Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,078
    "
    And Felix will reply, "he died once. It was a long time ago".

    ". . . in fact, we both did!"
  • Posts: 2,161
    Perhaps one day, in a future film, Bond will be at a funeral with Felix, and during the service, Bond will look maudlin and walk away.
    And the vicar will say to Felix . . . "was it something I said?"
    And Felix will reply, "he died once. It was a long time ago".

    Priceless.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Perhaps one day, in a future film, Bond will be at a funeral with Felix, and during the service, Bond will look maudlin and walk away.
    And the vicar will say to Felix . . . "was it something I said?"
    And Felix will reply, "he died once. It was a long time ago".

    Priceless.

    That exchange will be in Bond 27, in 2045.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I like the idea of exploring Bond’s thrill seeking hedonistic side. Bond no 7 could be a young man who really loves his life as James Bond, a nice contrast to Craig while also building nicely off his era (“I shall use my time”). But I’d still like him to feel human, so maybe he could start to indulge a bit too much in all his vices and taking more and more dangerous risks on missions, pushing himself past his limits. That could be a nice character flaw.
    echo wrote: »
    These homages are also explainable as alternate universes.

    Yea, now we've had the mess of the 'CraigBond' era, we can have as many different cinematic 'Bondverses' as we like. It's sci-fi time!
    He can die, come back to life, sprout wings, have X-ray vision, or removable heads like Worzel Gummidge, and it's all okay because they can 'reboot' and make a new Bond that starts again. What fun!

    It's just a good term for a new continuity that has no connection to anything from before. It's got nothing to do with science fiction. The films are not suggesting that there is a literal James Bond multiverse by having two (soon to be three) separate fictional universes.

    I wouldn’t bother mate.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited April 2022 Posts: 7,021
    echo wrote: »
    These homages are also explainable as alternate universes.

    Yea, now we've had the mess of the 'CraigBond' era, we can have as many different cinematic 'Bondverses' as we like. It's sci-fi time!
    He can die, come back to life, sprout wings, have X-ray vision, or removable heads like Worzel Gummidge, and it's all okay because they can 'reboot' and make a new Bond that starts again. What fun!

    After Craig Bond, the Bond producers should fully embrace sci-fi and make an adaptation of George Adamski's Inside the Space Ships. Not exactly Spang Brothers, but at least Space Brothers. ~X(
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,247
    I think for the next James Bond era to really standout from Craig's Bond era, it needs to be outlandish without being silly.
  • Posts: 1,859
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for the next James Bond era to really standout from Craig's Bond era, it needs to be outlandish without being silly.

    How about just a bit larger-than-life.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    edited April 2022 Posts: 7,021
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a good point; now we know Bond can die and isn't invincible, that should actually raise the stakes for future movies rather than lower them. We saw him effectively lose in CR and SF, he hasn't always got the girl, now we've seen him die; it should make the next movie more exciting as we don't know if he'll win or even live. Something we never got in the 60s or 80s or 90s etc.
    I don't find that prospect --the uncertainty of Bond's survival-- particularly enjoyable. I like Bond humanized but not that humanized. It crosses the line from what one might call "delicious thrills" to "truly unnerving thrills," which I'm not that, uh, thrilled about.

    Seeing Bond get into some desperate situations to the point where I don't know how he'll make it out alive, and then seeing him survive, sounds more appealing to me. Like the torture scene in Casino Royale.

    Still, the one Bond death we've had so far in the EON films, while offering room for improvement, was well handled. It's well acted, has good dialogue, and fits the story and the characters. It's just not something I particularly care to see. Survival is more satisfying to me.

    It's interesting to ponder if anyone who appreciated the ending would have still preferred one where he survived. That would've been repeating the ending of Spectre but it's not a terrible sin to commit. Bond just had to go back to work to take care of some unfinished business before truly settling for retirement along his family.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's a good point; now we know Bond can die and isn't invincible, that should actually raise the stakes for future movies rather than lower them. We saw him effectively lose in CR and SF, he hasn't always got the girl, now we've seen him die; it should make the next movie more exciting as we don't know if he'll win or even live. Something we never got in the 60s or 80s or 90s etc.
    I don't find that prospect --the uncertainty of Bond's survival-- particularly enjoyable. I like Bond humanized but not that humanized. It crosses the line from what one might call "delicious thrills" to "truly unnerving thrills," which I'm not that, uh, thrilled about.

