the film doesn't end with the woman dying. Instead, it's the male hero and the woman gets the happy ending. It's noteworthy that the film begins with a mother and child and ends in the same way. There's a comment there on intergenerational cycles of violence. I liked that Madeleine got a 'happy ever after.' She deserved it.

    The ending was very true to Ian Fleming (so was giving Bond a child). I'm sure some Bondologists out there may be able to correct me, but didn't Fleming give an interview where he spoke about killing Tracey where he explained that Bond cannot have a normal life? I believe said Fleming said he wanted to kill Tracy to reflect that. He teased Bond with happiness, only to take it from him. In many ways, it all comes back to that quote from the Moonraker novel:

    "There must be no regrets. No false sentiment. He must play the role which she expected of him. The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette."

    Fleming would have approved of NTTD (remember he killed Bond off at least twice and the death in NTTD id also very similar to Bond's death in the YOLT book). Essentially, it's just the ending of OHMSS switched around. Instead of the girl, it's Bond who died.

    Fleming-and-cigarette.jpg.image.470.274.jpg
  • Posts: 526
    Are the nanobots microscopic? Or are they in his bloodstream?
  • Oh just a complete aside but if your depressed after watching NTTD, can thoroughly recommend FREE GUY, watched at my sisters, think on Disney+, brilliant, funny upbeat movie with a happy ending just right for post pandemic viewing.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 678
    Thank you @Univex and @bondsum. I will say that I'm not averse to sidekicks as concept though, and in the case of Wai Lin etc her presence makes a bit of sense considering the conflict that is attempting to be started in the plot of TND. I also really enjoy seeing Bond and Leiter team-up together. Always have. Nomi is just a very missed opportunity in this case. And I don't think Lynch was able to pull off the big quips well either, unfortunately.

    "Do you know what time it is? Time to die."

    That one elicited a few groans from my audience and I was with them on it. Very forced. Which is a shame as there were some really nice lines in Bond and Nomi's initial exchange, from both parties.

    The idea of Bond losing his number to another agent, male or female, would have been better served in a film that had less going on.
    A quip that was better delivered by Sophie Marceau in TWINE. TWINE is another Bond film that took some bold choices (soapy melodrama, heavy MI6 involvement), and yet was received much worse at large than NTTD, and I don't quite get it, to be honest. Yes, NTTD is shot and (mostly?) directed better, but the screenplays are roughly on the same level for me, with TWINE having better twists and villains IMHO. I don't know, not even Denise Richards is as grating as the "relationship" between Madeleine and Bond for me. It is what it is.

    But yes, I was kinda dissappointed by the material Lashana Lynch was given. When they said she was going after Logan Ash, I expected to see her in some solo espionage scenes kicking some ass, but that was just a footnote in the movie. Meh.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,396
    bondywondy wrote: »

    Amazon generates billions in retail sales so I don't see any incentive for Amazon to want Bond 26 and beyond in cinemas. Cinemas get around half the box office gross. I think the percentage is a sliding scale per week of release.

    Future Bond films on Amazon Prime Video streaming remove the cinema chains cut of profits. Amazon believes streaming is a viable money maker hence why it's making a 400 million dollar Lord of the Rings tv reboot.

    How Amazon Prime Video makes money:
    This means Bond 26 will be funded from Amazon Prime subscription base? I guess so. 119 per year or $12.99 per month.

    In theory Bond 26 exclusively on Amazon Prime Video should attract more customers to join the service. The bottom line is Amazon don't need Bond films to be theatrical releases if Amazon can generate enough new subscribers to watch the films on Amazon Prime Video (which also allows extra benefits when buying Amazon products).

    I think Amazon will not release Bond 26 in cinemas. Maybe 60:40 probability? Unless coronavirus is completely gone in the next few years and box-office back to pre coronavirus numbers, I can't see them honouring any deal to keep Bond in the cinemas.





    Barbara Broccolli has already talked with Amazon and has been assured that Bond will remain in cinemas.

    https://deadline.com/2021/09/james-bond-daniel-craig-no-time-die-amazon-theatrical-streaming-1234844366/

    Until now, Amazon has never had a major film franchise like Bond under their house. Most of their films have been indie fare like THE SOUND OF METAL. And one thing that the pandemic has proven is that simply putting the films online is not viable as many predicted. Also the LOTR TV show isn't comparable, because that's actually a show, rather than just a one-off film.
  • Posts: 526
    Oh just a complete aside but if your depressed after watching NTTD, can thoroughly recommend FREE GUY, watched at my sisters, think on Disney+, brilliant, funny upbeat movie with a happy ending just right for post pandemic viewing.

    Good to have you back Spectre2!
  • Posts: 55
    Weird realization: Mr. White gets the last laugh. He’s somewhat responsible for Bond’s death
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    edited October 2021 Posts: 991
    A quip that was better delivered by Sophie Marceau in TWINE. TWINE is another Bond film that took some bold choices (soapy melodrama, heavy MI6 involvement), and yet was received much worse at large than NTTD, and I don't quite get it, to be honest. Yes, NTTD is shot and (mostly?) directed better, but the screenplays are roughly on the same level for me, with TWINE having better twists and villains IMHO. I don't know, not even Denise Richards is as grating as the "relationship" between Madeleine and Bond for me. It is what it is.

    But yes, I was kinda dissappointed by the material Lashana Lynch was given. When they said she was going after Logan Ash, I expected to see her in some solo espionage scenes kicking some ass, but that was just a footnote in the movie. Meh.

    I thought that when she was MIA during Bond evading Ash and his men, she was maybe a traitor. She only showed up after it was all over... Where was she??? For someone tailing Ash, she was really so far away to give Bond some backup. And to think she was in an Aston Martin but yet couldn't keep up.
  • Posts: 526
    007007x wrote: »
    Weird realization: Mr. White gets the last laugh. He’s somewhat responsible for Bond’s death

    “You’re like a kite dancing in a hurricane, Mr. Bond.” ~ Mr. White (Spectre)
    An all-time favorite quote for me. Incredible scene too.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,629
    007007x wrote: »
    Weird realization: Mr. White gets the last laugh. He’s somewhat responsible for Bond’s death

    I don't know if he does. Given that his daughter was the only thing he seemed to care about, her grief is likely the last thing he would have wanted.
  • Posts: 55

    “You’re like a kite dancing in a hurricane, Mr. Bond.” ~ Mr. White (Spectre)
    An all-time favorite quote for me. Incredible scene too.

    Yeah definitely one of the highlights from Spectre
Sign In or Register to comment.