Why Octopussy is Roger's most perfect Bond movie

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  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    @w2bond - I love OP too - particularly the action scenes. Roger doesn't feel as robotic in the hand-to-hand fight scenes in the film, and the stunts are some of the series' best. The chases are all really riveting (except the tuk-tuk one).

    @ForYourEyesOnly Oooh I see you have it at 8!!! Yay!

    The action in the Glen films is great. Not filmed in the most exciting way but they are fun and unique (Tanker chase, barefoot ski, TLD necros fights, drive in the country, etc)

  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    @w2Bond - I think the ski chase in FYEO was filmed very well.

    And yes, I am an Octopussy apologist.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    @ForYourEyesOnly I'm not too keen on the FYEO ski chase (OHMSS did it better) and the score ruins it. However, as a whole I've always had a soft spot for FYEO even though there's not many standouts
  • @w2Bond - I don't think you can ignore just how far OP takes Bond into the realms of parody at times. Most of Moore's other movies had higher esteem for Bond, at least. OP also doesn't have any single moment that is generally considered to be one of the best in the series (for instance, the parachute scene in TSWLM).

    AVTAK sees Bond and his stunt double with equal running time. jks jks

    But I do agree that OP sees Bond at his greatest level of self-parody. But, hey, so what? I found it entertaining, whilst I find most of the other humour in Moore's tenure plain bad (i.e. the sumo wedgie from TMWTGG is just awkward). I laughed when Bond said 'sit' to the tiger. Which is uncommon, but I did!

    What you say about nothing being the best in OP can be blanketed over the Glen era as a whole I would wager. But damn some of that action and stuntwork comes pretty close.
  • w2bond wrote: »
    @ForYourEyesOnly I'm not too keen on the FYEO ski chase (OHMSS did it better) and the score ruins it. However, as a whole I've always had a soft spot for FYEO even though there's not many standouts

    Oh what? Come on, @w2bond that chase is classic! A lot of raw suspense prior to the jump and the part with the bobsled is just great! OK lots of people hate the disco score of that part which is not a good fit, but it's a fun chase after all.

    Oh and yes there was some very good action in Glen's era. But some of it could have been done a bit better I think. Mostly in AVTAK, or it could have just been Moore...
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    w2bond wrote: »
    @ForYourEyesOnly I'm not too keen on the FYEO ski chase (OHMSS did it better) and the score ruins it. However, as a whole I've always had a soft spot for FYEO even though there's not many standouts

    Oh what? Come on, @w2bond that chase is classic! A lot of raw suspense prior to the jump and the part with the bobsled is just great! OK lots of people hate the disco score of that part which is not a good fit, but it's a fun chase after all.

    Oh and yes there was some very good action in Glen's era. But some of it could have been done a bit better I think. Mostly in AVTAK, or it could have just been Moore...

    @IncompetentHenchman Oops! Yeah the bobsled bit is great and same when all the beginner skiiers get knocked over. I do like FYEO it's currently number 7 but as a whole it can get forgotten among the more grand/larger than life entries in the series.
  • Posts: 7,537
    And lets not forget a stuntman was killed in FYEO ski sequence, the part where Bond skis into the bobsled run.
    i was always torn between FYEO and OP, with the former winning out, but the more i watch OP the better it gets. Good story and villains, great action and spectacle, and for me one of the most under-rated theme songs, 'All Time High'.
    Roger does give his best performance, whether his confrontation with Orlov, convincing the Generals about the bomb, or the moment Octopussy tries to get him to join her organisation.... "I'm not for hire!"
  • Posts: 1,985
    OP was a great Bond film. It was a Roger Moore Bond film. No other actor that played Bond could pull of playing the role in OP. OP was a Moore made Bond film. It just wouldn't have worked with any other actor.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    OP was a great Bond film. It was a Roger Moore Bond film. No other actor that played Bond could pull of playing the role in OP. OP was a Moore made Bond film. It just wouldn't have worked with any other actor.

