NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I loved Waldo.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,344
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Why didn't Primo die at Blofeld's party in Cuba? He was definitely in the vicinity. Thought he was Spectre and the virus was already weaponized to target Spectre agents.
    My biggest concern is why given 20 years did Safin not try and kill Mr White. Mr White was just hiding in Austria which took Moneypenny two minutes to find.

    It's a good point. I also found the Spectre ring in his Norway secret room a bit jarring- I thought that Spectre had taken Quantum over post-QoS.

    QQ7 wrote: »
    Sorry Ana de Armas, you did fine but the whole scene was generic and forced. I would much more prefer if she appeared in place of Lashana Lynch as the new 007, if producers wanted to overhaul the dark(er) script with Mooresque 70s light humor.

    She's maybe a bit too Cuban to play a British agent! :)
  • Posts: 7,507
    matt_u wrote: »
    I loved Waldo.

    He has some great moments, his first scene is great. But think he gets far too much screentime, and during the climax on the island he becomes a nuisance the film didn't need.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    mtm wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Why didn't Primo die at Blofeld's party in Cuba? He was definitely in the vicinity. Thought he was Spectre and the virus was already weaponized to target Spectre agents.
    My biggest concern is why given 20 years did Safin not try and kill Mr White. Mr White was just hiding in Austria which took Moneypenny two minutes to find.

    It's a good point. I also found the Spectre ring in his Norway secret room a bit jarring- I thought that Spectre had taken Quantum over post-QoS.

    The implication is that Quantum was always a subsidiary of SPECTRE.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,207
    jobo wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I loved Waldo.

    He has some great moments, his first scene is great. But think he gets far too much screentime, and during the climax on the island he becomes a nuisance the film didn't need.

    I found his persona quite tonally jarring, myself. He was far too clownish.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,344
    jobo wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I loved Waldo.

    He has some great moments, his first scene is great. But think he gets far too much screentime, and during the climax on the island he becomes a nuisance the film didn't need.

    Yeah I tend to agree. I think tonally he just felt a bit all over the place for me: sometimes he's a funny secondary harmless villain, sometimes he's totally evil. If you look at something like Boris in GE, who was another comedy villain, he had a fairly consistent path through the film and you knew where you were with him and how to react to his scenes. It felt like they couldn't decide what Valdo was in the film. And his death feels a bit unearned to me with a sudden out-of-the-blue moment of racism: if Nomi didn't need him why did she drag him along?
    mtm wrote: »
    2Wint2Kidd wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Why didn't Primo die at Blofeld's party in Cuba? He was definitely in the vicinity. Thought he was Spectre and the virus was already weaponized to target Spectre agents.
    My biggest concern is why given 20 years did Safin not try and kill Mr White. Mr White was just hiding in Austria which took Moneypenny two minutes to find.

    It's a good point. I also found the Spectre ring in his Norway secret room a bit jarring- I thought that Spectre had taken Quantum over post-QoS.

    The implication is that Quantum was always a subsidiary of SPECTRE.

    It is, but I didn't get that impression from White's scene in Spectre. The implication there was surely that Spectre was relatively new on the scene and muscled in on Quantum.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,180
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    Did it? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that. How so?
    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    Yeah I guess that's quite good. Not sure it totally works with them having a meeting in Austria and also talking about the Canadian agent they're exploiting in Russia etc.
    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    I always thought if they were taking their name from the title then Solace was the creepier word anyway!
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    edited October 2021 Posts: 73
    The dialogue in that opera scene in QoS - "Is this project worth the attention of Quantum?" - could be understood as "is this project worth the attention of South American branch?" Even back in 2008 I was in opinion that if EON gains the rights to SPECTRE Quantum could easily be explained as its subsidiary.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    mtm wrote: »
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    Did it? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that. How so?

    Blofeld and White have been colleagues ever since Madeleine was a little girl, which I take it to mean they started forming SPECTRE around that time. There's also the secret room that Bond discovers that shows old equipment from the 90s. Even the VHS tape with Vesper's interrogation written on it suggests they may have had her coerced into working for them for years prior to CR, which actually tracks with the novel's Vesper revealing she had been working for SMERSH for years before meeting Bond.
    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    Yeah I guess that's quite good. Not sure it totally works with them having a meeting in Austria and also talking about the Canadian agent they're exploiting in Russia etc.

