A View to A Kill - Underrated?

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Comments

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    You are certainly right... I also don't like that he was dubbed most of the time in FYEO. My favourite scene with him is the moment after the Havelocks are murdered when he is nervously fluttering in his cage...
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I like the film very much. Right now I'd just like to single out one aspect: the villain's backstory. It adds quite a bit to the movie and its plot, and I like how even the KGB thinks Zorin is a liability.

    That makes me think I've really missed seeing the villains by themselves, without having Bond around. We haven't had those types of scenes since Quantum of Solace.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Benny wrote: »
    Look if all that works for you,then all well and good. Personally it's all a little to convenient for me. I don't buy the Stacey angle. Possibly the chateau at a stretch, but the rest is far too easy. I know its a film, the story has to mesh together. With AVTAK it seems to happen very conveniently.

    I'm not saying AVTAK is a classic, just that they have at least put reasons on screen to advance the plot. Bond plots often move along by making things easy. The are a lot of other problems with Stacey that I think harm the movie more for me.

  • Posts: 19,339
    I think the Nazi steroid theme is very good,and that keeps my interest in the film...Stacey and all that crap doesnt mean much..as 007's last mission (as i treat it) it works well.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I think the Nazi steroid theme is very good,and that keeps my interest in the film...Stacey and all that crap doesnt mean much..as 007's last mission (as i treat it) it works well.

    The problem of AVTAK is that the production was not perfect. Especially some of the casting choices were not that good. Today a Tanja Roberts would never be casted. I also think that the producers never cared for how well the film will be received in the future and whether some kind of humour might stand the test of time.

    And even though I really like AVTAK, I think they could have made a much better film out of the basic material. If I could go back in time, I would advice them to change mainly the following:

    Cast a younger actor to play Bond. Alternatively: Acknowledge Bond's age a bit better (So don't let him bed every women in this film or make the women at least 10 or 15 years older).

    Skip all the silly jokes like the California Girls song in the PTS. Also balance the tone better like they did in TLD.

    Make the action more intense and the stunt doubles less obvious. Improve the fight sequences.

    Make some of the characters more credible. This especially applies to Stacey who is actually a wonderfully written character but is just ruined by an unconvincing actress and too much scream time.

    Then there are minor issues like Stacey caught by the blimp, the stupid inclusion of the film's title by Mayday and Zorin, Bond hangng on that rope which seems to have no knots for too long, no Felix in America, Bond in bed with Mayday, mi6 regulars being too old...


  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    I find it odd how people trash both AVTAK and TWINE because of the Bond girls. I get that you might not like them but how could that possibly ruin the entire film??

    I dislike Goodnight immensely but that doesn't make me write off TMWTGG and not watch her scenes because they're too "campy". No. I take it into account, obviously, but I don't go around trashing the film only because of it. AVTAK is the poster boy for this kind of hate. Many of you guys start your critique with bashing Tanya Roberts as if to say that she dragged the film down completely. Usually people bash the actress more than the character which is a pity.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 4,325
    I find it odd how people trash both AVTAK and TWINE because of the Bond girls. I get that you might not like them but how could that possibly ruin the entire film??

    I dislike Goodnight immensely but that doesn't make me write off TMWTGG and not watch her scenes because they're too "campy". No. I take it into account, obviously, but I don't go around trashing the film only because of it. AVTAK is the poster boy for this kind of hate. Many of you guys start your critique with bashing Tanya Roberts as if to say that she dragged the film down completely. Usually people bash the actress more than the character which is a pity.

    I would say those responsible for the casting are more culpable. And the writing to a degree. Britt Ekland, for instance, is a lot better in The Wicker Man and Get Carter.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Well as I said, I really like AVTAK. It was even my favourite Bond film for quite some time. I also did not say that the film is ruined by Tanya Roberts. I said that Stacey is ruined by it. This could have been one of the most interesting female characters in the franchise if there was a better and more convincing actress. That really is a pity.

