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Dr. No versus the field: Skyfall

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  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,107
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: OP
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: OP
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: OP
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 10
    OP: 7
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    As much as I'd like to vote in this, it's like asking which of my two children I love more.
    Dr.No or Octopussy...Octobenny can't do that.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,107
    Octopussy is good though some of the corny jokes go against it, a few moments removed really would make it a very good Bond film.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 14
    OP: 3
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Benny wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to vote in this, it's like asking which of my two children I love more.
    Dr.No or Octopussy...Octobenny can't do that.

    You named your children Dr No and Octopussy? A true Bond fan.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Octopussy is good though some of the corny jokes go against it, a few moments removed really would make it a very good Bond film.

    I agree. OP was always one of my second tier favorites being unique and often overlooked. But, having just watched it recently, the movie is totally undermined by those lame moments and there are many unfortunately. It has not aged well.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,119
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to vote in this, it's like asking which of my two children I love more.
    Dr.No or Octopussy...Octobenny can't do that.

    You named your children Dr No and Octopussy? A true Bond fan.

    Nick and Nack would be atrociously brilliant.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to vote in this, it's like asking which of my two children I love more.
    Dr.No or Octopussy...Octobenny can't do that.

    You named your children Dr No and Octopussy? A true Bond fan.

    Nick and Nack would be atrociously brilliant.

    Plus you'd instantly know what your third child would be called
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,107
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Octopussy is good though some of the corny jokes go against it, a few moments removed really would make it a very good Bond film.

    I agree. OP was always one of my second tier favorites being unique and often overlooked. But, having just watched it recently, the movie is totally undermined by those lame moments and there are many unfortunately. It has not aged well.

    The serious moments in the film work for me, Sir Roger and Maud are great together. OP has arguably got more worst jokes in the series than any film, then I remember DAD exists. ;))
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    DR. NO vs OCTOPUSSY

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 17
    OP: 0
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,119
    Looks rather harsh there, do you really consider the action in DN better than OP’s?
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    edited February 2018 Posts: 3,369
    Title Track: OP (unabashed lover of the balads in the 70s/80s - love ATH)
    Title Credits: DN (Binder's work gets a little tired here. I enjoy OP's titles, but DNs are far more groundbreaking)
    Main Villain: OP (Khan is one of the three most underrated villains IMO)
    Main Bond Girl: OP (Really nice turn on the Bond girl formula, Maud nails it)
    Henchman: OP (Gobinda has a bit of an Oddjob rehash to him, but he has some humorous bits and Kabir Bedi plays well off Louis Jourdan)
    Overall Plot: OP (For as ridiculous as OP can be in areas, the plot is actually quite reasonable as far as Bond plots go for the time)
    Dialogue: OP (Some of Moore's greatest one liners)
    Score: OP (Barry is consistently great his late tenure Bonds from OP to TLD are all great)
    Settings: DN (India is used nicely in some areas, but I think they could have gotten more out of the locale)
    Action: OP (Easily)
    Humour: OP (Some of Moore's finest, even though it stretches the limit at a couple points)
    Cinematography: DN (Slightly)
    Benign Bizarre: OP (By a fair margin)
    Suspense: OP (The bomb disarming takes down to the very last possible moment!)
    Minor Characters: Tie (Quarrel is the best of the bunch, but OP has deeper set of minor characters. Too close to call)
    Glamour: OP (More consistently glamorous, where DN's glamour mostly takes place in the first 20 minutes of the film)
    Bond Performance: OP (Rog at his height, even if he is starting to age by this time)

    DN: 3
    OP: 13
    Tie: 1

    DN & OP are almost back to back in my rankings, but by the formula OP nails it to a T.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I agree, OP is probably the most suspensefull Bond film which is bizarre when you think of all the campy stuff in the film. You have already mentioned the race against the clock but there are also the great post title sequence, Bond sneaking around in the Monsson Place, the assault of the Indian assassins and Bond's revenge on Grischka. The dark colours and Barry's excellent score support that feeling....
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: OP
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: OP
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 11
    OP: 6
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Looks rather harsh there, do you really consider the action in DN better than OP’s?

    DN is very much in keeping with Flemings novel and the fight scenes and minor action sequences are brutal and serious. OP's pre title sequence is great as is the finale. But the rest is always marred by overt humour. Again I love Roger.....but I prefer Connery.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GBF wrote: »
    I agree, OP is probably the most suspensefull Bond film which is bizarre when you think of all the campy stuff in the film. You have already mentioned the race against the clock but there are also the great post title sequence, Bond sneaking around in the Monsson Place, the assault of the Indian assassins and Bond's revenge on Grischka. The dark colours and Barry's excellent score support that feeling....