    Probably because it's closer to Blofeld's home. Instead of flying to South America, might as well have Greene conduct a meeting in his home country while enjoying opera.
    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    I always thought if they were taking their name from the title then Solace was the creepier word anyway!

    It's so dumb. By naming them Quantum, that means you can read the title as TERRORIST ORGANIZATION OF COMFORT.

    I remember missing the name drops of Quantum back in theaters because they were uttered in such a casual passing note. There's no moment that emphasizes what their name is like how SPECTRE was in both Dr. No and Spectre.
  • BMWTREKPSEBMWTREKPSE Colorado
    Posts: 105
    Does anyone have a high rez image of Bond & Paloma walking in to the Spectre meeting? That is one of my favorite shots from the movie. Bond in a sharp tuxedo with a lovely lady in a stunning dress. It doesn't get better than that!

    Is there a different thread I should post this in?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    Did it? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that. How so?

    Blofeld and White have been colleagues ever since Madeleine was a little girl, which I take it to mean they started forming SPECTRE around that time.

    I guess he says "he changed" which does imply they've been side by side for a while. Does Blofeld mention her as a girl then?
    There's also the secret room that Bond discovers that shows old equipment from the 90s. Even the VHS tape with Vesper's interrogation written on it suggests they may have had her coerced into working for them for years prior to CR, which actually tracks with the novel's Vesper revealing she had been working for SMERSH for years before meeting Bond.

    Sure, I just took all of that to have been the work of Quantum.
    I prefer the idea that it was Spectre, though.
    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    Yeah I guess that's quite good. Not sure it totally works with them having a meeting in Austria and also talking about the Canadian agent they're exploiting in Russia etc.

    Probably because it's closer to Blofeld's home. Instead of flying to South America, might as well have Greene conduct a meeting in his home country while enjoying opera.


    Sure, but I mean they're all wearing Q pins and yet discussing operations which aren't just in S America- retconning Quantum to be S America-only doesn't quite match up.

    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    I always thought if they were taking their name from the title then Solace was the creepier word anyway!

    It's so dumb. By naming them Quantum, that means you can read the title as TERRORIST ORGANIZATION OF COMFORT.

    Yes, and actually 'Quantum of Terrorist Organisation' at least makes more sense as it suggests that Bond has only uncovered the smallest part of it!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Does anyone have a high rez image of Bond & Paloma walking in to the Spectre meeting? That is one of my favorite shots from the movie. Bond in a sharp tuxedo with a lovely lady in a stunning dress. It doesn't get better than that!

    Is there a different thread I should post this in?

    If you try the NTTD production thread you might find that user @Contraband has one: he's got loads of the images.
  • PJJPJJ Formby
    Posts: 6
    David Mitchell in the Guardian had a good piece on Sunday .

    Quote ” The climax of the film is riveting and tragic, but it’s not just Craig’s acting or the film’s direction that gives it its power – we are moved because of the vast hinterland of warmth and nostalgia we feel for a character we’ve been watching all our lives. The current film-makers are wantonly expending emotional capital the vast majority of which was earned by other people. A precious resource has been squandered in one attention-grabbing and ultimately miserable moment.

    This summed up how I feel far better than I can write.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,180
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    Did it? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that. How so?

    Blofeld and White have been colleagues ever since Madeleine was a little girl, which I take it to mean they started forming SPECTRE around that time.

    I guess he says "he changed" which does imply they've been side by side for a while. Does Blofeld mention her as a girl then?

    During the scene with the meteorite Blofeld mentions to Madeleine that he remembered her as a little girl when he came to visit her father.
  • In reference to Safin just now showing up and going after Madeleine wasn’t she hiding out from the rest of the world up in the Alps when Bond found her? She was under the radar possibly from her dad but also maybe Safin? Just a thought in hindsight. Now that she is living life again and had Bond five years ago it brings it out in Safin to extract revenge and launch his revenge plot that would’ve taken a few years to hatch and to get his claws into Valdo etc.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    JazzyBond wrote: »
    In reference to Safin just now showing up and going after Madeleine wasn’t she hiding out from the rest of the world up in the Alps when Bond found her? She was under the radar possibly from her dad but also maybe Safin? Just a thought in hindsight. Now that she is living life again and had Bond five years ago it brings it out in Safin to extract revenge and launch his revenge plot that would’ve taken a few years to hatch and to get his claws into Valdo etc.

