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Lost but now found! The Unreleased Bond Music Thread!

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  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 91
    Beakerweb5576 wrote: »
    Ok - will try and do it later

    Bless you!
  • GettlerGettler USA
    Posts: 325
    NoTimeToLive wrote: »
    Oooh I'd love either "Retreiving DNA Data" or "To Poison Island", please. :D

    I am pretty sure that "To Poison Island" is just "The Factory" from the OST.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    edited September 27 Posts: 91
    Gettler wrote: »
    NoTimeToLive wrote: »
    Oooh I'd love either "Retreiving DNA Data" or "To Poison Island", please. :D

    I am pretty sure that "To Poison Island" is just "The Factory" from the OST.

    Oh yeah, you're right. They swapped the tracks' order ("The Factory" should be after "Gearing up" or after "Poison Garden") but "To Poison Island" and "The Factory" are the same length.
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 57
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    Nice observation... You mean the first time of the whole saga, after 50 years? Maybe you're right, I can't find counterexamples at the moment ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,174
    Yeah I can't think of any other times. It's actually quite a neat little innovation: allows you to bring the iconic Bond guitar sound in without even playing the riff.
  • Beakerweb5576Beakerweb5576
    edited September 27 Posts: 56
    The soundtrack is different to the YouTube videos released so far - the explosion isn’t on the end of the Vespa tomb music and the tanker horn is not on the end of the Trawler music. Will upload Retreiving DNA data later (tried last night but laptop needed a massive Windows 11 update first)
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 54
    just got my copy today quality of audio and condition of cd decent enough ,as noted before NO sfx.notes for the perfectionists and completists that i've found so far explosion to hotel seems identical to message from a friend ie minus film version klaxon like horns for bonds matera bridge jump.trawler is partially diffferent mix on felix death scene.back to norway/home is album version replete with eilish humings. and finally end credits doesnt have film lenght end notes i think.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    edited September 29 Posts: 7,009
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 54
    actually strike my earlier rushed typed overview on that expanded nttd ,this albums "explosion to hotel" track sounds like the final intended film version mix before the actual tweaked film cue was arrived at ,notably this track has a small section of rising tension bond theme replaced in the film by those alarm synthesised horns just before bond jumps off bridge and therefore differing in subtle ways from its corresponding official album track "message from a friend".
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,174
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.

    Oh yes of course, thank you.
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 57
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.

    Oh yes of course, thank you.

    Let's say Skyfall is the first time the vamp is played on guitar without the riff following it ;)
  • BondsNameJamesNameBondsNameJamesName United States
    Posts: 3
    bcalou wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.

    Oh yes of course, thank you.

    Let's say Skyfall is the first time the vamp is played on guitar without the riff following it ;)

    I'm kinda glad it carried through into the NTTD score, it just feels right.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,274
    BondsNameJamesName wrote: »
    bcalou wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.

    Oh yes of course, thank you.

    Let's say Skyfall is the first time the vamp is played on guitar without the riff following it ;)

    I'm kinda glad it carried through into the NTTD score, it just feels right.

    💯 💯 💯
  • chrisesqetcchrisesqetc London
    Posts: 46
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    Howdy folks. I’m a rare poster, regular reader. It’s probably been since around the time NTTD arrived since my last post.

    Just wanted to mention that I've ordered this bootleg as well and plan on combining it with other NTTD material (such as the LP's demo tracks) and sending that off to Download-Soundtracks and making it available so if you can't afford it or are dubious of it, I'll be around in a few weeks to share it with other fans.

    Here's my version of the artwork that I've put together in anticipation of working on the arrangement:

    No-Time-to-Die-Expanded-Score.jpg

    For others interested in film scores, I'm working on an ultra collection from Michael Mann's HEAT with a bootleg of the recording sessions I found a little while back.

    Thank you for sharing this. Love your artwork and am very much looking forward to hearing your new arrangement of the NTTD soundtrack :)
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 8,971
    bcalou wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Nice work!
    Is that the first time in the films the vamp is played on guitar? NTTD did that a lot.

    The Spy Who Loved Me's gunbarrel music did it first. I don't know if there are other examples.

    Edit: Of course I know. The gunbarrel music of For Your Eyes Only.

    Oh yes of course, thank you.

    Let's say Skyfall is the first time the vamp is played on guitar without the riff following it ;)

    Can someone enlighten me what "the vamp" is, please?
  • bcaloubcalou France
    Posts: 57
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Can someone enlighten me what "the vamp" is, please?

    It's the repeated four notes at the very start of the Bond Theme :

    In general, a vamp is "a repeating musical figure or accompaniment" (thanks Wikipedia). I guess you could also call it the "Bond bassline".

    It was probably one of the very important contribution of Barry to Norman's theme.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,174
    Yeah I think the court judgement for the Barry vs Norman case breaks the parts down quite well; I can't quite remember all of them, but I remember:

    Vamp - the four-note tune, usually played on strings, which lies beneath pretty much the whole theme (the bit you hear as Bond is walking in the gunbarrel!)
    Riff - the main twangy melody, usually played on guitar (played as Bond turns and shoots in the gunbarrel)
    Bebop 1 - the big brass, jazzy swing upbeat part of the tune which often plays as some outrageous action is taking place
    Bebop 2 - which is the second part of this, but to be honest I'm not quite sure how that's defined as two parts
    Bridge - the connecting bit at the end of the bebop, which I would say is the brassy alternating phrases which lead to the big Bond fanfare notes before the vamp starts again.
    Coda - is that the twangy guitar end note?

