NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • Posts: 230
    @CountJohn personally I'd say that's another case of blaming the actor for something that wasn't their fault. Safin was a half-baked villain, for sure (like Blofeld before him in Spectre), but I think he did well with the material given to him (like Waltz before him in Spectre). Where improvement needed, was writing.

    With a few rare exceptions like Silva all Bond villains are underwritten and it's up to the actor to make the character with the performance. All he did was mumble and look blank faced. He brought nothing whatsoever to the role. Even if you don't like how it was written he brought nothing whatsoever to it.

  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 420
    CountJohn wrote: »
    @CountJohn personally I'd say that's another case of blaming the actor for something that wasn't their fault. Safin was a half-baked villain, for sure (like Blofeld before him in Spectre), but I think he did well with the material given to him (like Waltz before him in Spectre). Where improvement needed, was writing.

    With a few rare exceptions like Silva all Bond villains are underwritten and it's up to the actor to make the character with the performance. All he did was mumble and look blank faced. He brought nothing whatsoever to the role. Even if you don't like how it was written he brought nothing whatsoever to it.

    Agreed, in a film where they clearly wanted to concentrate on Bond and his relationships, they might have been better to select an person who has immediate impact and looks the part first and foremost, rather than an actor who needs to be provided with quality dialogue to work with in order to persuade the audience of their evil intentions.

    The likes of Basil Rathbone, Richard Widmark, Lee Marvin, Jack Palance, Lee van Cleef, Neville Brand, Albert Salmi, Jack Elam... Mads Mikkelsen or Javier Bardem, don't need any lines at all in order to establish their credentials.

  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Univex wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Good to see you finally back @Luds, albeit too fleetingly. Many here won't remember what a big cheese you used to be on KTBEU and the early days of MI6, but I do kind of miss that tuxedoed image of Clive Owen not popping up every day on the forums. For the record, I don't think you're wrong for expressing your opinions about the ending. I too am rather ambivalent towards it.

    Yeah, moreover, whatever you do, @Luds, don't go away again ok? You have no idea how you're needed again around here ;)

    Thanks lads, it's nice to pop-in! I can't say for sure I'm back, likely just visiting but I'd like to make more of a semi-regular thing than a one time shot ;)

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    CountJohn wrote: »
    @CountJohn personally I'd say that's another case of blaming the actor for something that wasn't their fault. Safin was a half-baked villain, for sure (like Blofeld before him in Spectre), but I think he did well with the material given to him (like Waltz before him in Spectre). Where improvement needed, was writing.

    With a few rare exceptions like Silva all Bond villains are underwritten and it's up to the actor to make the character with the performance. All he did was mumble and look blank faced. He brought nothing whatsoever to the role. Even if you don't like how it was written he brought nothing whatsoever to it.

    I guess you're right. I thought he was sufficiently eerie in the beginning, and in the scene in Madeleine's office.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 693
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Simon wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I feel some people here seem to miss the point. Bond chooses to die because he didn’t want to live that life without his family.

    Pretty sure his plan involved getting off the island. He didn't choose to stay, he was beaten. Once the silo doors started to close, he was never getting away. There was no choice involved, he was bested by a foe, who on the scale of Bond Villainy, was not all that great.

    And had taken at least three bullets, by which time he was barely able to climb that ladder that lead him to the rooftop. It wasn't suicide.

    I viewed this as another Craig era subversion of a Bond trope.

    Agreed. It's like I said, NTTD is following the Hollywood trend of franchise subversion. The question is, why subvert to begin with? For an initial shock that only works once but leaves a lingering bitterness long after, like a Vesper martini? What do they gain from this ending, aside from audience shock? If we're willing to admit there's no strict continuity then they could just as easily given it a happy conclusion and not pissed off a lot of fans.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,185
    slide_99 wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Simon wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I feel some people here seem to miss the point. Bond chooses to die because he didn’t want to live that life without his family.

    Pretty sure his plan involved getting off the island. He didn't choose to stay, he was beaten. Once the silo doors started to close, he was never getting away. There was no choice involved, he was bested by a foe, who on the scale of Bond Villainy, was not all that great.

    And had taken at least three bullets, by which time he was barely able to climb that ladder that lead him to the rooftop. It wasn't suicide.