    Above I only mentioned the things that I would have done differently. Hence I find a lot to love in this film... because I think apart from the points I mentioned I really like the film...
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    AVTAK could've been a much better film with a few tweaks here and there.
    Patrick Macnee is a fine actor, and the role of Tibbet is a likable one. A little more screen time would be nice. Especially as Moore and Macnee share good chemistry. It would also aid in Moore's age.
    Mayday was a good henchwoman/villain with real presence and a threat to Bond. No need to turn her into an ally at the last minute. Keep her a villain till her demise.
    Scrap the car chase in Paris and the fire truck chase in San Francisco altogether and include new action set pieces.
    Omit the character of Chuck Lee altogether and cast David Hedison as Felix Leiter once more, nicely bookending the Moore Bond films, not only with Leiter, but also with Hedison.
    Re-write slightly the character of Stacey. She could've been a much better lead, and I even think Tanya Roberts could've achieved this. Less screaming "Jaaaaames." More depth to the character. As written she's too much a damsel in distress, though I do like that she's just an average everyday person who gets mixed up in Zorins plot and is teamed up with Bond to help save the day.
    AVTAK is a film that I want to like more, but there are a few changes that would easily make it much better.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Stacey is abysmal. Rog is definitely past it. I am never a fan of seeing Bond in the US. But having said all of that, I find it quite enjoyable. Zorin is a decent villain. Wonderful score. Classic title song. All in all, like DAF, it's an underrated swan-song for the respective Bong legends. Yes may be in an ideal world Conners and Rog would have gone out on a higher note, but AVTAK is definitley not the complete turkey that many make it out to be.
  • Posts: 1,052
    All the suggestions to improve the film are valid but I guess it is what it is now, a time capsule of 1985, such a weird cast as well with Rog sharing the screen with Christopher Walken and Grace Jones.

    An older Bond would be treated with a bit more sophistication these days, he would be dressed in classic tailoring etc not wearing the leather jacket or the Zorin jacket thing and the hair and make up would be handled a lot better.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    @Benny

    I honestly think that Mayday's turn in the end is reasonable. She was betrayed by Zorin so her revenge is believable and worked very well for me. I like when there is at least some kind of character development and in this case it works so much better than in Moonraker. On the contrary, I don't really like those henchmen who don't have any own personality but rather work as the villains' instruments.

    The problem that I have with Tanya Roberts is that she is way too young for Roger and does not look or behave like a competent state geologist: She is also not really convincing in delivering some of the more scientific lines. When I am watching her explaining the consequences of the double earth quake in the mine, I always think that she has absolutely no idea what she is talking about. As you said the character should remain the "average everyday person" but the actor must be credible in the role.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    GBF wrote: »
    Well as I said, I really like AVTAK. It was even my favourite Bond film for quite some time. I also did not say that the film is ruined by Tanya Roberts. I said that Stacey is ruined by it. This could have been one of the most interesting female characters in the franchise if there was a better and more convincing actress. That really is a pity.

    Above I only mentioned the things that I would have done differently. Hence I find a lot to love in this film... because I think apart from the points I mentioned I really like the film...

    @GBF I wasn't speaking directly of you in particular. It was more of an observation of the majority of fans.

    But I do get your point.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I find it odd how people trash both AVTAK and TWINE because of the Bond girls. I get that you might not like them but how could that possibly ruin the entire film??

    I dislike Goodnight immensely but that doesn't make me write off TMWTGG and not watch her scenes because they're too "campy". No. I take it into account, obviously, but I don't go around trashing the film only because of it. AVTAK is the poster boy for this kind of hate. Many of you guys start your critique with bashing Tanya Roberts as if to say that she dragged the film down completely. Usually people bash the actress more than the character which is a pity.

    I would say those responsible for the casting are more culpable. And the writing to a degree. Britt Ekland, for instance, is a lot better in The Wicker Man and Get Carter.