    Seeing Bond get into some desperate situations to the point where I don't know how he'll make it out alive, and then seeing him survive, sounds more appealing to me. Like the torture scene in Casino Royale.

    Still, the one Bond death we've had so far in the EON films, while offering room for improvement, was well handled. It's well acted, has good dialogue, and fits the story and the characters. It's just not something I particularly care to see. Survival is more satisfying to me.

    It's interesting to ponder if anyone who appreciated the ending would have still preferred one where he survived. That would've been repeating the ending of Spectre but it's not a terrible sin to commit. Bond just had to go back to work to take care of some unfinished business before truly settling for retirement along his family.

    I would like that. Let him and his family run a chicken farm in Jamaica.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,247
    delfloria wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I think for the next James Bond era to really standout from Craig's Bond era, it needs to be outlandish without being silly.

    How about just a bit larger-than-life.

    Right. Works too.
  • Posts: 202
    The next Bond movie MUST be have more fun, more humour, more gadgets (even the latest Spiderman - who has superpowers! - has more gadgets than Bond!), more beautiful woman, and more kick ass stunts than ever before. I want to see Bond enjoying life and indulging in his vices and in the most beautiful locations on the planet. I want pure ESCAPISM. I loved Craig's era (mostly), but remember, that was a reaction to the Jason Bourne movies. I now want to see EON compete with Marvel in terms of spectacle and excitement. I wonder what the Russo brothers could do with the franchise? They made Captain America Winter Soldier and Avengers End Game. That's where (imho) EON should be looking. Bond used to be the biggest action star on the planet. It's time he took the title back from the comic book heroes.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Risico007 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    These homages are also explainable as alternate universes.

    Yea, now we've had the mess of the 'CraigBond' era, we can have as many different cinematic 'Bondverses' as we like. It's sci-fi time!
    He can die, come back to life, sprout wings, have X-ray vision, or removable heads like Worzel Gummidge, and it's all okay because they can 'reboot' and make a new Bond that starts again. What fun!
    peter wrote: »
    C'mon @ColonelAdamski .... Hyperbole. You know none of which you wrote above will ever happen.

    The film was released last October.

    This thread is Where Does Bond Go AFTER Craig.

    It's time to let NTTD go.

    We all know a new Bond is around the proverbial corner, and the majority of the global audience will not be confused in the slightest.

    James Bond has died and come back to life in back-to-back films (DAD, CR), sported X-ray vision (TWINE), and transported an image of his head onto the ID of another (also TWINE).

    Just saying.

    Didn t he also sprout wings in LALD?

    actually the idea of a wing suit hidden in his tuxedo... wouldnt be as far fetched as we would like to believe...



    what I want is Bond versus Mobsters with Diamonds and the man with the golden gun being inspiration for the next 2 films

    This!
    And you can also add SMERSH and General Grubozaboyschikov, and even the SHAPE and that motorcycle in AVTAK short story, also Zographos has the potential to be a great villain too.
    Make Zographos a member of SMERSH.

    You can have the title of Murder on Wheels.
    You can also include some car racing scenes.


    I'm going to contact Barbara and Michael for this! 😅
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,789
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Excuse me here guys, but:
    When will the Producers adapt the continuation novels?
    They're running out of ideas, they're just recycling.

    The only unused Fleming left was Diamonds Are Forever and The Spy Who Loved Me.
    The Spangs anyone? Or Vivienne Michel? Spectreville as a villain lair in Bond 26?

    That's exactly what I have been banging on about, but you missed out TMWTGG too, which again could be incorporated into a gangster led film. Bond goes after the hit man for the Spangled Mob, under the guise of Mark Hazard.

    I wrote a blog on the subject here - http://broadcastingtechnologyindustry.blogspot.com/2021/

    Thanks! @jetsetwilly I will check this out!
    Sorry for the late response, I've been busy.
  • Posts: 15,116
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.

    Personally I'd love to see Gala Brand. Bit I'd like to have Vesper referred to somehow. Maybe the seventh Bond had his own Casino Royale, like the post Lazenby Bond had their OHMSS and Tracy. Different continuity, but that doesn't mean they have to be completely unlike each other.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited April 2022 Posts: 1,351
    Perhaps one day, in a future film, Bond will be at a funeral with Felix, and during the service, Bond will look maudlin and walk away.
    And the vicar will say to Felix . . . "was it something I said?"
    And Felix will reply, "he died once. It was a long time ago".

