Is Pierce Brosnan really all that bad ??

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  • Posts: 1,394
    BAIN123 wrote:
    The dialogue from Oromov goes:

    "Defence Minister...Dimitri Mishkin...murdered by British agent...James Bond" (tosses Bond the gun). Himself shot while trying..to..escape...GUARDS!!!

    Somehow I don't think the idea was for the guards to take Bond and question him about the incident any further.

    But Ouromov was whispering that to himself in that was the story he was going to tell as an excuse for killing Bond and Natalya.

    Im not saying Bond didnt need to act but his subsequent slaughter of russian soldiers pretty much makes him look guilty for killing Mishkin.

    Youd think that Bond and Natalya would have had difficulty getting out of russia after the train sequence was over since the were now essentially wanted fugitives.But heck no, all is good and Bond and Natalya have time to smooch.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Err I think the term "suspension of disbelief" needs to be applied here.

    True Oromov whispered it to himself but it was fairly likely he'd have just yelled "KILL HIM" or something along those lines once the guards entered the room. At that point Oromov was unarmed and had given his gun to Bond. The idea was for the guards to shoot Bond - not Oromov.
  • Posts: 15,099
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Err I think the term "suspension of disbelief" needs to be applied here.

    True Oromov whispered it to himself but it was fairly likely he'd have just yelled "KILL HIM" or something along those lines once the guards entered the room. At that point Oromov was unarmed and had given his gun to Bond. The idea was for the guards to shoot Bond - not Oromov.

    Exactly. And it's not like Bond could have explained himself.
  • Posts: 2
    The problem isn't that Brosnan is bad. He wasn't ever bad as Bond. Bond is Bond no matter the time or setting. What urks(frustrates if you have a preference) me/and I'm sure other fans is that Brosnan got dealt some crap scripts that failed to showcase his ability to play Bond to the fullest. It's quite sad. If we look at Brosnan as the character alone, he's a welcome edition to the ranks of Bond sans the scripts(except GE).

    Agree entirely, though GoldenEye was quite good. Wish they'd given him one last shot...his "For Your Eyes Only", if you will.

  • The best Bond in the series
  • Posts: 1,394
    FelixCIA wrote:
    The problem isn't that Brosnan is bad. He wasn't ever bad as Bond. Bond is Bond no matter the time or setting. What urks(frustrates if you have a preference) me/and I'm sure other fans is that Brosnan got dealt some crap scripts that failed to showcase his ability to play Bond to the fullest. It's quite sad. If we look at Brosnan as the character alone, he's a welcome edition to the ranks of Bond sans the scripts(except GE).

    Agree entirely, though GoldenEye was quite good. Wish they'd given him one last shot...his "For Your Eyes Only", if you will.

    See i will never understand why GE has supposedly a better script than Brosnans other Bond films.I thought they all had their strengths and weaknesses just like all the other Bond films.And TND and TWINE were overall better films than GE in my opinion.

    I think GE is looked at less critically because for a lot of fans it was their first Bond movie and because of their nostalgic love of the videogame.

  • Posts: 12,837
    GE>TWINE>TND>DAD.

    GE's story is iffy, it's got quite a few plot holes and the whole thing is a bit silly but it's great fun and it's packed full of great dialouge/scenes, colourful characters, iconic moments and terrific action. It has a great cast, one of the best Bond girls, one of the best Bond actors and it reinvented Bond post cold war. One of the best Bond films, only the Dalton films beat it imho.

    TND is fun but too much of an action fest (and the action isn't as good as GE) and it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity since there are a few great ideas that aren't very well executed. it's alright but nothing special imo. TWINE I think is very good and probabbly the most underrated Bond film ever. DAD is pretty crap but 3/4 isn't a bad track record at all.
  • Posts: 6,396
    GE remains the strongest Brosnan entry in the series because it at least has some genuinely original and thrilling set pieces (the bungee jump and the tank chase).

    We didn't get any of that in TND onwards. Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    AstonLotus wrote:
    FelixCIA wrote:
    The problem isn't that Brosnan is bad. He wasn't ever bad as Bond. Bond is Bond no matter the time or setting. What urks(frustrates if you have a preference) me/and I'm sure other fans is that Brosnan got dealt some crap scripts that failed to showcase his ability to play Bond to the fullest. It's quite sad. If we look at Brosnan as the character alone, he's a welcome edition to the ranks of Bond sans the scripts(except GE).

    Agree entirely, though GoldenEye was quite good. Wish they'd given him one last shot...his "For Your Eyes Only", if you will.

    See i will never understand why GE has supposedly a better script than Brosnans other Bond films.I thought they all had their strengths and weaknesses just like all the other Bond films.And TND and TWINE were overall better films than GE in my opinion.

    I think GE is looked at less critically because for a lot of fans it was their first Bond movie and because of their nostalgic love of the videogame.