    I find LTK and AVTK far more suspenseful.....as Sanchez and Zorin are far more menacing villains.
  • NSGWNSGW London
    edited February 2018 Posts: 299
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: DN
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 12
    OP: 5
  • STLCards3STLCards3
    Posts: 230
    Title Track: OP
    Title Credits: OP
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: OP
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    OP-9
    DN-8

    This doesn't mean that I think OP is better. These categories are not weighted equally (like Overall Plot is way more important than the title credits, etc.) and some of the categories in which DN leads are big. But I am a bit lower than DN than most, so...
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited March 2018 Posts: 2,722
    Title Track: DN ('All Time High' is near the bottom of bond title songs. Bond theme takes it apart and then some)

    Title Credits: DN (OP's is in Binder's fallow period. I really enjoy the zippy DN titles.)

    Main Villain: DN (OP's are spread too thin. DN is in my top 5 bond villains)

    Main Bond Girl: OP (Even though I find OP a little overrated as a Bond girl she has more impact on the plot than Honey. But despite a little initial mystery OP falls into bed with Bond immediately and it deflates any tension between the characters. Maud is a good match with Roger though, but I prefer her performance in TMWTGG. I think objectively OP is a better Bond girl but I prefer Honey)

    Henchman: OP (I like Gobinda. He's a memorable, menacing presence)

    Overall Plot: OP (I love DN's straightforward plot and sinister villain but OP's Cold War espionage and mystery elements leading up to the ticking bomb makes for a good narrative drive.)

    Dialogue: DN (Even though OP has its moments I prefer DN's taut, deadly dialogue.)

    Score: OP (Barry is on great form here. '009 gets the knife and Gobinda Attacks' is a personal favourite of mine, I love the 'dangerous' edge that Barry brought to his last three Bond soundtracks and it starts with OP.)

    Settings: DN ((I really love DN's setting - it's iconic and special. I don't think Glen does an outstanding job with making India really shine. It feels a little more studio bound which isn't the best. However It's actually OP's Cold War settings that I find irresistible.)

    Action: OP (the yo-yo saw attack at octopussy's palace, the PTS and the plane stunts in the climax.)

    Humour: DN (OP's broad humour is awful but it has some sly stuff I like. But I like DN's more.)

    Cinematography: DN (I love the way Jamaica is captured and there is something enchanting about the look of those early 60s Bond - DN and FRWL in particular.)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (close but will give it to DN for metal hands, tarantulas, three blind mice, dragons, DN checking out a naked, drugged bond.)

    Suspense: OP (DN has better suspense across the narrative than OP which oscillates quite drastically but it's the excellent train chase and bomb sequence that win it for OP)

    Minor Characters: DN (except for Vijay I prefer the lethal characters of DN)

    Glamour: DN (OP has a lot of glamour but DN's is undeniable.)

    Bond Performance: DN (Connery at his best.)

    DN: 11
    OP: 6

    Much closer than I would have thought. I adore DN and OP is bottom half Bond for me. I've been more generous here and given suspense and Bond girl to OP - otherwise it would have been a landslide to DN.

    OP's attack at Kamal kahn's palace is a sequence too far. OP benefits enormously from Barry's soundtrack (imagine if it had to contend with something similar to Conti's FYEO attempt).

    But having recently rewatched OP is a good time.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    We're going to keep this one moving along, so...final entries?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Title Track: OP
    Title Credits: OP
    Main Villain: OP
    Main Bond Girl: OP
    Henchman: OP
    Overall Plot: OP
    Dialogue: OP
    Score: OP
    Settings: OP
    Action: OP
    Humour: OP
    Cinematography: OP
    Benign Bizarre: OP
    Suspense: OP
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: OP
    Bond Performance: OP

    OP-16
    DN-1

    Blimey,i like OP but that was a massacre.
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    Posts: 654
    Title Track: OP (I love Bond ballads)

    Title Credits: OP (one of my favorites - love the colors!)

    Main Villain: OP (between Kamal Khan and Orlov - it's no contest!)

    Main Bond Girl: DN (Maud and Rog have fine chemistry but Ursula set the standard)

    Henchman: OP (Gobinda, Mishka, Grishka - no contest!)

    Overall Plot: OP (wonderfully labyrinthine Cold War plot, mixed with elegance and class)

    Dialogue: OP (come on - it's Rog delivering the lines!)