    I viewed this as another Craig era subversion of a Bond trope.

    Agreed. It's like I said, NTTD is following the Hollywood trend of franchise subversion. The question is, why subvert to begin with? For an initial shock that only works once but leaves a lingering bitterness long after, like a Vesper martini? What do they gain from this ending, aside from audience shock? If we're willing to admit there's no strict continuity then they could just as easily given it a happy conclusion and not pissed off a lot of fans.

    I rather they focus on making a good film than worry about pissing off fans. If they worried too much about angering a loud minority then Craig would have never gotten the part and we would have been stuck with a dull clothes horse like Henry Cavill.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    I rather they focus on making a good film than worry about pissing off fans.
    They can do both, you know. They've been doing it for 60 years.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    slide_99 wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Simon wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I feel some people here seem to miss the point. Bond chooses to die because he didn’t want to live that life without his family.

    Pretty sure his plan involved getting off the island. He didn't choose to stay, he was beaten. Once the silo doors started to close, he was never getting away. There was no choice involved, he was bested by a foe, who on the scale of Bond Villainy, was not all that great.

    And had taken at least three bullets, by which time he was barely able to climb that ladder that lead him to the rooftop. It wasn't suicide.

    I viewed this as another Craig era subversion of a Bond trope.

    Agreed. It's like I said, NTTD is following the Hollywood trend of franchise subversion. The question is, why subvert to begin with? For an initial shock that only works once but leaves a lingering bitterness long after, like a Vesper martini? What do they gain from this ending, aside from audience shock? If we're willing to admit there's no strict continuity then they could just as easily given it a happy conclusion and not pissed off a lot of fans.

    Craig was interested in that subversion from that start. He's on record as saying that it was the main reason he took the role. He would not have if James Bond was being drawn up as the same as always.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,551
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I rather they focus on making a good film than worry about pissing off fans.
    They can do both, you know. They've been doing it for 60 years.

    I doubt it. People will find anything to complain about, I’m sure they pissed off some people throughout those 60 years. Look at all the people who were pissed off in 2006. I think you’re mistaking your feelings for everyone’s feelings.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 140
    slide_99 wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    Simon wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    I feel some people here seem to miss the point. Bond chooses to die because he didn’t want to live that life without his family.

    Pretty sure his plan involved getting off the island. He didn't choose to stay, he was beaten. Once the silo doors started to close, he was never getting away. There was no choice involved, he was bested by a foe, who on the scale of Bond Villainy, was not all that great.

    And had taken at least three bullets, by which time he was barely able to climb that ladder that lead him to the rooftop. It wasn't suicide.

    I viewed this as another Craig era subversion of a Bond trope.

    Agreed. It's like I said, NTTD is following the Hollywood trend of franchise subversion. The question is, why subvert to begin with? For an initial shock that only works once but leaves a lingering bitterness long after, like a Vesper martini? What do they gain from this ending, aside from audience shock? If we're willing to admit there's no strict continuity then they could just as easily given it a happy conclusion and not pissed off a lot of fans.

    I agree. This is a result of Barbara Broccoli appeasing to Craig's every whim. The ending of 'NTTD' is one of the reasons why Danny Boyle got into an argument with Craig and EON. Killing Bond probably has Cubby rolling in his grave, though I doubt that he would have ever allowed Craig anywhere near this intellectual property.

    I know that a lot of hard work was put into 'NTTD,' but technically, the film should not exist. The only reason it does is because 'SPECTRE' is a totally underdeveloped mess. The final scene of Bond and Madeleine riding off was CLEARLY intended as the conclusion of the Craig saga. That notion bothered me from the very beginning of 'NTTD' and I couldn't shake it off completely as I watched.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,185
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I rather they focus on making a good film than worry about pissing off fans.
    They can do both, you know. They've been doing it for 60 years.

    That’s not entirely accurate. In fact the only years where you could say they tried playing things safe was with the Brosnan films after they took a radical departure from formula with LTK that resulting in mixed results.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 482
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,551
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.

    100% agree. And as I’ve said before it’s divisiveness makes me like it all the more. They went bold, and it had an impact.