    I agree 102.35 % :D

    I consider OP to be one of 6 perfect Bond movies.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    It is, along with TSWLM, the quintessential Moore flick.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,661
    The stakes are really high in Octopussy. If Bond doesn't stop the bomb then Russia will sweep through Europe or the US will launch full nuclear attack. I wouldn't mind seeing that sort of scale of threat in a future Bond film. The chase to stop the bomb going off is one of the highlights of the franchise, I reckon. Roger Moore's Bond films were a bit over-the-top but the threats were major and scary. Octopussy's plot is classic Bond!
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    Octopussy is easily my favorite Moore film. When i first got into Bond (around 97 shortly after GE came out) Octopussy was one of the first non-Brosnan Bonds i got on vhs and i got addicted to that movie, and watched it over and over, don't ask me why. I always thought that this might be the reason why i still like it so much, simply because i saw it so many times, but reading the posts here i can see that it really is just better then the other Moore films. It has the perfect balance of style, grit and humor.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I love the OP love, still not reflected in rankings but I like the positivity here!
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,817
    Actually now that I think about it... perhaps I'm overanalysing a fun movie but I have doubts as to whether Orlov's plan would've worked even if the bomb went off.

    Would Europe really have insisted on 'unilateral disarmament'? And even if they did would Gogol let Orlov do what he wanted? The validity of Orlov's plan hinges on both of those un-likelihoods.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Actually now that I think about it... perhaps I'm overanalysing a fun movie but I have doubts as to whether Orlov's plan would've worked even if the bomb went off.

    Would Europe really have insisted on 'unilateral disarmament'? And even if they did would Gogol let Orlov do what he wanted? The validity of Orlov's plan hinges on both of those un-likelihoods.

    That's quite a good question.

    Perhaps more likely would be European countries insisting on the removal of any bombs on their territory effectively disbanding NATO. This would then result in USA saying 'bugger you then' and retreating to within their own borders.

    In the aftermath of this disaster Britain might well have a elected a screamingly left wing Michael Foot Labout government that campaigned on a ticket of disarmament in the 1983 election. Not sure about France.

    End result would be that Russia could march through West Germany and the Eastern block as far as France and it would rest on whether or not France wanted to launch their nukes to stop them. Probably not because they know Russia would anhiliate them.

    I think Orlov's assessment is correct in terms of America retaliating. After Europe's insistence on disarmament why would they risk a full scale nuclear war to stop the Russians taking Czechoslovakia and Germany?

    There might be a ground war I suppose with Britain, France and maybe the US sending troops but if the Russians were prepared to see it through then they would prevail as Orlov is right that we would be too decadent to stomach the levels of casualties Russians can put up with.

    To sum up it might get messy and Russia would likely be a pariah state with the USA and China afterwards but Orlov could probably achieve his objectives more or less.

    Whether the politburo would agree to follow through with this is a different matter. For years merely the threat of America's nukes on their own soil was enough to keep the balance and stop Russia going into West Berlin so with the American nuclear threat unlikely to have gone away (no way the USA is going to scrap its nukes at the height of the Cold War for one accident far away in Germany) the whole thing hinges on the assumption that USA won't retaliate with nukes to save Europe - which I think is a sound one.
  • Posts: 1,082
    OP is a great Movie indeed, probably fourth or fifth on my list, but I prefer TMWTGG and perhaps also MR out of Moore's Bond Movies. However, Roger was never better as James Bond than he was in OP.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Well, TMWTGG is my favourite...
  • Posts: 1,082
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, TMWTGG is my favourite...
    TMWTGG has been my favorite Bond film for years now, so I agree, good sir.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, TMWTGG is my favourite...
    TMWTGG has been my favorite Bond film for years now, so I agree, good sir.
    It was the first Moore Bond I got on Blu Ray, and boy does it look amazing...

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    TMWTGG is a guilty pleasure of mine as well. I can't objectively rank it high because I know Sir Rog did better movies (including OP) but for pure fun, TMWTGG is truly one of my faves.
  • Posts: 1,098
    I think Octopussy is a very good Bond film, with a good story and some top notch action.
    Shame the producers introduced some truly cringe worthy humour in the Tiger hunt.

    TMWTGG, umm a weak story, but Chris Lee is truly superb as the villian.
  • Posts: 1,082
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Well, TMWTGG is my favourite...
    TMWTGG has been my favorite Bond film for years now, so I agree, good sir.
    It was the first Moore Bond I got on Blu Ray, and boy does it look amazing...
    bondjames wrote: »
    TMWTGG is a guilty pleasure of mine as well. I can't objectively rank it high because I know Sir Rog did better movies (including OP) but for pure fun, TMWTGG is truly one of my faves.