    Exactly.
  • Yeah, thinking on it, since “control” is so important to Safin, he probably wanted to wait until is plan was truly ready.
  • BMWTREKPSEBMWTREKPSE Colorado
    Posts: 105
    mtm wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Does anyone have a high rez image of Bond & Paloma walking in to the Spectre meeting? That is one of my favorite shots from the movie. Bond in a sharp tuxedo with a lovely lady in a stunning dress. It doesn't get better than that!

    Is there a different thread I should post this in?

    If you try the NTTD production thread you might find that user @Contraband has one: he's got loads of the images.

    Thank you @mtm
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    Did it? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that. How so?

    Blofeld and White have been colleagues ever since Madeleine was a little girl, which I take it to mean they started forming SPECTRE around that time.

    I guess he says "he changed" which does imply they've been side by side for a while. Does Blofeld mention her as a girl then?

    During the scene with the meteorite Blofeld mentions to Madeleine that he remembered her as a little girl when he came to visit her father.

    Yes that's right, I remember now, thanks.
  • Posts: 9,843
    bondywondy wrote: »
    My guess is this is what has happened with Bond's death.

    Craig agreed to come back on the condition his Bond died.

    Danny Boyle and John Hodge disagree and are shown the door.

    Cary Fukunaga hired. Screenplay rewritten.

    B and MG don't want Bond to actually die. It's like Bond becoming a woman.. Eon will never do it so they contrive an ending in which the audience are fooled into believing Bond is dead. This gives the impression Craig's era has a definitive ending.

    Bond saves the day but dies.

    Every film critic and most casual or hardcore fans fall for the deception. "Bond is dead, what a shocking event!"

    The deception had worked!

    Eon refuse to confirm Bond is dead. For the next three or more years Barbara Broccoli gives no interviews to confirm Bond's death nor to confirm or deny a reboot is impending.

    Eon never agreed to kill off Bond, they agreed to end Craig's tenure with the illusion that his Bond died. They knew pretending to kill off Bond would be the most outrageous and controversial moment in the franchise's near sixty year history and result in negative reaction but they also knew it would be temporary negativity because Bond 26 will show James Bond escaping death. He avoided the full scale impact of the missiles, he was several feet away from the missile strike. This can be done via a flashback scene showing the missile strike from a different camera angle. You see Bond (new actor) much further away from the missile as it impacts the ground. The explosion and blast wave push Bond away. He falls to the ground, gets up and runs away. By sheer luck he escapes the blast area. He is badly injured and with loss of memory.

    This scenario is doable and can look exciting and dramatic. As for Bond's different looking face... the franchise has already set that precedent. Diamonds Are Forever's pre credit scene follows on from the end of OHMSS. I accept the start of Diamonds is not straight away after OHMSS but the pre credit scene is Bond trying to find and kill Blofeld. He wants to avenge Tracy's death. Bond looks different. He's morphed into Sean Connery!

    The other way is Bond is disfigured from the missile strikes and gets surgery to alter his looks but I think that's a bit cheesy and too predictable.




    While I need to read through the rest of this if they did this Bond 26 would actually turn No Time to Die (still hate that title) into one of my top 5 bond films...


    people ask me how I feel about the new film and I just don't know I really don't.