    It’s funny how many new members appear to have signed up just to complain about it. Did that happen with Spectre when it came out?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It will remain controversial ... for awhile. However, I found it to be a meaning death for Bond; genuinely noble and heroic. If Bond was going to die in any Bond film, I am glad it was this film, this actor in particular, and this director. I never thought any Bond film could pull that off, killing Bond. In my opinion, they really did. Of course it is tragic, does not end on a happy, upbeat note for this most realistic of all Bonds - but the ending was filled with layers of meaning and they gave him a heroic end that is appropriate for Craig's Bond's story. It was very well done. I do value NTTD.

    I also look forward to the next one. Very much so. Clean slate for sure. But I am a very happy Bond fan these days. I hope NTTD continues to do well enough to be considered successful. Certainly it is historic and it is heartwarming that outside the U.S. it is performing extremely well.

    I think audiences who did not rewatch Spectre may have had some difficulty at first in getting the importance of Madeleine or indeed of Spectre. Six years between films is a VERY long time for the general movie-going public to remember key elements of a movie.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,974
    I didn’t feel like waiting any longer to see it again so taking this work holiday tomorrow and going to catch the first showing of it for my second viewing. I hope I can get a ticket in time.
  • Posts: 526
    Just got home after watching it for the third time. It just gets better and better each time i see it. The scene where Bond and Madeleine drive into Matera is such a beautiful experience with the stunning location and the gorgeous music. I could watch that scene a zillion times and never tire of it. I've said it before, but i love Paloma, she is such a fun, lovely character. I wish she had more screen time, but she certainly makes an impact with what she has. After seeing the film for the first time, i thought that Craig's performance was on par with CR - but the more i see of NTTD, i actually think that this is his best performance. He's so human. I've totally warmed to Madeleine and on a few occasions i felt like i wanted to give her a hug. I feel as though i've just sat through a two hour film, it flew by and i just know i'll be making a trip to the cinema again pretty soon. An outstanding film.

    The Matera scene is one of my all-time favorite Bond scenes. Going to visit there one day. Stunning.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Just got home after watching it for the third time. It just gets better and better each time i see it. The scene where Bond and Madeleine drive into Matera is such a beautiful experience with the stunning location and the gorgeous music. I could watch that scene a zillion times and never tire of it. I've said it before, but i love Paloma, she is such a fun, lovely character. I wish she had more screen time, but she certainly makes an impact with what she has. After seeing the film for the first time, i thought that Craig's performance was on par with CR - but the more i see of NTTD, i actually think that this is his best performance. He's so human. I've totally warmed to Madeleine and on a few occasions i felt like i wanted to give her a hug. I feel as though i've just sat through a two hour film, it flew by and i just know i'll be making a trip to the cinema again pretty soon. An outstanding film.

    The Matera scene is one of my all-time favorite Bond scenes. Going to visit there one day. Stunning.

    Agreed. It’s easy to see why it featured so heavily in the marketing.
  • Posts: 526
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Obviously, yet that doesn't make the decision to go in that direction any less vexing for those who are unhappy with it.
    Correct.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    I viewed this as another Craig era subversion of a Bond trope. If Bond had been racing back to close the doors, been shot three times, killed Safin, opened doors, and made it out with ten seconds to spare while still managing to survive his wounds, the public would have mostly widely accepted it as okay because Bond can't die. He always survives. He always finds a way. He is immortal. He makes it out of every impossible life-threatening situation and saves the world. (Just see many arguments on this thread that make this very point in order to offer critique of this movie.) But he didn't. Because of the nanobots. The insertion of that plot point changed everything. This Bond was never going to fulfill the Bond trope of surviving the impossible because he didn't want to live without his family. So I viewed it as the writers' way of presenting the audience with the familiar while showing that this Bond is very much not familiar. He wanted a life with his family not just any life at all.

    All this to say, if we would be willing to accept him surviving those clearly fatal wounds to service a "Bond always survives" plot, then I'm not sure we can use the same wounds to discredit his choice in the plot we were given.

    "You only live twice. 
    Once when you are born. 
    And once when you look death in the face."

    There was simply not enough time to escape the island, or even the bunker. Had Bond not had to go back to re-open the blast doors, and had he not been shot multiple times by Safin, he might have had time to do so. But he doesn't. That's just the logic of the film.