    Her roles in both those films are more appropriate and convincing. Both are essentially minor parts where she is there to look good. I make no secret in saying that I find Britt Ekland incredibly annoying and unfunny in MWTGG.
  • Posts: 19,339
    So do I....absolutely useless.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I find it odd how people trash both AVTAK and TWINE because of the Bond girls. I get that you might not like them but how could that possibly ruin the entire film??

    Actually, I don't trash them based on just the women. I trash them because they are two of the least interesting Bond films all around. The action is the least interesting more so than the women.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I would certainly say both AVTAK and TWINE are in the same category of "weaker Bond films". Discussing which one is better seems to be a rather fruitless exercise.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I would certainly say both AVTAK and TWINE are in the same category of "weaker Bond films". Discussing which one is better seems to be a rather fruitless exercise.

    Not at all. TWINE is unwatchable garbage. AVTAK is full of great scenes, villains, and music.

    They are not remotely comparable
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    It's amazing the amount of hate twine gets on here. It's been a very long time since I watched it so I can't make a good recent review on it
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I would certainly say both AVTAK and TWINE are in the same category of "weaker Bond films". Discussing which one is better seems to be a rather fruitless exercise.

    Not at all. TWINE is unwatchable garbage. AVTAK is full of great scenes, villains, and music.

    They are not remotely comparable

    Absolutely true, even though AVTAK is one of the weaker entries.
  • Posts: 11,189
    AVTAK certainly has some redeemable qualities but it also has the fire engine chase, which I think is the lowest point of the series prior to DAD.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I don't think it's overrated or underrated; most recognize it's strengths and weaknesses and tend to rank it in the middle to lower middle.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I'm a bit tired of the terms underrated and overrated. Still if there are Bond films that could be called underrated I guess AVTAK is on of them as it usually doesn't show in the upper half of rankings.

    I recently have watched A VIEW TO A KILL with 5 20/21 year old impressive young soldiers that have never seen Bond films before as they thought they are for "old people" :anguished:

    We had watched DAF-TSWLM-MR-YOLT before and AVTAK was their fifth Bond.

    The guys were in stitches a lot of time, like they were with DAF. The comedy element in AVTAK is just great and MayDay and Zorin are wonderfully overacted and camp.

    It's easy to re-watch and the last 60 or so minutes, once the film takes place at the city hall, at the mines and then the bridge, are really great!

    I always have a sense of nostalgia waving Lois Maxwell goodbye. She obviously was too old now to be carried over to the DALTON era but still, maybe they should have kept her for two more films.

    Overall I still can't rank AVTAK near the upper half. It simply doesn't compare to stuff like FYEO, TLD, OP and LTK if we talk eighties.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Agreed. It is the weakest of the 80s.
  • Posts: 11,425
    It may be the weakest of the 80s but that was a fine decade for Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Compared to the 90s, it was sublime.
  • Posts: 352
    Getafix wrote: »
    It may be the weakest of the 80s but that was a fine decade for Bond.

    I thought Moonraker was the weakest of the 80s. Perhaps it's my disdain for the Star Wars franchise.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    MR came out in 79.
  • Posts: 11,425
    MR came out in 79.

    Thanks
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    AVTAK is one of the Bond films that I call a "Late Night Bond." It's especially good at 3 am, when you can't sleep, so you get out a bowl of cereal and put it on. Same with TMWTGG, OP, DAF, and YOLT.

    1. Great title song by DD
    2. Walken makes an awesome villain (one of the best in the franchise)
    3. Grace Jones is a terrific sidekick (gotta love the mismatched lenses in her sunglasses--total 80s chic)
    4. The first act, at Zorin's estate, dealing with the horse sale, is actually quite interesting.
    5. The dirigible is a nice touch.
    6. Patrick McNee is wonderful.
    7. The final act is quite Hitchcockian.


    But...

    1. Beach Boys
    2. Tanya Roberts
    3. Visible stuntmen
    4. Bond getting in bed with Mayday is bad enough: but it also includes a terrible edit, in which two scenes are put together...and not too well.
    5. The plotline: the OP mentioned it as original, but it really isn't. It's basically the same evil plan as Lex Luther's in Superman the Movie (1978).
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