    It has inspired me to write a song called Why do Hero's have to die. but … I still just don't know

    I have only seen it once but since Thursday I have been wrestling with the film

    The pros

    The PTS is amazing
    I love the Jamaica stuff
    I love the Cuba Stuff (for the most part)
    I love some of the London stuff
    Malik is extremely creepy
    Waltz actually does a good job as Blofeld and his performance here kind of helps me to like his performance Spectre he has no emotion other than hate for Bond he cant get angry or happy or sad he just hates this one guy o much that he is emotionally blank and I kinda like that.
    The Norway stuff is great (for the most part)
    Even the Climax is good for the most part

    this should be top 5 if not top ten but what weighs it down

    the cons
    1. hate the title and really am pissed The Garden of Death was not the title (did Ian Fleming stipulate they couldn't use chapter titles or something I thought the only thing they couldnt use was the spy who loved me though they did) hell name the Nanovirus Risico and there ya go
    2. Bond has practically no sex in the film... Skyfall has a similar issue but I was fine with it for one film but ma... actually now that I think about it Casinoand Spectre are the only films Bod has any kind of sex with 2 girls as even in Quantum...
    3. Paloma rejecting Bond that is weird
    4. the fact that people around my age in the film are seen as stupid
    5. Leiter dying: this bothered me almost as much as the ending he was so good in the Cuba scenes
    6. the way Blofeld Died was way to anticlimactic
    7. the 007 joke... look it was funny the first time but the moment Bond became a 00 again Noomi should of handed him the 007. the film has her coming off like a bratty chld and Bond comes off as well kind of weak as well. I mean if your going to have a new 007 A) why not use the opportunity to bring in Gala Brand. B) if you are wrapping the themes of Casino Royale why not wrap up the big one that the job isn't for everyone and what you have to give to take a life is a cost many wouldn't and shouldn't have to spend.
    8. Bond dying at the end: this was almost comically bad the more I think about it all Q had to say was "look get off the island we will try and figure out a way to make Madeline and Madele immune" there done even if Q is lying it still having them try and save bond instead its like the scene from Friends when Joey's character on days of our lives dies. "Well its the end of the film and end of your tenure time to die Bond."



    ok if i had a gun to my head and had to rank all 28 films (adding in Casino Royale 54, 67 and never say never again)

    1. Casino Royale
    2. From Russia with Love
    3. Quantum of Solace
    4. License to kill
    5. On her majesties Secret Service
    6. For your Eyes Only
    7. The World is not Enough
    8. Octopussy
    9. Thunderball
    10. The Living Daylights
    11. Live and let Die
    12. Goldeneye
    13. The Spy who Loved Me
    14. Dr. No
    15. Skyfall
    16. Goldfinger (the fact bond does next to nothing in the second half of the film bothers me)
    17. Tomorrow Never Dies
    18. You Only Live Twice
    19. No time to Die
    20. The Man with the Golden Gun
    21. Spectre
    22. Die another Day
    23. A view to a Kill
    24. Diamonds Are forever
    25. Moonraker
    26. Casino Royale 54
    27. Never say Never Again
    28. Casino Royale 67

    Next year I plan on trying to see all 25 official films and Casino Royale 54


  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Why didn't Primo die at Blofeld's party in Cuba? He was definitely in the vicinity. Thought he was Spectre and the virus was already weaponized to target Spectre agents.
    So @imranbecks, I'm not sure if anyone fully answered this, but basically, I believe the virus was only to wipe out the high-ranking members. Basically anyone whose probably wearing a ring. The henchmen aren't important, and as @2Wint2Kidd points out, other henchmen were alive to fight Bond and Paloma, so just further supports the idea that it was only targetted against the high-ranking members.
  • Posts: 36
    PJJ wrote: »
    David Mitchell in the Guardian had a good piece on Sunday .

    Quote ” The climax of the film is riveting and tragic, but it’s not just Craig’s acting or the film’s direction that gives it its power – we are moved because of the vast hinterland of warmth and nostalgia we feel for a character we’ve been watching all our lives. The current film-makers are wantonly expending emotional capital the vast majority of which was earned by other people. A precious resource has been squandered in one attention-grabbing and ultimately miserable moment.

    This summed up how I feel far better than I can write.