    I would also say there's the:
    Fanfare - the opening big striking notes to most gunbarrel sequences
  • bcaloubcalou France
    edited 2:00pm Posts: 57
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I think the court judgement for the Barry vs Norman case breaks the parts down quite well; I can't quite remember all of them, but I remember:

    Vamp - the four-note tune, usually played on strings, which lies beneath pretty much the whole theme (the bit you hear as Bond is walking in the gunbarrel!)
    Riff - the main twangy melody, usually played on guitar (played as Bond turns and shoots in the gunbarrel)
    Bebop 1 - the big brass, jazzy swing upbeat part of the tune which often plays as some outrageous action is taking place
    Bebop 2 - which is the second part of this, but to be honest I'm not quite sure how that's defined as two parts
    Bridge - the connecting bit at the end of the bebop, which I would say is the brassy alternating phrases which lead to the big Bond fanfare notes before the vamp starts again.
    Coda - is that the twangy guitar end note?

    I would also say there's the:
    Fanfare - the opening big striking notes to most gunbarrel sequences

    I think the Coda also includes the rising notes before the final guitar chord :)

    And the "Fanfare" is part of the Bridge, I guess, but extracting it to place it right at the start of the gunbarrel in FRWL was a genius move. What a powerful opening.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 3:18pm Posts: 16,174
    bcalou wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I think the court judgement for the Barry vs Norman case breaks the parts down quite well; I can't quite remember all of them, but I remember:

    Vamp - the four-note tune, usually played on strings, which lies beneath pretty much the whole theme (the bit you hear as Bond is walking in the gunbarrel!)
    Riff - the main twangy melody, usually played on guitar (played as Bond turns and shoots in the gunbarrel)
    Bebop 1 - the big brass, jazzy swing upbeat part of the tune which often plays as some outrageous action is taking place
    Bebop 2 - which is the second part of this, but to be honest I'm not quite sure how that's defined as two parts
    Bridge - the connecting bit at the end of the bebop, which I would say is the brassy alternating phrases which lead to the big Bond fanfare notes before the vamp starts again.
    Coda - is that the twangy guitar end note?

    I would also say there's the:
    Fanfare - the opening big striking notes to most gunbarrel sequences

    I think the Coda also includes the rising notes before the final guitar chord :)

    Oh of course, that went out of my head for some reason. So basically the post-gunshot part to the gunbarrel that Arnold and Hamlisch used.
    bcalou wrote: »
    And the "Fanfare" is part of the Bridge, I guess, but extracting it to place it right at the start of the gunbarrel in FRWL was a genius move. What a powerful opening.

    Yeah, you're right, it is part of the bridge structurally, but I guess I kind of pluck it out on its own because of that gunbarrel usage really and it often gets used on its own elsewhere. You're right it is genius, but then I guess Barry was one! :)
    What do you think they mean by bebop parts 1 and 2? Where's the divide? I found the court case report: you can see the definitions at the start:

    http://www.jollinger.com/barry/lawsuit.htm

    Here's what they say:
    Bebop 1: the first part of the brassy jazz section, contains some elements of "Bad Sign, Good Sign" but again with substantial reworking.
    Bebop 2: the second part of the brassy jazz section. Norman is claiming that this is based on the middle section of "Dr. No's Fantasy" not for the melody but for the feel. This seems to be stretching it even to my non-musical ear.

    :-?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T.
    Posts: 7,009
    mtm wrote: »
    bcalou wrote: »
    And the "Fanfare" is part of the Bridge, I guess, but extracting it to place it right at the start of the gunbarrel in FRWL was a genius move. What a powerful opening.

    Yeah, you're right, it is part of the bridge structurally really, but I guess I kind of pluck it out on its own because of that gunbarrel usage really. You're right it is genius, but then I guess Barry was one! :)
    I agree, I have thought about this in the past and I feel that's the ultimate stroke of genius of the Bond Theme: the way it was adjusted to fit the gunbarrel sequence. And to think that only started with the second film.

    mtm wrote: »
    What do you think they mean by bebop parts 1 and 2? Where's the divide? I found the court case report: you can see the definitions at the start:

    http://www.jollinger.com/barry/lawsuit.htm

    Here's what they say:
    Bebop 1: the first part of the brassy jazz section, contains some elements of "Bad Sign, Good Sign" but again with substantial reworking.
    Bebop 2: the second part of the brassy jazz section. Norman is claiming that this is based on the middle section of "Dr. No's Fantasy" not for the melody but for the feel. This seems to be stretching it even to my non-musical ear.
    Could bebop 2 be what you're referring to as the bridge, and the bridge be the fanfare?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 3:31pm Posts: 16,174
    Oh maybe, yeah. I guess those bits would divide up a bit more naturally.

    Here's how it's defined a bit further into that:

    1-4 The Vamp - 2 repeated bars
    5-10 Guitar riff -2 bars repeated twice
    11-12 last two bars of riff- striking semitone descent
    13-20 Repeat of Riff - but with a slight trombone variation (only on recording)
    21-24 Repeat of vamp
    25-28 Bebop1 4 bar phrase
    29-32 bebop 1 repeat of 25-28 except last two notes are different
    33-40 bebop 1 repeat o 25-32
    41-42 bebop 2 - beginning of riff in modified form. i.e. melody is related to the riff
    43-44 41-42 repeated
    45-46 Central climax to bebop2
    47-48 vamp
    49-56 Riff
    57-60 ends with the coda which is related to 25-28

    So yeah, bebop 2 is what we were thinking is the bridge, and then apparently the 'bridge' doesn't appear! :D
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