    I'm kind of over discussing the end of NTTD, but this got a genuine laugh out of me. Well done.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.

    Personally I'd love to see Gala Brand. Bit I'd like to have Vesper referred to somehow. Maybe the seventh Bond had his own Casino Royale, like the post Lazenby Bond had their OHMSS and Tracy. Different continuity, but that doesn't mean they have to be completely unlike each other.

    Has there ever been a Bond woman in one of the films who just tells Bond "Oh, by the way, I'm engaged to that guy over there, so goodbye" or anything like that? Film Bond always gets the girl (or she dies), right?
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.

    Personally I'd love to see Gala Brand. Bit I'd like to have Vesper referred to somehow. Maybe the seventh Bond had his own Casino Royale, like the post Lazenby Bond had their OHMSS and Tracy. Different continuity, but that doesn't mean they have to be completely unlike each other.

    I'd love to see Gala Brand in the film series one day. Maybe re write her character as Bond #7's Vesper.
    If Vesper is mentioned I hope it's as subtly as Tracy was mentioned in the series after OHMSS
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    I'd also love to see Gala Brand she's one of my favorite literary Bond Girls, but I think Vivienne Michel could also make a good bond girl too.
    Maybe EON can now use the character because Fleming has been long dead.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 4,139
    I think the writers are capable of creating an interesting Bond girl themselves. Just take a look at the better female characters from the Fleming novels, see what made them interesting, and try and apply it in a way that's new and works for the story.

    Personally, I tend to think Bond girls work better when they're femme fatales, not Bond's 'equal', although you could easily have her as a fellow agent a la Gala in Moonraker. Personally would prefer to see a character initially working for the villains though/is more morally ambiguous at first (ie. Pussy Galore or Tiffany Case). It'd be nice to have a Bond girl who's perhaps more world-weary than Bond, especially if they're going with a younger actor for the main role (perhaps she could be slightly older than Bond/what we're used to?) Would like to see Fleming's Bond's tendency to fall in love/try to act as a St. George figure to a woman he sees as a 'bird with one wing down' explored (not in a preachy or 'woke' way - silly culture war term, sorry - but in a way that's organic).
  • Posts: 15,116
    Perhaps one day, in a future film, Bond will be at a funeral with Felix, and during the service, Bond will look maudlin and walk away.
    And the vicar will say to Felix . . . "was it something I said?"
    And Felix will reply, "he died once. It was a long time ago".

    I'm kind of over discussing the end of NTTD, but this got a genuine laugh out of me. Well done.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.

    Personally I'd love to see Gala Brand. Bit I'd like to have Vesper referred to somehow. Maybe the seventh Bond had his own Casino Royale, like the post Lazenby Bond had their OHMSS and Tracy. Different continuity, but that doesn't mean they have to be completely unlike each other.

    Has there ever been a Bond woman in one of the films who just tells Bond "Oh, by the way, I'm engaged to that guy over there, so goodbye" or anything like that? Film Bond always gets the girl (or she dies), right?

    No, never. And it should. I personally used something similar in a short story I've written: my main character has an affair with a woman in a relationship, it gets her into serious trouble (a mobster tries to blackmail her, both financially and sexually), in the end she decides to end things my main character and tell her boyfriend everything. It makes for a better ending than just getting the girl I think. Bit I digress...
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes: clean slate. CraigBond was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and the weight of a hard life by the end. Unfair to burden NewBond with all of that. Let him make his own way and live his own life.

    I agree with this. NewBond does not need the baggage of Vesper (too soon), Madeleine (ditto), or even Tracy (overplayed).

    Let him pick out his own baggage: Gala? Tiffany 2.0 (although that's close to Madeleine)? Goodnight 2.0?

    Tracy overplayed? Surely she was underplayed! Right after the PYS of DAF Bond had forgotten about her! She was then explicitly mentioned three times. Nice moments, by the way, but not exactly overplayed.

    I'd be tempted to keep the Vesper suicide in the new continuity, although not sure how to do it. Since they kept the DB5, why not Vesper?

