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Sorry guys, I merely like NTTD and Mr. Stirred Loves it! ;)
I wish there was a way to make the user names more distinct/standout on here. oh well!
I'm not arguing semantics, I never said "write the ending first". That's a very different claim than what I said. Of course you don't write the ending first — that's impossible!
What I'm saying when I say "write to the ending" is you *always* have a color in mind, a feeling. The mood you want to evoke with a story. Is it transcendent? Is it something tragic? Silly or somber? Is it nostalgic or perhaps dystopic? The mood as a writer you want to inspire informs the emotion of the ending. Which is the real thing that matters! The literal plot points of an ending may differ wildly through drafting and creating, but the feeling remains consistent. Because the feeling is created by what came before and is embedded within it.
I don't know, if I were you guys I would try to come up with some amusing pranks. Like having one of you begin a conversation with a random user before having the other take over without saying anything. Then you could tell that random user they've been replying to the wrong person. Things like that. The possibilities are endless!
Haha, it happens on its own, as I get notifications when someone replies to him but instead tags me! But I like the way you think @mattjoes :D
Agreed about that being the biggest misstep in the film series. Interestingly, the '70s came to be somewhat defined by revenge stories (Dirty Harry, etc.), so a faithful YOLT after OHMSS might have been exactly what those films needed.
Although...the film series, if it maintained that deadly serious tone, may have run out of gas (ha) after a faithful TMWTGG. In a way, I think Connery, Moore, and the tonal shift saved the series.
I wonder if Glidrose ever considered not publishing the unfinished TMWTGG and ending the book series on YOLT. Somehow I doubt it given how popular Bond was at the time.
@slide_99
That is how I envisioned it, too. But Bond's life in Jamaica already did that...right? So that whole idea was messed up.
If you guys really want to mess with people you could swap avatars every other day! ;)
pure evil
:D
On the second viewing the plot was clearer. I understood subtle things that I missed on first viewing, like seeing Logan Ash recruit Cyclops after the Cuba excursion. On first viewing I just took it as Q identifying Ash's location, this time I realised Cyclops wasn't part of Safin's plan from the beginning.
I don't mind the title song but it does nothing for me and the titles aren't my favourite compared with Casino Royale or Skyfall. But I did like them a little more this time, especially the effect of the bullets turning into streaks that show the character's faces, reminiscent of the bursting missile streaks in the air that Bond watches just seconds before his demise.
In many ways this is Madeline's film. It starts and ends with her, and it has to be the most lowkey entrance for Bond in the Craig era. Bond arriving in the story, seen from her perspective. I liked the scene between Madeline and Safin in the office much more this time. And this scene has my favourite performance from Seydoux. She really is the heart of the film and I like that she bookends the story.
Considering the butchering of Blofeld in SP, they managed to create a solid villain with Safin, without being very memorable. The opening goes a long way to helping his mystique. Even though I don't buy his motivation for world destruction as a driving force. I don't think it's a big issue. I like the YOLT tie-in, but disappointed in the poison garden, it could have been more threatening or vivid. And the elephant in the room for me is the Mathilde character. I said before and I'll say again that regardless of what she represents for Bond as a character, from a scriptwriting stance, adding an innocent child in peril in the third act is fairly pedestrian. Especially when Safin just let's her go. It's a minor nitpick on the second viewing, but not very cinematic.
The Blofeld prison scene is shot well and has a good sense of suspense from Bond and Madeline meeting in the hallway to Blofeld being wheeled out. But overall this scene doesn't do much for me. And I think Craig is hamming it up a little here. Looking back at SP the misuse of the Blofeld character is the most egregious error of Craig's era. He's written poorly and while It seems crazy to say it with a double Oscar winner in the role...it really is a shame he wasn't cast better. Someone who had real bristling chemistry with Craig.
I think the writers and director have done an excellent job at unifying all the hanging threads of Craig's era into a fairly cohesive plot. Especially thematically, Bond triggered by a sense of betrayal, Madeline haunted by the man who murdered her mother, Safin's revenge for the killing of his family. The past being the death of us, with only Madeline being the one able to escape her past at the end. Within the confines of the Craig era it's curious how Mr White, Madeline, Vesper, Safin, Blofeld and Bond are all connected and responsible in different ways for each other's creation or death.
I dug the cinematography and music the first time I watched it, and both continue to be highlights, but I also have to give props to Fukunaga's visual touches with blocking and pace of scenes. He does suspense, action and travelogue well. I think the first act is marvellous. Among the strongest of the Craig era or even the series. It is a joy to watch that opening 45 minutes until Felix's death. Flashback, Matera, Jamaica, Cuba. Great chain of sequences for me. And fun to see Felix and Bond smiling, sharing beers and playing games. I can imagine in years to come I'd happily put that first act on multiple times without watching the rest of the film.
Controversial as it may be, for me, the PTS Matera sequence is the only great action sequence in the film. I like the Cuba sequence too, it's fun and has so many Bond trappings. It has good cross cutting of action, but the Matera sequence is special. Because of the loaded DB5, the location, what's at stake emotionally. It has many satisfying layers. But the Range Rover smash up, while looking good, isn't very inventive. Although Bond running around in the mist is visually striking. The end assault on the island gets very impersonal as out of focus figures drop to the sound of machine gun fire. Even though I do like the ambition of the one shot, when people wield machine guns around the corners of hallways I start checking out.