    I get this point of view obviously not for everyone but the end works for me as it's meant to end Craig's Bond storyline and is earned based on this. Craig's performance here elevates the emotional impact for me despite a hero shot that is a bit on the nose. Have we ever had a movie where Bond is playing his age when the actor is older? I know Roger was up there in AVTAK but he was just playing the typical Bond role not someone who is retired who is brought back for a final mission. I'm more open to an ending like this because we're seeing Bond mostly retired and comes back to save the world one last time......this adds to the tragic nature of it.
    Perhaps a more ambiguous ending would of been more ideal......have a post credit scene with Bond opening his eyes that way people would debate on whether he is actually dead or not. Just spit balling here:)
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I thought the use of the rank commander was interesting during NTTD, in Casino it's alluded to by Vesper, that Bond's former SAS and given his age probably wasn't a commander in the Navy

    I wonder if they brought that up in NTTD to give Bond the status to be able to order a missile strike?
    Maybe to give him some form of status in retirement and over Nomi when she has his 007
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,161
    My guess is they should release the bluray with two endings: the one we got, and one in which we see Bond and Madeleine on a beach and Bond makes a funny remark like at the end of TWINE or DAD. ;-)
    PJJ wrote: »
    David Mitchell in the Guardian had a good piece on Sunday .

    Quote ” The climax of the film is riveting and tragic, but it’s not just Craig’s acting or the film’s direction that gives it its power – we are moved because of the vast hinterland of warmth and nostalgia we feel for a character we’ve been watching all our lives. The current film-makers are wantonly expending emotional capital the vast majority of which was earned by other people. A precious resource has been squandered in one attention-grabbing and ultimately miserable moment.

    This summed up how I feel far better than I can write.

    That's a bit dramatic, wouldn't you say?

    "Earned by other people?" CR was Barbara and Michael's baby. They built this era while the rest of the world was complaining and nagging about how "Daniel Craig is so not James Bond cuz he ugly". They made CR, QOS, SF and SP happen, all of which were successful, some even hugely successful. They and Craig have earned every right to complete the story as they see fit. And those "other people" may have shaped a legacy, but I don't expect B & W to be standing in front of some tombstones asking for permission to do whatever the hell they want. They don't owe the dead anything, and they don't owe us anything. They have kept the Bond legacy in a pretty good shape. The Craig era has been well-received. Some of these films are rated among the highest of the Bonds. And the conclusion of NTTD doesn't take anything away from that. Those "other people" would be proud of where the series is now, I'm sure.

    Likewise, "a precious resource has been squandered"? What, it's all in the toilet now? Another Bond film doesn't stand a chance because people will neither forgive nor forget that this one Bond has died? Seriously? So this one moment squanders a precious resource but the whole of DAD didn't? Wow.

    I generally like Mitchell, but this little piece doesn't strike me as particularly clever.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,180
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I thought the use of the rank commander was interesting during NTTD, in Casino it's alluded to by Vesper, that Bond's former SAS and given his age probably wasn't a commander in the Navy

    I wonder if they brought that up in NTTD to give Bond the status to be able to order a missile strike?
    Maybe to give him some form of status in retirement and over Nomi when she has his 007

    His rank is also brought up in Skyfall when Dench is writing his obituary.

    I think Vesper just incorrectly assumed he was SAS, rather than that actually being part of Craig Bond’s background.

    When CR was launched, Sony actually put on the website Craig Bond’s dossier, which is pretty much a simple updating of Craig’s service record with changes like serving in the Persian Gulf rather than WWII.

    EDIT:
    MI6-HQ actually copied it to their site: https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    My guess is they should release the bluray with two endings: the one we got, and one in which we see Bond and Madeleine on a beach and Bond makes a funny remark like at the end of TWINE or DAD. ;-)
    PJJ wrote: »
    David Mitchell in the Guardian had a good piece on Sunday .

    Quote ” The climax of the film is riveting and tragic, but it’s not just Craig’s acting or the film’s direction that gives it its power – we are moved because of the vast hinterland of warmth and nostalgia we feel for a character we’ve been watching all our lives. The current film-makers are wantonly expending emotional capital the vast majority of which was earned by other people. A precious resource has been squandered in one attention-grabbing and ultimately miserable moment.

    This summed up how I feel far better than I can write.

    That's a bit dramatic, wouldn't you say?