    Great to hear guys, there are fans of "The Golden Fun" out there. :D
    mepal1 wrote: »

    TMWTGG, umm a weak story, but Chris Lee is truly superb as the villian.

    I agree with you about Lee, and yes, the script wasn't perfect (obviously rushed). I love the premise though: the best hitman in the World vs. 007, and as a whole I love the Movie.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    And if you 'mute' just as the car begins its jump for 2 seconds it makes the whole film better! :D
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,098
    chrisisall wrote: »
    And if you 'mute' just as the car begins its jump for 2 seconds it makes the whole film better! :D

    JW Pepper after the car roll........."wow wee, i aint never done that before".

    Regarding the script to TMWTGG, i believe it's the only Bond film that Cubby said he would of liked to of had re-written.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Not to sidetrack this discussion, but for me, TMWTGG shares something special with OP, namely charisma. It's bursting from that film too, like it is from OP, despite being a weaker film overall.

    That quality is an important one for me. It's what keeps me coming back to a film.
  • Posts: 533
    For me, "FOR YOUR EYES ONLY" was Moore's best Bond film. However, I feel that "OCTOPUSSY" was his second best.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    bondjames wrote: »
    Not to sidetrack this discussion, but for me, TMWTGG shares something special with OP, namely charisma. It's bursting from that film too, like it is from OP, despite being a weaker film overall.

    That quality is an important one for me. It's what keeps me coming back to a film.

    I know exactly what you're sayin'. :)>-
  • Posts: 4,045
    chrisisall wrote: »
    And if you 'mute' just as the car begins its jump for 2 seconds it makes the whole film better! :D

    You've still got to see Sheriff Pepper's not perfectly formed arse straight after.

    Take one of the best Bond stunts ever, add one swanee whistle and one guy in khaki shorts and one not so good American accent, and you still have a great stunt (slightly ruined).

    So, if I mute the sound for 2 seconds and then close my eyes for the next 2.....
  • Actually now that I think about it... perhaps I'm overanalysing a fun movie but I have doubts as to whether Orlov's plan would've worked even if the bomb went off.

    Would Europe really have insisted on 'unilateral disarmament'? And even if they did would Gogol let Orlov do what he wanted? The validity of Orlov's plan hinges on both of those un-likelihoods.

    That's quite a good question.

    Perhaps more likely would be European countries insisting on the removal of any bombs on their territory effectively disbanding NATO. This would then result in USA saying 'bugger you then' and retreating to within their own borders.

    In the aftermath of this disaster Britain might well have a elected a screamingly left wing Michael Foot Labout government that campaigned on a ticket of disarmament in the 1983 election. Not sure about France.

    End result would be that Russia could march through West Germany and the Eastern block as far as France and it would rest on whether or not France wanted to launch their nukes to stop them. Probably not because they know Russia would anhiliate them.

    I think Orlov's assessment is correct in terms of America retaliating. After Europe's insistence on disarmament why would they risk a full scale nuclear war to stop the Russians taking Czechoslovakia and Germany?

    There might be a ground war I suppose with Britain, France and maybe the US sending troops but if the Russians were prepared to see it through then they would prevail as Orlov is right that we would be too decadent to stomach the levels of casualties Russians can put up with.

    To sum up it might get messy and Russia would likely be a pariah state with the USA and China afterwards but Orlov could probably achieve his objectives more or less.

    Whether the politburo would agree to follow through with this is a different matter. For years merely the threat of America's nukes on their own soil was enough to keep the balance and stop Russia going into West Berlin so with the American nuclear threat unlikely to have gone away (no way the USA is going to scrap its nukes at the height of the Cold War for one accident far away in Germany) the whole thing hinges on the assumption that USA won't retaliate with nukes to save Europe - which I think is a sound one.

    Wow, thanks for the really thorough explanation, @TheWizardOfIce I'm inclined to think you know exactly what you are saying so I'll take it from you. I guess this must be why some people in retrospect find OP's plot difficult to grasp.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 337
    pachazo wrote: »
    OP is definitely entertaining but I can't agree it's Moore's best. Count me in with TSWLM crowd

    This. Octopussy was fun, but in my opinion there were too many villains and not enough of a reason to care about them. They should've stuck with making Orlov the primary villain, in my opinion. He had the right sort of overacted craze. Kamal Khan had no menace whatsoever.
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