    And it was the film that put Bond back in the game after people thought he was on life support. Plus, Natalya's a top ten Bond girl (for me), Alec's a good ally turned enemy, and the action is cool, especially the tank chase. Plus, this scene alone is great:

    Alec Trevelyan: [hanging from his foot held by Bond's hands] "For England, James?"

    James Bond: "No. For me."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    TWINE is underrated, especially on this forum.
    For me, I like TND better than GE because of Brosnan's fine performance. It was his strongest Bond. Overall, I enjoy TND a lot. I think GE is more polished as a film, for the entire film. And it sure was an important film! Getting Bond re-established in such a fine way.
    But TND is still quite a good Bond film for me. Could have done less with so much on the stealth boat, but that's about it. I enjoy most of the action a lot. I like the motorbike chase scene every bit as well (or better) than the tank scene in GE.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.

    Can't agree with that at all. You say that the action sequences after GE are generic but then you single out TWINE which is arguably one of the most inventive Bond films when it comes to action.

    Helicopters with buzz saws, a gadget filled boat chase along the thames, parahawks, when has any of this been done before? I can see why you might find them boring (the direction isn't very exciting, you can tell Apted isn't used to action) but bland/generic?
  • Posts: 6,396
    Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.

    Can't agree with that at all. You say that the action sequences after GE are generic but then you single out TWINE which is arguably one of the most inventive Bond films when it comes to action.

    Helicopters with buzz saws, a gadget filled boat chase along the thames, parahawks, when has any of this been done before? I can see why you might find them boring (the direction isn't very exciting, you can tell Apted isn't used to action) but bland/generic?

    The boat chase is without doubt the most overrated action sequence in the entire series. Not helped by the fact that it's far too long. The barrell roll is ludicrous and badly edited. The skiing/parahawk section is as dull as dishwater. Explosion here, explosion there. Repeat again and again. I'm afraid it's all very much painting by numbers.

    And then we get two shootouts (the nuclear bunker and the caviar factory) culminating with an exploding helicopter that actually rivals DAD in the awful special effects department. It's downright embarrassing.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Well I love TWINE> I like the story and I like the action and I shakl defend it until the day I die.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Well I love TWINE> I like the story and I like the action and I shakl defend it until the day I die.

    I don't actually mind it's story and I think it's Brozzers best performance (despite pain face and shoulderrrrrrrr) but I just hate it's action sequences. Ironically, the most exciting bit is the banker's office, which presumably cost very little compared to the rest of the film.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I don't mind TWINE but it lacks...punch from a directorial view. That's it's main flaw.
  • Posts: 15,099
    Well I love TWINE> I like the story and I like the action and I shakl defend it until the day I die.

    I don't actually mind it's story and I think it's Brozzers best performance (despite pain face and shoulderrrrrrrr) but I just hate it's action sequences. Ironically, the most exciting bit is the banker's office, which presumably cost very little compared to the rest of the film.

    This. It was my favourite action scene, sober, efficient and introduced the plot nicely.
  • Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I don't mind TWINE but it lacks...punch from a directorial view. That's it's main flaw.

    Agreed but I don't think that means it's bland or generic. The majority of the action sequences are fairly original and inventive. The parahawks, the gadget packed boat chase through London, the helicopters with the saws, etc, even if you don't like them, we haven't seen anything like this in a Bond film before, so they can't be considered bland or generic. Boring maybe, like you said, the direction is a bit dull, but paint by the numbers? Nah.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 15,099
    I don't find TWINE bland, just terribly messy. Maybe it is the most uneven Bond movie. And Michael Apted was very arrogant about it in later interviews, which made me dislike it a lot more than I used to.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10755167/Pierce-Brosnan-I-was-never-good-enough-as-Bond.html

    That is the complete interview. Great reading and as for his Bond remarks I can very much understand and see where he is coming from.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Samuel001 wrote:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10755167/Pierce-Brosnan-I-was-never-good-enough-as-Bond.html

    That is the complete interview. Great reading and as for his Bond remarks I can very much understand and see where he is coming from.

    A very nice interview that gives some insight in Brosnan, and yes I do find him an actor that represents an acting era that is gone with the likes of Cary Grant, George Sanders & Dacid Niven.

  • Posts: 6,396
    I've just read the interview with Bros. Can't really disagree with what he says. I've shared that same opinion for the last 15 years.
  • Posts: 1,394
    GE remains the strongest Brosnan entry in the series because it at least has some genuinely original and thrilling set pieces (the bungee jump and the tank chase).

    We didn't get any of that in TND onwards. Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.

    I dont remember any action scene from any film being like the BMW chase or the saigon bike chase in TND.

    TWINE has one of the best PTS action scenes ever and the docklands battle is outstanding also.

    Really like the hovercraft chase in DAD as well as the car duel.