    "Earned by other people?" CR was Barbara and Michael's baby. They built this era while the rest of the world was complaining and nagging about how "Daniel Craig is so not James Bond cuz he ugly". They made CR, QOS, SF and SP happen, all of which were successful, some even hugely successful. They and Craig have earned every right to complete the story as they see fit. And those "other people" may have shaped a legacy, but I don't expect B & W to be standing in front of some tombstones asking for permission to do whatever the hell they want. They don't owe the dead anything, and they don't owe us anything. They have kept the Bond legacy in a pretty good shape. The Craig era has been well-received. Some of these films are rated among the highest of the Bonds. And the conclusion of NTTD doesn't take anything away from that. Those "other people" would be proud of where the series is now, I'm sure.

    Likewise, "a precious resource has been squandered"? What, it's all in the toilet now? Another Bond film doesn't stand a chance because people will neither forgive nor forget that this one Bond has died? Seriously? So this one moment squanders a precious resource but the whole of DAD didn't? Wow.

    I generally like Mitchell, but this little piece doesn't strike me as particularly clever.

    I don't know, I don't agree with Mitchell's overall assessment because the film worked for me, but I'd say he's right that some of the impact of the ending comes around because it's James Bond dying- not just any character, but this iconic one we've been watching all our lives. Whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's a fair comment to say that's where a good deal of the power of the scene comes from.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 691
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    "Earned by other people?" CR was Barbara and Michael's baby. They built this era while the rest of the world was complaining and nagging about how "Daniel Craig is so not James Bond cuz he ugly". They made CR, QOS, SF and SP happen, all of which were successful, some even hugely successful. They and Craig have earned every right to complete the story as they see fit. And those "other people" may have shaped a legacy, but I don't expect B & W to be standing in front of some tombstones asking for permission to do whatever the hell they want. They don't owe the dead anything, and they don't owe us anything. They have kept the Bond legacy in a pretty good shape. The Craig era has been well-received. Some of these films are rated among the highest of the Bonds. And the conclusion of NTTD doesn't take anything away from that. Those "other people" would be proud of where the series is now, I'm sure.

    Eon might have rebooted Bond in 2006, but they still kept coasting on the Bond mythos. That's one of the big problems of the Craig era, it wanted to be its own thing while simultaneously standing on ceremony. Craig's movies are filled with callbacks to the previous actors' movies. Hell, Eon even did a 50th anniversary movie with Skyfall, so saying that they don't owe anyone anything is very silly. They owe everything to the people who came before them. So, if they didn't want people pissed off over this bridge-burning ending, they shouldn't have done it.
    Likewise, "a precious resource has been squandered"? What, it's all in the toilet now? Another Bond film doesn't stand a chance because people will neither forgive nor forget that this one Bond has died? Seriously? So this one moment squanders a precious resource but the whole of DAD didn't? Wow.

    Well, no, it didn't. DAD is a silly, OTT Bond movie. It pushes the envelope in ways it shouldn't have but at least it doesn't tear the envelope up.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I thought the use of the rank commander was interesting during NTTD, in Casino it's alluded to by Vesper, that Bond's former SAS and given his age probably wasn't a commander in the Navy

    I wonder if they brought that up in NTTD to give Bond the status to be able to order a missile strike?
    Maybe to give him some form of status in retirement and over Nomi when she has his 007

    His rank is also brought up in Skyfall when Dench is writing his obituary.

    I think Vesper just incorrectly assumed he was SAS, rather than that actually being part of Craig Bond’s background.

    When CR was launched, Sony actually put on the website Craig Bond’s dossier, which is pretty much a simple updating of Craig’s service record with changes like serving in the Persian Gulf rather than WWII.

    EDIT:
    MI6-HQ actually copied it to their site: https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2.php3

    Ahh that makes sense thanks mate.
    Also I love that they went to the effort of publishing Bond's biography and backstory before Casino
  • The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died. Robin Hood died. Even Superman died... stayed dead for awhile... and then was brought back. And miraculously, the audience went along with it.

    Reboots are fairly common in modern storytelling. The audience has learned to accept them, we should too. If the main thing that bothers you about NTTD is Bond's "death" then get over it. Sean Connery's Bond still "exists," as does Moore's and Brosnan's, Dalton's and Lazenby's. There will be a New Guy and I wish him all the luck (and sexual conquests, and dry martinis) in the world. Bond is dead, long live Bond.
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