    The nanobots had nothing to do with his death. Not directly. Asking Q about how to get the stuff off was Bond’s way of coming to terms with his own inevitable & imminent destruction. Meaning, that he could never touch Madeleine & Mathilde again somehow made death's acceptance that much easier for him.

    Immortal?

    Where is it written that Bond doesn't die? He's not a god. Though, ironically, he does achieve a kind of godlike ascension into myth by the end of the story. And there can be little that is more indicative of his heroism than that.

    Just because there is no precedent for his death is not an argument against it - but rather a belief, or even an article of faith in something like ... well, what? The Church of James Bond?

    It's not much of a stretch to say that the single-most important thematic factor in the entire Craig run of films is the demonstration that his Bond is human. Very human. All too-human. That he bleeds, that he suffers, both physically & emotionally - just like all of us. And ultimately that he dies, too -  his own sacrificial lamb, as in the equally unprecedented deaths of Mathis, M & Felix before him. This is the thematically consistent conclusion to his films.

    I don't see the Craig movies as "subversion" but rather as a fascinating reiteration of a character we all thought we knew, perhaps too well, if only because the brushstrokes in presenting him both onscreen and in print were so few or so broad. Craig has literally fleshed out the Bond character, just as others may reinterpret him in the future.

    It might have been nice if Bond had found some happiness along the way, but of course in the Craig context, therein lies Bond’s tragic flaw. And then, the same thing that made him a superbly efficient state-sanctioned killer (half monk, half hitman) was never going to make him fit comfortably into any life of domesticity. Now that might have made for an interesting creative choice to explore, but hardly a heroic one.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I rather they focus on making a good film than worry about pissing off fans.
    They can do both, you know. They've been doing it for 60 years.

    That’s not entirely accurate. In fact the only years where you could say they tried playing things safe was with the Brosnan films after they took a radical departure from formula with LTK that resulting in mixed results.

    TND didn't do anything new due to the script basically being improvised, but the other entries each introduced new concepts with varying degrees of success.
    GE: first time another 00 is a major player, and a villain at that. First use of a mostly electronic/industrial music score. First female M.
    TWINE: first female villain. MI6 being bombed. M taking a lead role in the story. Bond being tortured. Bond killing a woman in cold blood.
    DAD: Bond captured and imprisoned by a foreign government, abandoned by MI6.

    Overall the era was safe in terms of structure and the major plot beats, but it did enough new stuff to make it interesting.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 49
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    I agree with the comments about Bond and Madeleine. While I agree that she was underwritten in Spectre, I liked her and understood what they were trying to do. Madeleine was never intended to be written as the same romance as Vesper. Just take the two train scenes in contrast. In CR, the scene is definitely charged full of chemistry and the two are full of banter and sizing each other up. Bond even admits to feeling "skewered" after she accurately but brutally "reads him" (though he was clearly enjoying himself). In Spectre, Madeleine spends the dinner scene in the train asking Bond about him, wanting to understand his perspective and choices in a world she clearly already understands. And in that scene, she never actually judges him for his answers. And Bond is leaning forward over the table as if he's captivated by her being the first one to ever stop to ask him.
    Interviews for Spectre said they wanted Madeleine to be soulful and I think they hit it out of the park with Lea though she was served better in NTTD. Madeleine is soulful, somber, mature, and incredibly sincere with the limited words she uses. Bond is older and damaged and the tender, quieter love suits him. He had awesome chemistry with Paloma, but I disagree with the comments that she should have been the female lead. It doesn't suit what Craig's Bond wants at this time in his life.
    Also, Vesper and Bond did get a "young love" style montage, but that served the storyline and needed to be given to secure the shock of Vesper dying and that she was playing him the entire time. Madeleine gets an overarching thread in two films. It's her actions that show how she feels. While it could have been definitely better handled and written, she offers her love so innocently in Spectre after he had done little to earn it, then tries to leave so she wouldn't be the one to change him. She never betrayed him the way Vesper did. She handles his rejection with complete grace, bears/loves/raises his child for five years, never stops loving him, forgives him for his mistrust with little explanation offered, and then takes him back. This is why Bond didn't want to live without her in the end. She genuinely offered him everything and more that he thought he was getting with Vesper at the time. I think Lea plays the scene in Norway when he's confessing how he feels beautifully. She is not a typical Bond girl - flashy, flirtatious, etc. She was never intended to be one. Not another Bond girl would have made the choices she made. Bond's words are very telling. He says he doesn't regret a moment of his life that led him to Madeleine. That includes Vesper's death too. All of that led him to Madeleine.