    Score: OP (it's Barry so it's no contest, and this isn't even among his strongest scores - AVTAK and especially TLD would be much better)

    Settings: OP (love the contrast between lush opulence of India and cold grit of Germany)

    Action: OP (no comment)

    Humour: OP (yes the Tarzan, gorilla, palace assault, and clown stuff at the end was unnecessary but the humor of Rog's films always makes me smile - it's all in his delivery and his reactions to the situations around him)

    Cinematography: OP (Alan Hume's work is lush and beautiful, and the stalking of 009 through the forest at the beginning was wonderfully shot)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (yes the early Connery films definitely have the monopoly on the bizarre, which I do love - 3 blind mice, dragon, metal hands, tarantulas, sisters Lily and Rose lol)

    Suspense: OP (with the exception of the tarantula and Dent meeting Dr. No, OP has more suspenseful moments on the whole)

    Minor Characters: OP (this is close but I think OP gets the edge - Magda, Vijay, Gogol, Fanning, and Q at his best)

    Glamour: OP (this is also very close but OP is just more opulent with its glamour I think - from Sotheby's to all the palaces and riches of India)

    Bond Performance: DN (very close too - I actually think Rog gives one of his best performances in OP but his age was starting to creep up on him; Connery is iconic in his first)

    OP: 14
    DN: 3
  • DRush76DRush76
    Posts: 533
    Despite some of the humor in the film, I prefer "Octopussy" over "Dr. No". Besides, I've never been a fan of the 1962 film and I've always been a fan of the 1983 one.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    edited March 2018 Posts: 3,236
    It was a close round of battle, but after the votes were all counted, the score was 199-187-5 for Dr. No. The original Bond also held on to win the total games 13-10 against Sir Rog's penultimate adventure. Now DN moves on to face the end of an era in A View To A Kill. I'll put down my score first, following tradition...

    Title Track: AVTAK (DANCE! INTO THE FIRE! I just can't deny it.)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN (Christopher Walken is great, but he just can't hold up to the quiet menace of Dr. Julius No.)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES)
    Henchman: AVTAK (Counting May Day as henchwoman, if she goes under minor characters it probably pushes AVTAK over the edge)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK (thanks to @ringfire211)
    Settings: DN (A Bond set in Silicon Valley is an interesting idea, but AVTAK doesn't do much with it.)
    Action: AVTAK (The mine massacre gets it over the line, somehow.)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN (But it's closer than you'd think.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 for DN!

    A well-expected blowout, but AVTAK still gets its hits in. Well, that's enough from me. How will your scores look?
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    15 - 2 to DN
  • ringfire211ringfire211
    Posts: 654
    Soundofthesinners wrote: »
    It was a close round of battle, but after the votes were all counted, the score was 199-187-5 for Dr. No. The original Bond also held on to win the total games 13-10 against Sir Rog's penultimate adventure. Now DN moves on to face the end of an era in A View To A Kill. I'll put down my score first, following tradition...

    Title Track: AVTAK (DANCE! INTO THE FIRE! I just can't deny it.)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN (Christopher Walken is great, but he just can't hold up to the quiet menace of Dr. Julius No.)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES)
    Henchman: AVTAK (Counting May Day as henchwoman, if she goes under minor characters it probably pushes AVTAK over the edge)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN (A Bond set in Silicon Valley is an interesting idea, but AVTAK doesn't do much with it.)
    Action: AVTAK (The mine massacre gets it over the line, somehow.)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN (But it's closer than you'd think.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 for DN!

    A well-expected blowout, but AVTAK still gets its hits in. Well, that's enough from me. How will your scores look?

    I'm really confused by something here. How does the DN score beat the AVTAK score?? The weakest Barry (or non-Barry, for that matter) score should easily beat Norman's non-score. AVTAK is an exceptional Barry score! Between this and TLD Barry really went out on a high note!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    This is rather fun! I am wishing I found this thread before AVTAK but here is goes!

    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: AVTAK (Paris, San Fran! Two great cities and both get used to full effect!)
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: AVTAK (it gets tense when the brake gets stuck and it looks like curtains for 007!)
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: AVTAK (lunch in the Eiffel Tower! That right there trumps DN)
    Bond Performance: DN

    Final Score is 9 DN and 7 AVTAK...wow I am surprised AVTAK did so well.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Title Track:AVTAK
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    16 - 1 to DN
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,119
    Title Track: AVTAK
    Title Credits: AVTAK
    Main Villain: AVTAK
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 11
    AVTAK 6
  • DennisonDennison
    edited March 2018 Posts: 1,031
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: AVTAK
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: AVTAK
    Settings: DN
    Action: AVTAK
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: AVTAK
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 13
    AVTAK 4
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