    These were all brilliantly executed and original action sequences.Again, i think those who continually bash the other Brosnan bonds besides GE are just trolling really.

  • Posts: 6,396
    AstonLotus wrote:
    GE remains the strongest Brosnan entry in the series because it at least has some genuinely original and thrilling set pieces (the bungee jump and the tank chase).

    We didn't get any of that in TND onwards. Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.

    I dont remember any action scene from any film being like the BMW chase or the saigon bike chase in TND.

    TWINE has one of the best PTS action scenes ever and the docklands battle is outstanding also.

    Really like the hovercraft chase in DAD as well as the car duel.

    These were all brilliantly executed and original action sequences.Again, i think those who continually bash the other Brosnan bonds besides GE are just trolling really.

    Coming from someone who's criticised Craig in the exact same manner ever since he joined. That really is a laughable comment.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 12,837
    I like Brosnan and Craig. I prefer Brosnan (even though I think Craig is a better actor who's given us a more complex character), simply because I enjoyed him more, but Craig's doing a great job and I can't wait to see him in the next one.

    I actually like all the Bond actors. I have my favourites but I think they all did a good job and each one was perfect for the time they were cast.

    I think Craig and Brosnan bashers are just as bad as each other. It's alright if you have a laugh about it and respectfully disagree (like @Thunderfinger) but I can't stand it when people just post nasty, mean spirited comments about a certain era and it's even worse when they have a go at people who disagree with them.
  • AstonLotus wrote:
    GE remains the strongest Brosnan entry in the series because it at least has some genuinely original and thrilling set pieces (the bungee jump and the tank chase).

    We didn't get any of that in TND onwards. Just very generic and very bland action sequences that had been done before. TWINE is perhaps the biggest culprit because all of it's set pieces are so mind numbingly boring.

    I dont remember any action scene from any film being like the BMW chase or the saigon bike chase in TND.

    TWINE has one of the best PTS action scenes ever and the docklands battle is outstanding also.

    Really like the hovercraft chase in DAD as well as the car duel.

    These were all brilliantly executed and original action sequences.Again, i think those who continually bash the other Brosnan bonds besides GE are just trolling really.

    I agree. The Brosnan Bonds had a lot going for them, and they are really fun movies. Once a new Bond comes to the scene, the previous one is seen as crap. I think more people will appreciate Brosnan's tenure over time. As I recall, Brosnan's movies were loved, as was he, when he was Bond. It's a shame that people (not all) backlash the same person they once supported.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Once a new Bond comes to the scene, the previous one is seen as crap.

    I do think that's true when it comes to the last few actors. People are always slagging off Brosnan now while Craig is perhaps the most popular Bond and Dalton has more fans than ever before, but back when Brosnan was Bond he was the best since Connery while Dalton's films were seen as failures.

    It'll be interesting to see how most people view the Craig films in 20 years time.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 1,394
    I have no problem with people criticising Brosnan or his era of Bond films but some of the comments iv read on this board ( particularly from Thunderfinger ) are just really mean spirited and nasty.

    In my opinion, a lot of the criticism of Brosnans Bond films ( particularly DAD ) come from fans who really take their Bond films too seriously.I enjoy DAD for what it is, a fun action movie thats not meant to be taken very seriously.Its also really laughable when the bashers criticise Denise Richards in TWINE saying along the lines of '' Oh she was just NOT beleivable as a nuclear scientist! ''.Really? Guys the characters name is Dr CHRISTMAS JONES...we are not supposed to take her seriously.She is just a fun bit of camp and sex appeal in a movie to lighten the mood of what was othewise a darker than usual Bond film.

    If you want realism, go watch a documentary.I like Bond movies because they are fun escapism.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 11,189
    The problem with that whole "not meant to be taken seriously" argument is that it does not excuse or account for genuinely poor film-making.

    Moonraker is not meant to be taken seriously and I'm not it's biggest fan, but at least that's a competently made production with a bit of class. We all know Bond films are meant to be fun but I think most people expect a certain standard from a long running series like this. Saying "oh its not meant to be taken seriously" can be a bit of a cop-out. Michael Bay films "aren't meant to be taken seriously".

    I agree that some of the flack Brosnan gets here is mean-spirited BUT some of it is valid. I love Brosnan but you can't argue that even he isn't satisfied with his films.
  • edited April 2014 Posts: 15,099
    If Christmas Jones was supposed to be a joke, not meant to be taken seriously, why did they make her a a nuclear scientist? Pussy Galore has an implausible name, they still cast the right actress to the role, Honour Blackman did not take her character like a joke. I have nothing against the character of Christmas Jones, but she was very poorly cast. We could have had a decent, maybe even great Bond girl with her, an intellectual who tries to hide her sexiness to be taken seriously in her job, instead we got Denise Richards.
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