    This is an extra ordinary perceptive post. Just one comment, in the trailer the scene with Blofeld she says the lines "you don't know what this is" as an accusation whether it was an alternative take or one of the pick ups from December 19 those lines are offered with sympathy in the movie, they are a mirror of "your a kite dancing in a hurricane Mr Bond" but from an entirely different emotional perspective. Madeleine is sympathetic to Bonds naivety because Blofeld is right she still loves him and that "intimate scene" in Norway shows the weight of that love for both of them . Its mostly non verbal but Lea and Daniel communicate the knowing journey of what they really feel to each other and the audience perfectly.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,185
    Those certainly were baby steps, not big of a shakeup as you make it. And Elektra is not the first female villain, that was Klebb. And if you try arguing that she doesn’t count then I guess Largo was only a henchman too.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 420
    slide_99 wrote: »
    That’s not entirely accurate. In fact the only years where you could say they tried playing things safe was with the Brosnan films after they took a radical departure from formula with LTK that resulting in mixed results.

    TND didn't do anything new due to the script basically being improvised, but the other entries each introduced new concepts with varying degrees of success.
    GE: first time another 00 is a major player, and a villain at that. First use of a mostly electronic/industrial music score. First female M.
    TWINE: first female villain. MI6 being bombed. M taking a lead role in the story. Bond being tortured. Bond killing a woman in cold blood.
    DAD: Bond captured and imprisoned by a foreign government, abandoned by MI6.

    Overall the era was safe in terms of structure and the major plot beats, but it did enough new stuff to make it interesting.

    Exactly, the previous post was just another ill thought out cheap shot at the Brosnan era

    And you have perhaps overlooked the Paris Carver element of TND - Bond encountering an ex while on a mission, which was that films contribution to Bond character enrichment program.

    In fact you could say the Brosnan period followed on from LTK in trying to introduce a modicum of character development, but was criticised, by those who longed for a much more melodramatic Bond, for being only cosmetic and not going far enough.

    It was only after the Roger Moore era had run it's whimsical course that people began calling for the character to "develop". Dalton pushed for that, but perhaps the audience weren't quite ready or perhaps other factors intervened to thwart him (depending on your personal perspective on the Dalton era)
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 420
    Feyador wrote: »
    ...Immortal?

    Where is it written that Bond doesn't die? He's not a god. Though, ironically, he does achieve a kind of godlike ascension into myth by the end of the story. And there can be little that is more indicative of his heroism than that.
    Oh the Humanity!
    Feyador wrote: »
    Just because there is no precedent for his death is not an argument against it - but rather a belief, or even an article of faith in something like ... well, what? The Church of James Bond?

    And speaking of the Church of Saint-Daniel...
    Feyador wrote: »
    It's not much of a stretch to say that the single-most important thematic factor in the entire Craig run of films is the demonstration that his Bond is human. Very human. All too-human. That he bleeds, that he suffers, both physically & emotionally - just like all of us. And ultimately that he dies, too -  his own sacrificial lamb, as in the equally unprecedented deaths of Mathis, M & Felix before him. This is the thematically consistent conclusion to his films.
    Hallelujah Brother!
    Feyador wrote: »
    I don't see the Craig movies as "subversion" but rather as a fascinating reiteration of a character we all thought we knew, perhaps too well, if only because the brushstrokes in presenting him both onscreen and in print were so few or so broad. Craig has literally fleshed out the Bond character, just as others may reinterpret him in the future.

    It might have been nice if Bond had found some happiness along the way, but of course in the Craig context, therein lies Bond’s tragic flaw. And then, the same thing that made him a superbly efficient state-sanctioned killer (half monk, half hitman) was never going to make him fit comfortably into any life of domesticity. Now that might have made for an interesting creative choice to explore, but hardly a heroic one.

    Half Monk???