There are things I still don't like. I don't want to see Bond cry and lose his temper too much and tell people he loves them and have a kid. And most significantly, I'm not a fan of killing off Bond. It's just not something I wanted to see. Especially seeing as it has been the trendy thing to do the last few years. I don't think it's 'brave' to kill off Bond. Not after Wolverine, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Superman and Iron Man have all been killed off in the last five years (and just like Superman, Bond will come back).
But at the same time, I think killing off Bond works for this film especially and Craig's tenure in general. Wider than that though...It's ultimately a meaningless sacrifice as he will return. I'm really impressed with how they managed to salvage Madeline from SP. Putting her front and centre of this film is the courage everyone should be applauding.
If I'm conflicted on anything it is the use of 'We Have All The Time In The World'. It's both nice but also a bit lazy. It shows that no one currently has the balls to attempt to write a new timeless love song for a Bond theme. Oh, we've got melancholic tunes like Writing's on the Wall and No Time To Die up the wazoo. But a pure love song? Something as magical as what John Barry, Hal David and Louis Armstrong created is beyond them. They've co-opted OHMSS to sell their own, new tragedy. I both like it and scoff at its inclusion. That song means so much to Bond fans. And now a generation will associate with NTTD rather than OHMSS.
Overall I enjoyed NTTD even more the second time around. What an absolute joy to watch Bond in the cinema. I will never take it for granted. It was especially wonderful to view it after watching all four of Craig's other Bond films in a row. And NTTD helps with my enjoyment of SP. NTTD has the courage of its convictions at least, whereas SP seems conflicted about what it wants to do, especially tonally. And there is a lot of love and care put into NTTD. It is easily the best swan song for a long serving Bond actor. By light years actually.
EON have not simply pumped this one out and considering false starts, directors leaving for creative differences, an indifferent reaction to the preceding film, a reluctant star and release delays - the fact that NTTD is as good as it is, is amazing.
It has so many cool Bondian elements - gadget laden DB5, Q issued watch, Bond in a tux with a slinky dressed woman beside him entering a sinister but lavish party. Felix Leiter in Jamaica in a bar with Bond...takes me to DN, two Double-0s on a mission, a mysterious villain with an island lair full of civilisation threatening weapons.
NTTD is not in my top five list - but I can see why it would already be making other people's top five lists. The series is so varied, a rich tapestry of styles, eras, decades, actors. It's so wonderful to see it continuing 60 years on and also continuing to surprise. I can't wait to see where the series goes next. Especially without Craig, but also I'm hoping they don't have Purvis and Wade. They are responsible for all the 'personalising' of the plots since TWINE. Now, don't get me wrong, they've done great, important work in the Craig era, but I also want to see a change and at present I believe they're even more significant than the actor.
I'm keen to go and watch this in the cinema a third time. Maybe next week if I get the opportunity.
Yeah, and what I said is that King doesn't do that either.
But you don't care about discussing, you only want to be right, so I'll just make you happy :) You're right, King is wrong.
(I put most of the quote in spoilers, to save people a bit of scrolling...)
I would be shocked if BB and MGW don't hire PWB to write the first draft of Bond 26. This is the Eon pattern with writers.
Thanks! I rarely think beyond my top 5 which I doubt NTTD will ever make but that's rarified air for me and not a slight on NTTD.
I've seen a lot of rightful praise heading Craig and Fukunaga's direction, but I hope Barbara (and MGW) are getting the praise they deserve. Especially Barbara. I don't agree with everything they've done (but then again I don't agree with everything Cubby or even Fleming did!) but she clearly has a passion and is a torch bearer for the series. It is not something to be dismissed, all you need to do is look at so many other 'franchises' in cinema to see how they can go off the rails or alienate many fans. So Bond is in good hands and Barbara deserves a lot of kudos.
I rented the movie online for $20. I should have saved my money. By the end of the PTS I was already feeling the pangs of buyer's remorse. Some people on here who won't watch the film shouldn't; they will not like it. I felt compelled to witness the 'event'.
I slam it for lazy writing. Look, many Bonds have suffered from lazy writing, but usually the sheer fun factor made them enjoyable anyway. SPECTRE was stupid, but at least it was fun.
I don't think so. Bond is seen as sophisticated and stylish. Also the films remain popular and in the public consciousness. So I wouldn't imagine it would have any impact. It's a fairly common modern trope for our heroes to suffer, (tortured Dark Knight, tortured Luke Skywalker, tortured Wolverine) I don't think Bond is any exception. So it's not a negative, it's just the norm.
NTTD was also fun, but perhaps the killing of Bond nullifies the fun.
The killing of M nullified the fun of Skyfall for me as well. Well, AND the lazy writing.... ;)
If audiences didn’t gladly eat it up, Hollywood wouldn’t go that route. Brave new world. ;)
Look , I think that is right in the short-term, but that relies, like so much of the Craig era, on the goodwill built up in the decades that preceded the Craig films. There is very little that strikes me as sophisticated or stylish about the Craig films once we get past CR, apart from a perfunctory tux scene. That the film basically tanked in the US - which remains the world's biggest consumer market - should be causing a lot more concern than it seems to on these pages.