    If there's a bond girl who will be a new baggage to Bond, I like it to be Vivienne Michel, and have their relationship be like that of Tiffany Case with her leaving him for another man, then in the next movie she's going to get married like what happened to Gala Brand at the end of Moonraker.

    Also they can introduce Loelia Ponsonby as his secretary.

    Personally I'd love to see Gala Brand. Bit I'd like to have Vesper referred to somehow. Maybe the seventh Bond had his own Casino Royale, like the post Lazenby Bond had their OHMSS and Tracy. Different continuity, but that doesn't mean they have to be completely unlike each other.

    I'd love to see Gala Brand in the film series one day. Maybe re write her character as Bond #7's Vesper.
    If Vesper is mentioned I hope it's as subtly as Tracy was mentioned in the series after OHMSS
    Yes I'd like something as subtle. I liked how she was explicitly referred to in TSWLM, FYEO and LTK, even though I'm not the biggest fan of the latter movie.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2022 Posts: 6,296
    CR had the right idea with Bond going after a married woman, which is very Fleming.

    I sense that Eon wants to keep the films as "family entertainment" so we may get more of an affair in the past like in TND rather than an affair playing out in the current film.

    We sort of got Gala in QoS (and DAD). The subtext from Camille, I think, was, "Hey, you're stuck on Vesper right now but I'd sleep with you some other time." (So really, the reverse of the MR novel.)

    But it would be nice to see a more faithful adaptation of Gala. I don't know if Gala rejecting Bond at the end is dramatic enough for the film series as it now stands. (And what woman would reject cinematic Bond? It's a bit of a hard sell.) I also think the flower line is a bit too, well, florid.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    I'd also love to see Gala Brand she's one of my favorite literary Bond Girls, but I think Vivienne Michel could also make a good bond girl too.
    Maybe EON can now use the character because Fleming has been long dead.

    I think that clause flies out the window the day the copyright expires.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    I'd also love to see Gala Brand she's one of my favorite literary Bond Girls, but I think Vivienne Michel could also make a good bond girl too.
    Maybe EON can now use the character because Fleming has been long dead.

    I think that clause flies out the window the day the copyright expires.

    Which Disney will never let happen (think: indefinite extension), and their copyrights expire before Fleming's.
  • Posts: 15,116
    echo wrote: »
    CR had the right idea with Bond going after a married woman, which is very Fleming.

    I sense that Eon wants to keep the films as "family entertainment" so we may get more of an affair in the past like in TND rather than an affair playing out in the current film.

    We sort of got Gala in QoS (and DAD). The subtext from Camille, I think, was, "Hey, you're stuck on Vesper right now but I'd sleep with you some other time." (So really, the reverse of the MR novel.)

    But it would be nice to see a more faithful adaptation of Gala. I don't know if Gala rejecting Bond at the end is dramatic enough for the film series as it now stands. (And what woman would reject cinematic Bond? It's a bit of a hard sell.) I also think the flower line is a bit too, well, florid.

    I think Gala Brand could work, but maybe not in the first film of the new Bond. Second or third? Yes sure.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 2,161
    @MI6HQ You are probably the only person other than me to bring up Zographos on these boards.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @MI6HQ You are probably the only person other than me to bring up Zographos on these boards.

    Oh, I have never thought of that 😅
    Yes, I find him interesting. It was one of Fleming's unfinished short stories.
    Fleming based the character on a real life card dealer with the same name.
    He could make a great Bond Villain.
    And there's also an another unfinished short story from him titled Murder On Wheels, it's really interesting if EON will explore these.

    Thanks @Birdleson
  • Posts: 2,161
    MURDER ON WHEELS is one of the unused Fleming television treatments, as is RUSSIAN ROULETTE. I believe there are still three more out there, that were never turned into short stories.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MURDER ON WHEELS is one of the unused Fleming television treatments, as is RUSSIAN ROULETTE. I believe there are still three more out there, that were never turned into short stories.

    Russian Roulette could be a great Bond Title!
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 2,161
    Not just as a villain, ZOGRAPHOS would be a great title. And it's, as you point out, from Fleming!
  • Posts: 2,161
    I believe this is a fairly thorough annotation (with the text) of unfinished and unpublished Fleming Bond stories, as well as unused concepts from his diaries.

    https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/ian-flemings-second-uncompleted-short.html
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