    Well, maybe there's a God above
    As for me all I've ever learned from love
    Is how to shoot somebody who outdrew you
    But it's not a crime that you're hear tonight
    It's not some pilgrim who claims to have seen the Light
    No, it's a cold and it's a very broken Hallelujah

    Now I've done my best, I know it wasn't much
    I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
    I've told the truth, I didnt come here to London just to fool you
    And even though it all went wrong
    I'll stand right here before the Lord of song
    With nothing, nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah

    eyJidWNrZXQiOiJwdWItc3RvcmFnZSIsImtleSI6ImdvbGlhdGgvd3AtY29udGVudC91cGxvYWRzLzIwMjAvMDMvRWxpemFiZXRoLTE1LmpwZyIsImVkaXRzIjp7InJlc2l6ZSI6eyJ3aWR0aCI6MzUyLCJoZWlnaHQiOjIzNCwiZml0IjoiY292ZXIiLCJiYWNrZ3JvdW5kIjp7InIiOjAsImciOjAsImIiOjAsImFscGhhIjoxfSwicG9zaXRpb24iOiJ0b3AifX19
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,276
    CountJohn wrote: »
    @CountJohn personally I'd say that's another case of blaming the actor for something that wasn't their fault. Safin was a half-baked villain, for sure (like Blofeld before him in Spectre), but I think he did well with the material given to him (like Waltz before him in Spectre). Where improvement needed, was writing.
    With a few rare exceptions like Silva all Bond villains are underwritten and it's up to the actor to make the character with the performance.
    This!

    The Craig years will not be remembered for having great villains, Earlier, when James Bond wasn't a character study, colorful villains and henchmen were plenty (like the gadgets), they usually had more scenes, were better scripted and had memorable one-liners (Drax as a perfect example). It certainly doesn't help that the villains from CR and on, all had to be connected to the same "master plan", but not by pre-prepared grand design where they think one, two or even three movies ahead, but by trying to connect dots from earlier movies.

    Because of this, for me, the best villain during the Craig years is Mr. White.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,185
    I would not underestimate Le Chiffre and Silva as two of the better villains of the series.
  • Posts: 7,507
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I guess if the film has really upset you because it's a very sad ending, it's okay to react in a slightly OTT way and hopefully he'll cool down soon.
    After all, there were lots of people a year or two ago who said that having any other character (and her race and gender definitely had nothing to do with it) known as 007 was just too much and they wouldn't accept it, and yet I haven't seen anyone saying that the film was unwatchable because of that or that they walked out when it was confirmed in the movie. People just calm down and get used to these things with time.


    I didn't like the ending. It was sad because Bond died, of course, but I think I was more sad or annoyed because I felt disconnected from the film. To provide a random example, it is as if the filmmakers had had the idea to have Bond go undercover into a farm dressed as a cow.

    You may just have given EON the idea for B26 s PTS. Just think of the awesome reveal!

    Haha! "Ms. Goodthighs? I'm with Her Majesty's government. I've come to rescue you. Check my udder. You'll find a radio in my left teat and a dart gun on the right. No, the other right; the one you're touching contains highly corrosive acid."

    - "The one you're touching now is all yours... but only after the mission is done!"
  • Posts: 7,507
    pachazo wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I think there is going to be some confusion on the part of the general public. I had to have a conversation with my girlfriend after the movie about how there can be another James Bind movie if he's dead. She has watched all the films with me (some more than once, she's a great sport, love her) but she still didn't get it. Anyone else have this problem with friends or family members who aren't as into it as us?

    Not at all. I have watched it with different friends who are more casually into the films as well as my mother. They all took it as a given that they would make more Bond films. It was not a matter of discussion. My Mother had this interesting interpretation: - "It was the logical choice, as we have now grown so fond of Craig's Bond that the only way we would accept that they replace him in the role is if they kill the character off!"
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Your mother is much, much wiser than five or so people presently posting on this site.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Bond is dead. Long live Bond.

    I am truly astonished to read so many harsh comments regarding the film's ending. No more Bond! They killed the franchise! The continuity is all messed up! I can't watch CR anymore!
    Wow... It is the crime of the century, it is. 😒

    Bond 26 will be such a soothing experience.
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